Players will always compete for raid mobs; the point of contention is the rules [Archive] - Page 2

radditsu

08-06-2013, 08:50 PM

It has been well-established that the "training" that happens in VP is largely due to pathing problems in the zone.

It has nothing to do with the pathing of the zone. It is a team intentionally pulling mobs on top of others. Both ways mind you. The only real issues with pathing are large monsters and some things at the entrance. All dragons can be single pulled due to intentionally warping through the walls. These dragons can be trained through the top of the world onto "safe ledges" that an ex gm stated that should not have monsters pulled and killed on. Also mobs will be killed until see invis variants pop, and intentionally leaving swarms (5x to 10x spawns on top of each other for easy train fodder.

I hope that informs you before you open your mouth again. Thanks!

Orruar

08-06-2013, 11:41 PM

My point was not about people breaking rules. It was about people not wanting their pixels badly enough to get that much better.

Getting better != getting more pixels. In the current environment, getting more pixels requires a substantial downgrade in overall life happiness. Most refuse (rightly) to take this path, and instead wish to change the environment of the server to allow both increased pixels and increased enjoyment. I know the brain-damaged psychopath community obtains more enjoyment from the current state of affairs, but I'm not sure we should be concerned with appeasing those who exist in the layers of feces at the bottom of the gene pool.

Orruar

08-06-2013, 11:42 PM

miss u orruar

Miss you too, my anonymous brother.

Gnomersy

08-07-2013, 09:18 AM

The current rule set leads to harassment. Harassment leads to foggotry. Won't be long before a team of trainers not involved with any VP capable guilds shows up to ruin your raids on a regular basis. Step back be OBJECTIVE AND NON BIAS and honestly think about the situation as a player of any game. Intentionally fucking up a whole group of peoples raid shouldn't be a mechanic that's not against the rules. In the end training other people makes you a cock block, if you venture out into the real world occasionally you would know EVERYONE HATES COCKBLOCKS.

webrunner5

08-07-2013, 09:31 AM

And like COCKBLOCKS never happened on Live. People have very short memories. :eek:

radditsu

08-07-2013, 09:33 AM

And like COCKBLOCKS never happened on Live. People have very short memories. :eek:

I know some guilds had ogre walls in the SSRA temple to prevent anyone from attacking mobs. Didn't make them any less banned when found out about it.

Uggme

08-07-2013, 09:45 AM

Jesus, Webrunner. Do you ever post anything positive? You're seriously the grumpiest old man I've seen on these forums.

Midlife crisis got ya down? Based on your post count and join date do you even realize you've made an average of 3 posts per day, all of which are negative and whiny drivel? I rounded up to accomodate for posts in RnF.

Someone needs an attitude adjustment. But then again, it's pretty hard to teach and old dog new tricks. Maybe you just need to step away from the computer and come back when you've made some improvements to your attitude.

What people on this thread are proposing is to bring some structure back to VP for everyone. We all know cockblocking can't be stopped entirely. However, by implementing a set of fair and 'normal' rules for VP you can begin to reign in the nonsense that already takes place in there.

Gnomersy

08-07-2013, 09:49 AM

And like COCKBLOCKS never happened on Live. People have very short memories. :eek:

Why does everyone reference live when it benefits their argument?? GMs have stated a hundred billion times this emu has its own set of rules loosely based on live rules.
For the sake of argument no, no one cock blocked on emarr we had a schedule between the top 3 guilds and we stuck to it, even threw some underling guilds a bone occasionally when we were bored/uninterested.

FenninEQaddict

08-07-2013, 11:52 AM

This thread... And the 50 others in past month all follow a common line. They start out saying they dont want drama and arent targetting anyone specifically then they immediately attack either the GMs because they arent changing things to the way the poster wants or TMO/FE/IB. Dont say you dont want drama knowing that the thread you are starting follows similar lines of so many before.

The GMs are doing what they are doing for themselves and their friends. The fact that you have fun is secondary in the end. Yes they want more players but it isnt specifically for you. It isnt like your paying a subscription to play. Dont bash them in threads or attack them for not fixing what you want fixed immediately and then expect them to make changes or care about your opinions.

Im sure they would appreciate another impartial fair GM to help with some of the work load. Now in the mystical land of fairytale there are such people but here in P99 land thats probably pretty hard to find.

