So how about that Zimmerman trial?

[Jimes]

Actually, it was "life, liberty, and the pursuit of property."

It got changed when the powerful realized property was finite, and they didn't want just anyone owning it.

Idiot.

protip for fatty: "property" in the political philosophical sense does not and has never specifically meant land ownership. Property = things you own, including land. Many of the political philosophers that influenced the founders believed in the idea that a pursuit of happiness IS the pursuit of property. Continue with your hipster ramblings.

[Hasbinbad]

LOLOLOLOLOL

[Hasbinbad]

IT'S SO EXACTLY THE SAME WHY DIDN'T I SEE IT BEFORE THAT'S EXACTLY WHY THEY HAD TO CHANGE IT

[Kagatob]

It's called The Republic of Liberia.

Doesn't seem all that successful. Granted there are worse places but is that really saying much?
From Travel.state.gov (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_950.html)
CRIME: While incidence of crime in Liberia is high, most crimes that occur within the expat community are crimes of opportunity (which increase during the hours of darkness), with an occasional residential burglary or armed robbery (with use of a knife or machete). Criminal activity has been reported in both urban and rural areas. The Liberian National Police have limited capacity to respond to crime events, thus crime is much higher in Liberian communities where police are not visible. Driving in Monrovia presents danger to residents and visitors, as traffic laws are either nonexistent or not enforced by police. Traffic accidents are frequent and often result in injury or loss of life. The police are poorly equipped and largely incapable of providing effective protection or investigation.

Perpetrators of business fraud often target foreigners, including U.S. citizens. Formerly associated with Nigeria, these fraud schemes are now prevalent throughout western Africa, including Liberia, and pose a danger of both financial loss and physical harm. An increasing number of U.S. citizens have been the targets of such scams. The best way to avoid becoming a victim of fraud is common sense – if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. U.S. citizens should carefully check any unsolicited business proposal originating in Liberia before committing any funds, providing any goods or services, or undertaking any travel, particularly if the proposal involves the mining or sale of gold and diamonds. There has also been an increase in the number of Liberian/American Internet relationships in which there are eventual requests for financial assistance under fraudulent pretenses. For additional information, please see the Department of State's Bureau of Consular Affairs brochure on International Financial Scams.

Petty corruption is rampant; poorly paid government officials may ask for fees for doing their job. Travelers may be inconvenienced for not paying them.

Don’t buy counterfeit and pirated goods, even if they are widely available. Not only are the bootlegs illegal in the United States, you may also be breaking local law.

[Alawen]

Whoever dies with the most toys... is still dead.

[Splorf22]

50% of what I've said have been genuine rebuttals, the other 50% is frustrated outrage at this particular thread and the nature of racism in America today. I'm happily called out about flames, but it doesn't make the content of this thread any less intolerable, nor you any less flaming.



Also: Hitler.

Then let me give you a non-trollish post for a change. Let's say that the liberal crowd is right and Blacks face a 3.5% home buying premium because of meeting too many racist rich white people. I ask you: is this really a huge problem?

1. It's 3.5%, not 35%. Obviously in an ideal world it would be 0, but its hardly a crippling handicap.

2. Blacks are the subject of numerous affirmative action programs. For example, I seem to recall reading that being black was the equivalent of +200 on your SAT score, while being Asian was -100. Many companies and especially the Gubbermint go out of their way to try and maintain a racially appropriate balance.

I just find it very hard to believe that the primary problem Blacks have in this country is white men pushing them down. And its not hard to find an alternative hypothesis: a gangsta/baby momma culture that denigrates work and material success and glorifies drugs and violence. I'm sure HBB will quote that with another 'things racists say' :D

[Kagatob]

protip for fatty: "property" in the political philosophical sense does not and has never specifically meant land ownership. Property = things you own, including land. Many of the political philosophers that influenced the founders believed in the idea that a pursuit of happiness IS the pursuit of property. Continue with your hipster ramblings.

