Tranix Camp defined

[Elements]

Spitty - ty, your post was well thought out and informative.

SAKURAGI (cause you'll never be splorf or loraen to me) - i understand where you are coming from, and i think the current rules as they are laid out in the "camps, defined" thread are so unbelievably easy to abuse that i kind of hate the fact that they are there at all. That's why, as Nirgon stated, we're allowed to make our own calls at our own discretion based on the situation. I cannot tell you how many times i've had people try to bullshit lawyer me into making a silly decision based on that thread.

In case you guys didn't notice, I'm trying to get input on how situations like crypt should be handled moving forward, and what the best way to clearly define that is to the community. In the end, we still have the final call when we're petitioned to come into a dispute, but I wanted input from you guys on how to make those situations more clear so you DONT have to call ina GM.

Also, and you can quote me on this because we were just talking about it, in order to camp King Tranix you have to keep the fire giants cleared. You can't just FD a monk on top of tranix till he pops and call it 'camped'.

Going to take a few more opinions from you guys on this and then lock the thread.

Again - if you were to create a rule on the seb crypt, how would you word it, where would it apply (IE, just the crypt, or other camps as well?) and when?

thx guys


Was this a well played troll? or srs?

[zanderklocke]

I'm assuming that he's just referring to the fire giants in the room that Tranix is in. Otherwise that wouldn't make any sense.

[Reiker000]

Bad clarification of a camp, just like his crypt clarification that started the whole thing.

If I'm a shaman camping Trannix, I don't understand why I can't just sit in his room and wait for him to pop and then kill him, just like every other mob in the game. Why would I have to waste my time going around clearing other trash mobs I don't care about? And to go further, how many fire giants have to be cleared? Which fire giants have to be cleared?

I don't know about this Derubael guy. His logic behind stuff seems dubious at best.

[hatelore]

Seems pretty retarded, I agree. Thats setting it up as if the entire encounter from the first 2 fire giants at the entrance until the last fire giants near naggy lair are all one big event.

Does this mean we just walk in, /ooc " fire giants camped" and expect to just have the entire area or what?

[zanderklocke]

What post is everyone talking about... I don't see it in the forums.

[zanderklocke]

and by post I mean thread about the crypt camp defined.

[Tasslehofp99]

Since I started here tranix has gone from being an FTE mob, to whoever killed the first fire giant has the entire area as their camp, to a literal camp you can claim, back to FTE mob, back to killing 1st giant gives u the camp, back to it being a camp you can claim...honestly this is the dumbest shit ever.


Just make every mob in every zone FTE and be done with it. If a mob is up and unengaged, it was free game on live 100% of the time. Why do we have to make things extra hard on ourselves with all this petty rule changing every other week.

[Derubael]

the fire giants in the throne room. and you still have to be in the room.

why would you need to clear fire giants not in that room?

[Reiker000]

the fire giants in the throne room. and you still have to be in the room.

why would you need to clear fire giants not in that room?

Because it seems really silly to specify that you have to kill any fire giants to lay claim to Trannix if you're not referring to the ones outside the room.

[Derubael]

Because it seems really silly to specify that you have to kill any fire giants to lay claim to Trannix if you're not referring to the ones outside the room.

apparently not, because someone fd'd on tranix's spawn and left the giants up the other night and thought he had a claim to the camp.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I guess this goes to show, don't bring an ox to a horse race unless you want to spend all day trying to convince the event organizers it would be much more fun to reenact a pre-industrial age tractor pull

[Tasslehofp99]

Rofl sadre!

Anyway most simple solution to this is just making every mob in game FTE with the exception of spawned epic mobs or whatever. This is the only way, and how it was on live.

[Elements]

Rofl sadre!

Anyway most simple solution to this is just making every mob in game FTE with the exception of spawned epic mobs or whatever. This is the only way, and how it was on live.