The guilds like TMO are on top not through favoritism but through hard work. IB was on top and seems to be coming back as they are getting alot of the mobs they are competing with TMO for. Dont say its an impossible fight to beat TMO. Step up grow a pair and start fighting them for what you want. Oh and people at the top are always hated so will you next start attacking the guild that unseats TMO or will you rejoice and suddenly go silent?

VP from what I can tell takes no effort to actually train mobs on people TMO from what I know TMO is better at training themselves than FE ever was at training them and thats unintentional. So there is no way you could safely say that trains wouldnt happen there. This would just be another nightmare for GMs to deal with. Though it would be fun to watch the twitch tv stream of it if Sirken would run it along with the petitions that would come along.

Tasslehof arent you tagged TMO now why the hate for them I swear I saw you tagged and a bunch of corpses in KC the other night. I hear Merkk is apping TMO so it seems there are some who have realized that there is a third option over forcing change or creating a stronger raid force or raid co op. If you cant beat them or force them to change then join them.

Nirgon

08-07-2013, 12:26 PM

You either enjoy racing to raid mobs or competing from them or you don't like the EQ raid scene.

The problem here is the length of Kunark and how many players are lvl 60 with all content completed aside from raid gearing numerous alts.

At least you can buy raid loot here, and its easy to find if you have the plat.

I mean, shit, you can sell 2 fungis and buy 3 cleric epics or some shit here.

fastboy21

08-07-2013, 12:32 PM

Its not like this is a new game...

This server isn't about improving EQ, those were valid discussions 13 years ago.

If you want some kind of server token system I suggest you try another server (I believe this is exactly what Toop does on his server, btw).

Vaildez

08-07-2013, 01:16 PM

Why does everyone reference live when it benefits their argument?? GMs have stated a hundred billion times this emu has its own set of rules loosely based on live rules.
For the sake of argument no, no one cock blocked on emarr we had a schedule between the top 3 guilds and we stuck to it, even threw some underling guilds a bone occasionally when we were bored/uninterested.

I definitely remembered this on Emarr.. As a result of not being douche bags in end game raiding they were mostly respected.

Orruar

08-08-2013, 01:25 PM

If you refuse (rightly or not) to take the only path currently available to you, then you don't want your pixels badly enough. If you want things to change, campaign productively. Whining about how much you don't like the way things are will only disenfranchise people with any ability to help make the change and entice other people to just make fun of you.

Every single one of your insults WEAKENS YOUR POSITION AND THAT OF EVERY PERSON WHO AGREES WITH YOU. There have been several people who have made positive, calm, rational arguments for alternative solutions WITHOUT complaining about hurt feelings or things being more difficult than what they are willing to accept. I applaud those people. Why can't you learn from them?

Your posts have been quite contradictory. First you take the stance that people don't want pixels badly enough and they should just try harder in game. Your very first post on this topic stated "Look, the bottom line here is that this is a people problem, not a rules problem." Then you go on to say how people just need to try harder to win within the current rules. Now you are saying trying to change the rules is ok, but only if you do it productively, which is exactly the point of this entire thread. Loraen has been quite productive in his threads on this topic. Your responses that essentially boil down to "you don't love pixels enough" have been anything but productive.

Your second paragraph begins with a rather bizarre claim, and then takes a turn into strawman country. As it was written by a person who has a brain that produces self-contradictory material in rapid succession, I'll take it all as a compliment.

And if you get upset at my insults towards the bottom-feeding community of this server, it leads me to believe you are a part of this community, or at least you see yourself as a bottom-feeder. Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you're a super person. The ability to think rationally and clearly is not for everyone. We all have our own strengths and I'm sure you'll find yours.

Orruar

08-08-2013, 01:29 PM

And btw, my insults are not meant as a means of affecting a change of the rules. They are meant to shame the individuals who have led the raiding game on this server to where it is today. Your apparent anger over this leads me to believe that I'm being effective. When people feel shame, they often get angry, then hopefully they learn to avoid the behaviors that led to the shame in the first place.

Gnomersy

08-08-2013, 01:48 PM

^behavioral modification 101

Nietche

08-08-2013, 01:48 PM

They are meant to shame the individuals who have led the raiding game on this server to where it is today.