IT'S SO EXACTLY THE SAME WHY DIDN'T I SEE IT BEFORE THAT'S EXACTLY WHY THEY HAD TO CHANGE IT

In the year 2013 it's more accurate/correct to call it the pursuit of profit.

[Alawen]

50% of what I've said have been genuine rebuttals, the other 50% is frustrated outrage at this particular thread and the nature of racism in America today. I'm happily called out about flames, but it doesn't make the content of this thread any less intolerable, nor you any less flaming.



Also: Hitler.

Godwin wins again. Thread complete.

[Rhambuk]

Godwin wins again. Thread complete.

He lost when it came to Zidane vs titus. ;)

[Barkingturtle]

I just find it very hard to believe that the primary problem Blacks have in this country is white men pushing them down. And its not hard to find an alternative hypothesis: a gangsta/baby momma culture that denigrates work and material success and glorifies drugs and violence. I'm sure HBB will quote that with another 'things racists say' :D


Your worship of work and "material success" -- a truly bizarre term I can only imagine you've invented to explain your own vapid consumerism -- is depressing. I do however appreciate it when drones accept their fate and even go so far as to self-identify.

Aside from that, your attribution of traits again betrays your loose thinking and inability to analyze trends and recognize patterns. How can you label it a gangster culture and simultaneously claim they denigrate "material success" -- which I will go ahead and call wealth for the sake of not sounding fucking dumb. How can you form your opinion of an entire race based on rap videos and conclude anything but the opposite: an obsession with extravagant spending more commonly known as Bling? How can you ignore how icy them cats is? I'll tell you how: it's called willful ignorance, cognitive dissonance, being a self-serving dipshit.

Anyway, given your unique defects I can't imagine you'll ever really get it, but you'll also never achieve anything resembling a position of influence. That's some consolation.

[Ahldagor]

It would be an interesting experiment to give African Americans their own communities and see if things improve or remain stagnant.

detroit?

[Daldolma]

absolutely certain that what ails black ppl in america will not be unearthed on elfjournal

[Ahldagor]

here's some readings

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/Fear_and_Loathing_in_Las_Vegas.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Story.fearandloathing.jpg

now look at america's current state after you've read them. they read quickly too.

[Ahldagor]

absolutely certain that what ails black ppl in america will not be unearthed on elfjournal

mostly white people arguing it too

[Splorf22]

If you google material success you'll find 127 million matches. Maybe you need to expand your vocabulary a little bit? Let me explain it in 3rd grade terms for you:

bling, dope, gun, living under the bridge = unproductive society
house, car = material success = productive society

I find it hilarious that anyone is so intellectually disabled that they would write a post impugning someone else's intelligence while simultaneously admitting they have no idea what said person is talking about. Oh wait, did that have too many big words for you?

[Barkingturtle]

If you google material success you'll find 127 million matches. Maybe you need to expand your vocabulary a little bit? Let me explain it in 3rd grade terms for you:

bling, dope, gun, living under the bridge = unproductive society
house, car = material success = productive society

I find it hilarious that anyone is so intellectually disabled that they would write a post impugning someone else's intelligence while simultaneously admitting they have no idea what said person is talking about. Oh wait, did that have too many big words for you?

So your definition of success is limited even to purchasing certain products?

I'd call it fascinating but there's nothing fascinating about you and in fact I'm disappointed I got such a rise out of you that you abandoned your smiling tone for this impotent attempt at venom. It does not suit you and it betrays the non-descended testicle you try so hard to hide. That's right, I can see all that just from your post.

Further, pretending I didn't understand your vocabulary is just another example of you adopting a more convenient unreality. It's obvious I was ridiculing your shallow values and doing so with panache and evidently great effect. Anyway, like so many shallow cunts before I have utterly destroyed you and now you're gonna have to figure out how you're going to deal with that fistula and the trail of reeking fail you leave behind.

[Daldolma]

was only a matter of time before thread hit fistula

[Barkingturtle]

was only a matter of time before thread hit fistula

That's Barkingturtle's Law.