This was how we were happy to approach it even after having cleared the giants and been at the camp for hours, yet Der decided today we get to roll for hte cmap with IB that just showed up...

[Derubael]

This was how we were happy to approach it even after having cleared the giants and been at the camp for hours, yet Der decided today we get to roll for hte cmap with IB that just showed up...

Now you've pissed me off and are full of shit, and I have no sympathy that you lost the camp.

I showed up and asked your two groups to reach an amicable decision for both of you. I specifically stated that if you couldn't reach an agreement, nobody would like the call I made. The IB group offered you either FTE or /ran to decide the camp multiple times, and your group (I'm going to assume you are grundlegore, whether or not that's true, he was speaking for your group) essentially told them to politely fuckoff.

[Fri Dec 06 18:15:06 2013] Grundlegore says, 'I mean IB is fine just watching us kill tranix Im cool with that'

This is the last thing your group said after I asked if you guys were unable to reach your own decision, as in, you were ready for me to mediate your dispute. If you were "happy to approach the situation this way" you would have accepted IB's offer of going with FTE.

I'd also like to cut you off before you go putting more words in my mouth like you were trying to do earlier and state that this is NOT how all camps are to be decided. This is how THIS camp in THIS situation was handled because I had nothing to prove that either of you were there and holding the camp prior to me arriving to mediate. You were both telling me a different story, so I let it go to random chance.

Stop crying about how the "big bad dum gm deru" fucked you over and try to work shit out on your own like a respectable human being next time, thanks.

[arsenalpow]

the rule was implemented due to your TMO pal ferocity laying FD at the tranix camp off and on and doing nothing to hold the camp. Our hero slowscales proceeded to kill the FG's around tranix because you know a shaman can actually solo the camp, then a TMO cleric showed up 3 minutes before tranix spawned and demanded that since ferocity had been lurking that it's his camp even though he did nothing to maintain the camp

your guild made it's bed, now sleep in it

[Tasslehofp99]

Funny how TMO shits the server up so much then cries when they get fucked. Seriously seen this with like so many other situations with them its a joke.

[Reguiy]

So a monk sat on spawn with literally no backup and expected to keep camp? Riiiight. Glad we got this settled. NEXT!

[arsenalpow]

So a monk sat on spawn with literally no backup and expected to keep camp? Riiiight. Glad we got this settled. NEXT!

well his backup showed up 3 minutes before tranix spawn, plus he wasn't even there the entire time, he'd be FD watching our guy clear the giants, then he'd LD, then come back and stalk some more

if tranix had spawned, he couldn't have held the camp without a metric ton of clickies, people can't act like fucking adults though, that's why derub makes rules like this, the people brought it on themselves

[Alarti0001]

Can a monk kill Tranix solo with 6 charges of Complete heal? Never tried, so no idea!

[Tasslehofp99]

Can a monk kill Tranix solo with 6 charges of Complete heal? Never tried, so no idea!

Yes, with a slowstone/tash stick with ease.

[Tasslehofp99]

Should just be FTE wins for every mob in every zone with stalling, kiting, and training resulting in suspensions of a month.

[Reguiy]

Should just be FTE wins for every mob in every zone with stalling, kiting, and training resulting in suspensions of a month.

Should just be whoever gets XP. No GM rulings required. I'm sure the staff is on board.

[Tasslehofp99]

Nah because that just encourages killstealing which was always against the rules in everquest.

[Reguiy]

FTE on every mob would be absolutely retarded. Shamans and enchanters who live in NY would just run around norrath taking literally everything because they have 40 ping.

[Elements]

Now you've pissed me off and are full of shit, and I have no sympathy that you lost the camp.

I showed up and asked your two groups to reach an amicable decision for both of you. I specifically stated that if you couldn't reach an agreement, nobody would like the call I made. The IB group offered you either FTE or /ran to decide the camp multiple times, and your group (I'm going to assume you are grundlegore, whether or not that's true, he was speaking for your group) essentially told them to politely fuckoff.