Any guild on a server such as this one would have ended up being hated for the same reasons, had they been successful at consistently killing dragons.

One part of this game which no one in this thread has mentioned (maybe Tassiepants did, but I skimmed his novella) is that it takes gear upgrades to kill bigger and badder dragons and thus stay ahead of your competition who want the same pixels.

Because this isn't WoW (thank God), there is nothing to stop top guilds from trying to corner the market (dragons) in order to maximize the necessary, upgraded pixels which get awarded to the toons used to kill the bad ass dragons (in VP). In fact, the necessity for toons to have upgraded pixels to kill the bad ass dragons incentivizes the need to corner the market on dragon kills in order to (1) get there at all; to (2) get there first; and to (3) stay there.

TL;DR: If you don't understand how the machination of competition works to perpetuate success and failure and their epiphenomenal feelings of hatred, fear, respect, and so on, please join your local (pick a sport) league. It's just the way it is, unless you're a "principle of utility" fanatic, which almost no one is on this server.

Ele

08-08-2013, 01:51 PM

Any guild on a server such as this one would have ended up being hated for the same reasons, had they been successful at consistently killing dragons.

If it ended at consistently killing dragons, then it would be what it is. However, going above and beyond that with unsportsmanlike tactics of training, leapfrogging, kiting, and griefing are among the points of contention here.

Nietche

08-08-2013, 01:58 PM

If it ended at consistently killing dragons, then it would be what it is. However, going above and beyond that with unsportsmanlike tactics of training, leapfrogging, kiting, and griefing are among the points of contention here.

Ok, on topic:

The only reason why training is unsportsmanlike in VP is because we can't PvP. To me, it's more unsportsmanlike to use the environment to kill someone when PvP is enabled than when the converse is true (such as it is on p99 blue).

Gnomersy

08-08-2013, 02:04 PM

Ele

08-08-2013, 02:08 PM

Ok, on topic:

The only reason why training is unsportsmanlike in VP is because we can't PvP. To me, it's more unsportsmanlike to use the environment to kill someone when PvP is enabled than when the converse is true (such as it is on p99 blue).

Are you serious? At least when PvP is enabled people expect to be killed by other people in some form. People don't roll blue to get griefed or killed by other people unless they consent to a duel.

Khaleesi

08-08-2013, 02:08 PM

Ok, on topic:

The only reason why training is unsportsmanlike in VP is because we can't PvP. To me, it's more unsportsmanlike to use the environment to kill someone when PvP is enabled than when the converse is true (such as it is on p99 blue).

The reason it's unsportsmanlike, is because it's ... -wait for it ...are you sitting down.. prepare your self - ... it's UNSPORTSMANLIKE, period.

If this point is in contention, clearly people need to goto Red and see what happens when you try to train during raids. Surely if they want it bad enough (apparently the formula for success), then they could have it within weeks.
So why aren't more people on Red, oh wait... I forgot, PVP.

Splorf22

08-08-2013, 02:20 PM

TL;DR: If you don't understand how the machination of competition works to perpetuate success and failure and their epiphenomenal feelings of hatred, fear, respect, and so on, please join your local (pick a sport) league. It's just the way it is, unless you're a "principle of utility" fanatic, which almost no one is on this server.

Yes, clearly playing basketball involves watching the court for 96 hours before your opponent finally shows up at 4AM, at which point you text all your friends to grab their high-tops and jerseys and head to the gym.

Splorf22

08-08-2013, 02:22 PM

Any guild on a server such as this one would have ended up being hated for the same reasons, had they been successful at consistently killing dragons.

Also, you may find this difficult to believe, but I don't hate TMO. What I despise is the form of competition that occurs under rules with variance.

Nietche

08-08-2013, 02:33 PM

The only flaw to your cornering the market analogy is in every market there rules both written and unwritten that will get you blackballed/jail time if broken. The difference between real world markets and this "market" is you can lobby(buy politicians) to change the rules to be more fair or less however you see fit. Here only QQing and requests to Rogean (god in this case) can change the rules, or so I assume. I'm just a naive gnome though so maybe there are other channels to bring about change.

Hooray for logic and sound arguments /applaud for you nietche!

How is my market analogy flawed when you stated that "all markets" have inherent rules which, if broken, result in some repercussion? Is that not the case in p99 blue as well?