[Alawen]

The recent elevation of vocabulary in this thread makes me <3 <3 <3

[Alawen]

P.S. Love Loraen's new postulate that a little bigotry is no big deal.

[Splorf22]

So your definition of success is limited even to purchasing certain products?

I'd call it fascinating but there's nothing fascinating about you and in fact I'm disappointed I got such a rise out of you that you abandoned your smiling tone for this impotent attempt at venom. It does not suit you and it betrays the non-descended testicle you try so hard to hide. That's right, I can see all that just from your post.

Further, pretending I didn't understand your vocabulary is just another example of you adopting a more convenient unreality. It's obvious I was ridiculing your shallow values and doing so with panache and evidently great effect. Anyway, like so many shallow cunts before I have utterly destroyed you and now you're gonna have to figure out how you're going to deal with that fistula and the trail of reeking fail you leave behind.

Perhaps because I figured out that you were merely attempting to lob feces from underneath your troll bridge and decided to roll your own dung back at you? And rather successfully it seems, given how many words you have spewed onto this post alone. You keep claiming some sort of troll victory - your post is like the twisted, deformed offspring of Webster's Dictionary and "umadbro" - and yet your every word betrays your ignorance of the situation and the world in general. Fortunately there are enough people doing work that civilization can support your hobby of directly connecting your ethernet cable to your anus.

[Barkingturtle]

Are you avoiding my point because it's painful or because you don't understand?

Don't answer. I know it's both.

By the way -- I'm only abusing you because I don't respect you. In case you had that confused.

[Splorf22]

Is your every post some variant of umadbro?

Don't answer, we all know it is.

[Barkingturtle]

I'm not asking if you're mad. I can tell you're mad. You're no accustomed to having what passes for your intellect challenged. I'm here to tell you: you are dumb. I'd say that's more accurately what I've been repeating, by the way. U r dum. The fact that you've misinterpreted even that obvious truth is just another example of your poor breeding.

[Barkingturtle]

By the way, 3.5% only seems insignificant when the most meaningful transactions you've ever been party to involve platinum pieces.

[Splorf22]

I'm not the one double posting and attempting to score points with "you are dumb". I find it hilarious that after 50 pages of you doing nothing but trolling someone tosses one at you and you go atomic, screaming u dum u mad and acting like throwing in a few words you looked up in Webster's makes you look hip.

Consider this my victory lap. You can stop frothing at your keyboard now.

[Grahm]

HBB went to a completely new level back there with the "Things X say"

[Barkingturtle]

In the course of a few posts you've questioned my vocabulary and accused me using a dictionary(I think you probably meant thesaurus but rage has made you somehow moar dum).

It's never a good sign when someone uses my advanced vocabulary to attack me, either. I mean -- what do you think you're proving other than the fact you're overwhelmed by my big words? You might as well just pull your ass-cheeks apart for me.

Anyway, I'm happy to abuse you indefinitely because I am by nature a bully. I recognize and accept that, just as you should recognize and embrace your bigotry and dumbitude.

[Alawen]

Here's the scenario:

$200,000 home purchase with $40,000 down payment, 30-year fixed mortgage at 4.5% interest rate = $1,020 monthly payment, $367K total payments, $132K total interest.

$207,000 home purchase with $40,000 down payment, 30-year fixed mortgage at 5.5% interest rate = $1,160 monthly payment, $419K total payments, $174K total interest.

Purchase price and interest rate kind of matter.

[Barkingturtle]

That scenario doesn't even account for compound interest, either -- which any self-respecting white loan officer is sure to impose upon the more ignobly-hued.

[Reapin]

Here's the scenario:

$200,000 home purchase with $40,000 down payment, 30-year fixed mortgage at 4.5% interest rate = $1,020 monthly payment, $367K total payments, $132K total interest.

$207,000 home purchase with $40,000 down payment, 30-year fixed mortgage at 5.5% interest rate = $1,160 monthly payment, $419K total payments, $174K total interest.

Purchase price and interest rate kind of matter.

Only morons and people living beyond their means pay interest.