[Fri Dec 06 18:15:06 2013] Grundlegore says, 'I mean IB is fine just watching us kill tranix Im cool with that'

This is the last thing your group said after I asked if you guys were unable to reach your own decision, as in, you were ready for me to mediate your dispute. If you were "happy to approach the situation this way" you would have accepted IB's offer of going with FTE.

I'd also like to cut you off before you go putting more words in my mouth like you were trying to do earlier and state that this is NOT how all camps are to be decided. This is how THIS camp in THIS situation was handled because I had nothing to prove that either of you were there and holding the camp prior to me arriving to mediate. You were both telling me a different story, so I let it go to random chance.

Stop crying about how the "big bad dum gm deru" fucked you over and try to work shit out on your own like a respectable human being next time, thanks.

So group that has no legitimate claim to the camp gets A: chance to win it through roll, or B: chance to win it through FTE, while group with legitimate claim is screwed either way. Its not so much the call you made but the total lack of consistency not even week to week or month to month but literally hour to hour as you just explained this rule earlier in the day in a now locked thread. You say you have no proof either way yet if you really want I can go dig up my logs where you say in game you can see that our group was killing FGs and they IB were not. What more proof is needed? Seriously. Put yourself in the players shoes for a minute, what are we supposed to think? It seems like every situation is just going to be a crap shoot.

So are you setting precedence that if this same group of IB want to try and bully their way into a camp in the future they can just show up and cause a stink, petition, and roll for the camp to usurp it from people playing by rules that you have previously set? What?

I didn't ask you to mediate anything. And you both acknowledged that you have the information needed to make a ruling based on the rule that you made and then chose to ignore it and make up something completely different. Are you seriously going to sit here and lie that you didnt have logs of TMO killing FGs prior to the pop and that you didn't say that in game? Seriously?

[Reiker000]

FTE on every mob would be absolutely retarded. Shamans and enchanters who live in NY would just run around norrath taking literally everything because they have 40 ping.

I'm a shaman who lives in NY with 40 ping. FTE pls.

[Elements]

[Fri Dec 06 20:14:46 2013] Derubael says, 'So for the record, the only people i have killing any fire giants in this room in the last few hours are the tmo group, not a single IB/FE on the encounter logs in this room'


k thx.

[Derubael]

Remember that PM I sent you after I deleted your threads putting words in my mouth?

You had 1 throne room FG on the encounter log. That FG spawned and died less than a minute prior to receiving the IB petition regarding the camp. This proves exactly nothing, except that both of you were there.

Furthermore, you even admit to have left the room, and that it was indeed empty of players before IB arriving. If anything, you shouldn't have any rights to the camp at all because you weren't there. The only reason I didn't straight up boot you out is on the off chance you guys HAD been there sitting in the room before IB got there, and decided to step out for a few moments before IB arrived.

I have no idea who was in that room first, and I have no idea how long they were there before someone else arrived. That's why I encouraged you all to find your own solution.

Not every situation will be handled with a roll or FTE. I could just opt to boot you both out, or make you both stay and share the loot IF I can't determine who was at the camp first and holding it. Sometimes we can, sometimes we can't. You had the opportunity to solve this on your own by reaching an agreement between your two groups and didn't.

and btw,

Are you seriously going to sit here and lie that you didnt have logs of TMO killing FGs prior to the pop and that you didn't say that in game? Seriously?

Please point me to where I said there were no TMO kills on the encounter log in the throne room.

Yes, as stated above, there was one FG that was killed in the throne room. This is consistent with the statement I made in game. "Killing any fire giants" could imply one or many.

the only people i have killing any fire giants in this room in the last few hours are the tmo group, not a single IB/FE on the encounter logs in this room'

Call me a liar again. I dare you.

[Elements]

Now you've pissed me off and are full of shit, and I have no sympathy that you lost the camp.