Did I need to explicitly state the disclaimer: Oh, by the way, like all other markets in the real world, the p99 market also has rules which, if broken, will result in some sort of repercussion?

Really?

P.S. You can lobby here too.

Orruar

08-08-2013, 02:38 PM

Also, you may find this difficult to believe, but I don't hate TMO. What I despise is the form of competition that occurs under rules with variance.

And this is where we diverge in our view. I fault both the system and the people. I don't think people are automatons that will just attempt to game the system no matter what system is in place. You can have a totally fucked up system, but the people could still make a good place to be. A gentleman's agreement or even rotation could have been established long ago, but instead the politics of envy and greed won out. That being said, the system in place does have an effect on the type of people who are willing to be a part of it, as well as the behavior of the people within the system. So changing the system will influence the types of behaviors we're likely to see from the community, and I hope they improve this aspect of the server before Velious is released. It would be a shame to see the same faggotry spread to ToV and Kael.

Nietche

08-08-2013, 02:46 PM

Are you serious? At least when PvP is enabled people expect to be killed by other people in some form. People don't roll blue to get griefed or killed by other people unless they consent to a duel.

I don't think you read what I stated well.

To me, it's more unsportsmanlike to use the environment to kill someone when PvP is enabled than when the converse is true (such as it is on p99 blue).

Environment = the "E" in PvE
PvP = Player versus Player

So when I say "use the environment," I'm talking about bugs, exploits, and--the topic of this thread--training.

My argument is that when PvP is enabled--meaning that people can attack other people without resorting to "PvE tactics" (like training), it is more unsportsmantlike to resort to said training than when PvP is not possible (like p99 blue). In other words, PvP'ers who resort to training to kill other people rather than "hand to hand combat" are going to get the "unsportsmanlike conduct flag" every time. No one (not even the culprit) is going to argue the flag, even when training is technically legal such as in VP. Period.

In PvE, it's a different story, and I will submit the argument (again) that the reason why the area is grayer on a blue server is because there are no alternatives to training in killing someone for a particular reason. So in a zone like VP from where Rogean and staff pretty much stay away (in the case of training), it's not likely that 100% of the population is going to come away from the act of "training" thinking that it was unsportsmanlike.

This is not to say that I think "training" is ok in either scenario, but there is a definite continuum to weigh in on; and I don't sit on either of the absolutes.

I will submit that the part of the quote (below), given my above points, consists of a fallacy, which in particular deals with the modus tollens part of the argument (and I should have added the bracketed verb as well). I should have stated that, on p99 red, the question of training in VP being unsportsmanlike is pretty close to 100% "yes." On blue, it's questionable (in VP).

The only reason why training is [considered] unsportsmanlike in VP is because we can't PvP.

Nietche

08-08-2013, 02:51 PM

Yes, clearly playing basketball involves watching the court for 96 hours before your opponent finally shows up at 4AM, at which point you text all your friends to grab their high-tops and jerseys and head to the gym.

Wat?

I'm talking about the reasons for why guilds try to corner the market on dragons. Tracking is a part of that, just like sitting and watching (pick a number) hours of video prepares a pitcher for the next baseball game. Both cases require prepatory work (tracking vs. watching video), and both require dedication and an attempt to corner the market on "winning."

falkun

08-08-2013, 04:37 PM

How is my market analogy flawed when you stated that "all markets" have inherent rules which, if broken, result in some repercussion? Is that not the case in p99 blue as well?

Did I need to explicitly state the disclaimer: Oh, by the way, like all other markets in the real world, the p99 market also has rules which, if broken, will result in some sort of repercussion?

Really?

P.S. You can lobby here too.

No that's not the case. The longest suspension ever levied on this server is two weeks. Jail time for white collar crimes against the big corporations is multitudes of years. Even permanent bans can last less than a year on P99. I believe the last time Sericx was suspended for training Ragefire was one week, even though he trained multiple times on a single Ragefire, and its his third or fourth suspension (no 3-strike system on P99). P99 punishments are lip-wristed compared to the real world, and that's part of the problem.

Orruar

08-08-2013, 04:52 PM

I'm not angry at all. You, however, seem to be pretty upset, given your approach of attacking the messenger when you can't form a solid counter to the message.

In order to be considered an attack on a messenger, you'd have to be carrying an actual message. As your brain is simply spewing various random and contradictory statements, attacking you isn't really attacking a messenger.

Splorf22

08-08-2013, 04:56 PM

Wat?

I'm talking about the reasons for why guilds try to corner the market on dragons. Tracking is a part of that, just like sitting and watching (pick a number) hours of video prepares a pitcher for the next baseball game. Both cases require prepatory work (tracking vs. watching video), and both require dedication and an attempt to corner the market on "winning."

Your analogy is very bad.

1. It is not necessary to watch film to pitch baseballs, or even to pitch baseballs well

2. Watching film of baseball is approximately a million times more interesting than watching the tracking window

3. Tracking is an artifact of a non-classic rule change. Film analysis is not.

Let me give you a better analogy. In basketball in the 1950s, there was no shot clock. Teams would spend 10 minutes at the end of a game playing keepaway. Did the NBA scream "get better you uncompetitive slugs!" at their teams? No, they implemented a shot clock.

Nietche

08-09-2013, 11:01 AM

Your analogy is very bad.

1. It is not necessary to watch film to pitch baseballs, or even to pitch baseballs well

You don't know baseball then. Pitchers watch hours and hours of film before a game to know what pitching sequence he's going to give to each batter.

Raavak

08-09-2013, 11:07 AM

Well, some do. Some catchers call the game still. And even more often these days, someone in the dugout.

But your point is correct.

Nietche

08-09-2013, 11:18 AM

Well, some do. Some catchers call the game still. And even more often these days, someone in the dugout.

But your point is correct.

I'll qualify. "Good" pitchers do.

Splorf22

08-09-2013, 11:54 AM

You don't know baseball then. Pitchers watch hours and hours of film before a game to know what pitching sequence he's going to give to each batter.

99.99% of all people who play baseball do not watch film, just like the vast majority of the people who play here do not want to do so as a full time job.

Nietche

08-09-2013, 12:07 PM

99.99% of all people who play baseball do not watch film.

You're wrong.

Splorf22

08-09-2013, 01:08 PM

You're wrong.

I'm sure the thousands of kids in cuba playing baseball watch hundreds of hours of film.

TBH I think you should just be banned from ever using analogies.

Orruar

08-09-2013, 01:15 PM

He's not wrong if he's talking about little league, but that brings us right back around to the caliber of people we're talking about here.

"caliber" does not belong in a sentence referring to the player base of P99

Ele

08-09-2013, 01:36 PM

cal·i·ber
[kal-uh-ber] Show IPA

noun
1. the diameter of something of circular section, especially that of the inside of a tube: a pipe of three-inch caliber.
2. Ordnance . the diameter of the bore of a gun taken as a unit of measurement.
3. degree of capacity or competence; ability: a mathematician of high caliber.
4. degree of merit or excellence; quality: the high moral caliber of the era.

You are using #3 and he appears to be referencing #4.

Splorf22

08-09-2013, 01:55 PM

cal·i·ber
[kal-uh-ber] Show IPA

noun
1. the diameter of something of circular section, especially that of the inside of a tube: a pipe of three-inch caliber.
2. Ordnance . the diameter of the bore of a gun taken as a unit of measurement.
3. degree of capacity or competence; ability: a mathematician of high caliber.
4. degree of merit or excellence; quality: the high moral caliber of the era.

If you substitute the words competence or ability into his sentence both make perfect sense.

P.S. I HAVE HIGH CALIBER ORRUAR DAMN YOU

Orruar

08-09-2013, 02:09 PM

That's perfectly fine.

I don't mind having a difference of opinion. It's his insistence that #3 is invalid because he prefers #4 that deteriorates his position.

What the hell are you talking about? I did not specify which definition of the word I meant, and Loraen already pointed out the flaw in your preferred definition. Your brain is seriously damaged. If you were HAL-9000, I'd be pressing translucent rectangles in an attempt to fix the problem.

Orruar

08-09-2013, 02:12 PM

If you substitute the words competence or ability into his sentence both make perfect sense.

P.S. I HAVE HIGH CALIBER ORRUAR DAMN YOU

I don't consider you part of the player base, more like the player roof. Though I'm sure dictionary-boy will fight over the definition of player base.