I showed up and asked your two groups to reach an amicable decision for both of you. I specifically stated that if you couldn't reach an agreement, nobody would like the call I made. The IB group offered you either FTE or /ran to decide the camp multiple times, and your group (I'm going to assume you are grundlegore, whether or not that's true, he was speaking for your group) essentially told them to politely fuckoff.

[Fri Dec 06 18:15:06 2013] Grundlegore says, 'I mean IB is fine just watching us kill tranix Im cool with that'

This is the last thing your group said after I asked if you guys were unable to reach your own decision, as in, you were ready for me to mediate your dispute. If you were "happy to approach the situation this way" you would have accepted IB's offer of going with FTE.

I'd also like to cut you off before you go putting more words in my mouth like you were trying to do earlier and state that this is NOT how all camps are to be decided. This is how THIS camp in THIS situation was handled because I had nothing to prove that either of you were there and holding the camp prior to me arriving to mediate. You were both telling me a different story, so I let it go to random chance.

Stop crying about how the "big bad dum gm deru" fucked you over and try to work shit out on your own like a respectable human being next time, thanks.

[Derubael]

You had 1 throne room FG on the encounter log. That FG spawned and died less than a minute prior to receiving the IB petition regarding the camp. This proves exactly nothing, except that both of you were there.

Reading comprehension is important.

I am done with this discussion, and you. Drop this issue and move on.

[Elements]

Remember that PM I sent you after I deleted your threads putting words in my mouth?

You had 1 throne room FG on the encounter log. That FG spawned and died less than a minute prior to receiving the IB petition regarding the camp. This proves exactly nothing, except that both of you were there.

Furthermore, you even admit to have left the room, and that it was indeed empty of players before arriving. If anything, you shouldn't have any rights to the camp at all because you weren't there. The only reason I didn't straight up boot you out is on the off chance you guys HAD been there sitting in the room before IB got there, and decided to step out for a few moments before IB arrived.

A: this is incoherant. B: when did I admit to leaving the room? we had a FG run earlier and we chased it out into the hall to kill it? does that qualify as abandoning your camp?

I have no idea who was in that room first, and I have no idea how long they were there before someone else arrived. That's why I encouraged you all to find your own solution.

Not every situation will be handled with a roll or FTE. I could just opt to boot you both out, or make you both stay and share the loot IF I can't determine who was at the camp first and holding it. Sometimes we can, sometimes we can't. You had the opportunity to solve this on your own by reaching an agreement between your two groups and didn't.


and btw,



Please point me to where I said there were no TMO kills on the encounter log in the throne room.

see above "no evidence"

Yes, as stated above, there was one FG that was killed in the throne room. This is consistent with the statement I made in game. "Killing any fire giants" could imply one or many.

I can't derive any relation between the above statement and how it points to throwing out a log with TMO killing FGs and opting for a roll for the camp.

Call me a liar again. I dare you.

If I had to guess I'd say you realized earlier in the crypt thread that you as a GM had the power to solve situations in creative ways and you were excited to exercise this new power to the point where you forgot/ignored/didn't care about the rule you stated the day before and hours before and this is the result.

In the end I came out ahead as I now know what to expect from you in the future.

[Derubael]

Hi, Elements. My name is Derubael, and if you haven't noticed, I've been exercising this "new power" to solve situations since August.

Now that we are acquainted, let me inform you that I couldn't care less what you expect from me in the future, but that its important to note that I've learned what kind of person you are.

[Fri Dec 06 18:07:37 2013] Grundlegore says, 'leapfrogging into a camp while poeple are clearing giants is lame...'

That would imply that your group wasn't in the camp when IB arrived. It's also not relevant here, because once again, I have no idea who was at that camp and staying at that camp prior to me arriving, which is why I gave your group a shot at the camp.

Lastly,

Lets get one thing straight folks. We don't answer to you.

Locking thread.