Orruar

08-09-2013, 02:48 PM

Why are you so angry about your own forumquest undertaking? Relax guy. You need a rest.

Don't mistake what I say as anger. It is utter astonishment at how much closer we're getting to the world of Idiocracy every day.

Spitty

08-09-2013, 02:53 PM

The Idiot Defense - you have identified my flaws, therefore you must be mad.

I am saddened that we live in a world where pointing out the stupid is automatically read as an angry gesture.

Nietche

08-09-2013, 03:05 PM

He's not wrong if he's talking about little league, but that brings us right back around to the caliber of people we're talking about here.

I honestly hope he's not thinking little league because if that's the case, he's a bigger idiot than I thought.

Nietche

08-09-2013, 03:07 PM

I'm sure the thousands of kids in cuba playing baseball watch hundreds of hours of film.

TBH I think you should just be banned from ever using analogies.

You really should do your research before you post anything that is "real life" related.

Splorf22

08-09-2013, 03:10 PM

I honestly hope he's not thinking little league because if that's the case, he's a bigger idiot than I thought.

I honestly hope you are not suggesting that raiding on P1999 should require the same time expenditure as professional baseball, because if that's the case you are . . . pretty much what I expected.

Nietche

08-09-2013, 03:12 PM

Spitty

08-09-2013, 03:15 PM

Sorry, who are you and what do you have to do with my comment?

Spitty

08-09-2013, 03:24 PM

Some would say it's a righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent.

Not to derail the topic, but I was more commenting on how quickly the web population engages with the "you mad" when a disagreement is reached.

Orruar

08-09-2013, 03:32 PM

The Idiot Defense - you have identified my flaws, therefore you must be mad.

I am saddened that we live in a world where pointing out the stupid is automatically read as an angry gesture.

Indeed. It's unclear why the "umad" rebuttal is so widely used. It's not as if by making someone angry, you have somehow validated anything you have said.

Orruar

08-09-2013, 03:36 PM

He's not pointing out flaws, he's just calling me stupid because he doesn't understand the core of the matter which is that whining on the forums really isn't accomplishing anything.

It's a people problem. If you think that if you disagree with me I'm automatically stupid, you're part of the problem.

No no no, don't miread. I was certainly pointing out your flaws. Since you apparently have dictionary.com bookmarked, why don't you look up "contradiction" and consider how it might apply to your posts in this thread. Hint: Definition 3 is the one I am referring to.

kaev

08-09-2013, 03:41 PM

Indeed. It's unclear why the "umad" rebuttal is so widely used. It's not as if by making someone angry, you have somehow validated anything you have said.

umad is just itrollu spelt differently. Neither validates anything Both suggest that the poster lacks the ability to form a cogent argument on the topic.

Splorf22

08-09-2013, 03:43 PM

Nietche I already explained why your baseball analogy was terrible but obviously you didn't get it.

1. Practice is not NECESSARY to play sports. It is NECESSARY to track to raid on P1999.

2. Practicing sports is basically fun. Tracking is basically fucking stupid.

3. Tracking is the result of a stupid (and non-classic) rule change. I then gave an example of rule changes in basketball to make the game more fun.

Saying 'Tracking and its associated waste of time is valid on P1999 because pro sports require practice time' is like saying 'mice and whales both weigh the same because both are mammals'. In other words its fucking stupid.

Aaryonar

08-09-2013, 06:58 PM

Watching videos of a sport makes you better because you are watching people actually play it. Tracking is watching nothing, for long periods of time.

People watch baseball videos to get better at baseball by watching technique, much like an EQ player could get better at EQ by watching videos of other raid guilds raiding targets. People don't watch empty fields where no one is playing baseball, because they probably won't learn anything to better themselves, much like tracking teaches nothing about the game of everquest.

It is necessary to track on this server in order to get raid mobs, no doubt, but likening that to practice or watching the game being played is not an apt comparison. There are youtube vids of raid guilds killing targets, and you can warm up with chardok royals or ixiblat or something if you're looking to practice.

I don't really understand what you're not getting, Nietche.

If baseball's core ruleset meant that the first team on the field invariably won the most, and if these baseball games occurred randomly, people would probably sit around watching an empty field for the 20-40 hours before a game starts, waiting so they don't miss a baseball game that may or may not start in some predetermined time-range after the last game happened. If that was baseball, I bet most people would say it's a stupid game.

webrunner5

08-09-2013, 07:19 PM

Nothing wrong with tracking. When you are a "noob" in a high end guild guess what. You will be a tracking whore, batphone whore. You think you are going to get top gear and be the main tank in a week. Think if you are in the 5th or 6th top guild on here that you are going to get the "gold ring" every other week. Yeah right. God, half the people on here just think they ought to get everything for free. You people complaining are just crazy.

Aaryonar

08-09-2013, 07:27 PM

Not really disagreeing with tracking in general whatsoever. I think you'd see a bit of it even with variance removed, I've certainly done my fair share, and it's absolutely the only way to stay competitive with predictable variance windows.

I don't agree with current variance, but that's another conversation altogether. I'm just not really sure why nietche is defending such a poor analogy, that's all.

webrunner5

08-09-2013, 10:59 PM

Don't get me wrong. I know the raid scene here is a nightmare. And I can see why they do it. They have real lives and not the time to baby sit. But with the hands off attitude Nilbog, Rogean, Sirken has it is likely not to change until Velious comes out. And that will be a new pissing contest.

EQ has Always leaned toward the high end raiding guilds and you guys that have played for years know that. If you loose your Hardcore players your server goes to crap.

Nietche

08-10-2013, 02:49 AM

1. Practice is not NECESSARY to play sports.

Wat?

To play professional sports, if players don't practice, they don't play. Are you and Vianna from the same dodo bird planet?

Nietche

08-10-2013, 02:50 AM

I don't really understand what you're not getting, Nietche.

The point is what I've already said twice. Both baseball and Everquest, to be successful at either, requires time and effort--both falling under the umbrella of "preparation."

Sarius

08-10-2013, 02:56 AM

The point is what I've already said twice. Both baseball and Everquest, to be successful at either, requires time and effort--both falling under the umbrella of "preparation."

I don't think Loraen is talking about success, I think he is talking about fun. It's obvious what it takes to be successful at EQ, but i think the general population would agree the cost of that success is not fun.

I can suck at baseball but still have a fun time and a chance to play.

Just own up to your god awful analogy!

Nietche

08-10-2013, 03:04 AM

I don't think Loraen is talking about success, I think he is talking about fun. It's obvious what it takes to be successful at EQ, but i think the general population would agree the cost of that success is not fun.

I can suck at baseball but still have a fun time and a chance to play.

Just own up to your god awful analogy!

Success = fun. When's the last time you lost at a game all the time and still had fun?

radditsu

08-10-2013, 08:29 AM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DeGDBR2L5kzI

Splorf22

08-10-2013, 11:34 AM

1. Practice is not NECESSARY to play sports.

Wat?

To play professional sports, if players don't practice, they don't play. Are you and Vianna from the same dodo bird planet?

For the like the one hundredth time in this thread, you are twisting the words coming out of my mouth. It's just mind boggling to see you misquote me again and again and then call me a liar and a dodo when you have mental capacity of a cabbage. Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect I'm sure you think I'm just trolling you, but step back from forumquest for a second and consider the fact that everyone else in this thread has been disagreeing with everything you've said, and ask yourself: are you the genius set upon by dunces, or are you the dunce?

I said sports, not professional sports. And I said that for a reason, because I don't think playing Everquest should require the same time commitment as professional sports . . . as I stated earlier in one of my posts. Not to mention that as I and others have pointed out practice and tracking are not even remotely similar. Also I have fun all the time when I don't win, as long as I and my team played reasonably well and got the endorphins flowing. Sometimes the other team is just better than you, and if you actually played sports in even a rec league you would know what this feels like.

Anyway, you win. I'm tired of trying to sledgehammer ideas into the iron ball you call a brain. Congratulations.

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/ferrous.jpg

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_62.php

Nietche

08-10-2013, 11:58 AM

Not to mention that as I and others have pointed out practice and tracking are not even remotely similar.

Not similar? They are similar in the very point I pointed out numerous times now: in terms of preparation. To be successful at either baseball or Everquest, you must put in the time necessary to get there. In baseball, players watch film (which takes time away from actually playing). In Everquest, players track (which takes time away from actually playing).

Yes, I do think you're a dunce.