[Kagatob]

Only morons and people living beyond their means pay interest.

[Alawen]

Discriminatory lending doesn't matter because Reapin and Katobog paid cash for the houses they own outright.

[Kagatob]

Go live in the woods like you promised. Make sure it doesn't have internet access.

[Alawen]

You know what it means when a weebo owns his own home? That's right. Plenty of space for anime figures and plenty of privacy to coat them in semen.

[Hasbinbad]

HBB went to a completely new level back there with the "Things X say"
glad you appreciated it

[Samoht]

things morans say:

Things racists say:
Things misogynists say:
Things idiots say:
Things bigots say:

It would be an interesting experiment to give African Americans their own communities and see if things improve or remain stagnant.

i'm not sure if anybody ever saw this post, so i'm quoting it.

Here's the scenario:

$200,000 home purchase with $40,000 down payment, 30-year fixed mortgage at 4.5% interest rate = $1,020 monthly payment, $367K total payments, $132K total interest.

$207,000 home purchase with $40,000 down payment, 30-year fixed mortgage at 5.5% interest rate = $1,160 monthly payment, $419K total payments, $174K total interest.

Purchase price and interest rate kind of matter.

lrn2haggle

[Daldolma]

Only morons and people living beyond their means pay interest.

^ clearly poor

[Reiker000]

A lotta mad and dumb racists in this thread.

[Kagatob]

i'm not sure if anybody ever saw this post, so i'm quoting it.

Elaborate

[Barkingturtle]

Elaborate

Well, see, he's a dumbfuck like you and he thinks it would be interesting to segregate blacks into their own community as an experiment, speculatively to find out what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real.

It's really funny because it assumes at present communities are apparently all owned and operated by whites, and yet the same feebs have been making the argument that we do not currently live with the specter of systemic racism.

It would be challenging for most people to hold such contradictory positions, but we must never forget the bigot's aptitude for willful ignorance is unrivaled.

[Daldolma]

A lotta mad and dumb racists in this thread.

[Samoht]

Well, see, he's a dumbfuck like you and he thinks it would be interesting to segregate blacks into their own community as an experiment, speculatively to find out what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real.

you couldn't be more dumb

my point was that it's already like that

[Barkingturtle]

Use capital letters and punctuation when you address me, bitch.

And yeah, sure that was your point.

At least during your transparent back-peddling you don't dispute that you're a dumbfuck bigot. If anything, you've only reinforced it by implying blacks have been "given" their own communities.

[Vaildez]

What annoys me the most about this whole thing was how quickly MSNBC jumped on the race card bandwagon and wanted to burn Zimmerman at the stake. The same day this happened a mentally handicapped white person was jumped and killed in minneapolis by a group of African Americans. Where was the racial outrage and headline story for that?

[Samoht]

Use capital letters and punctuation when you address me, bitch.

And yeah, sure that was your point.

At least during your transparent back-peddling you don't dispute that you're a dumbfuck bigot. If anything, you've only reinforced it by implying blacks have been "given" their own communities.

yawn

you trollin on malice_moron level now?

[Sidelle]

What annoys me the most about this whole thing was how quickly MSNBC jumped on the race card bandwagon and wanted to burn Zimmerman at the stake. The same day this happened a mentally handicapped white person was jumped and killed in minneapolis by a group of African Americans. Where was the racial outrage and headline story for that?

Didn't you get the memo? It just isn't possible that racism can go both ways. Get with the program.

[Malice_Mizer]

I remember the last experiment we conducted on African Americans to see how they'd react...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Syphilis-poster-wpa-cure.jpg

I remember Tuskegee going exceptionally well for everyone involved.

[Hasbinbad]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/george-zimmerman-offers-to-just-plead-guilty-and-p,33087/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Status:2:Default

[Hasbinbad]

Didn't you get the memo? It just isn't possible that racism can go both ways. Get with the program.
This is true. Racism is only top-down and never bottom-up. Thus, in any situation where one racial group has power, they have the potential to be racist (e.g. mexican racism against salvadorans in predominantly mexican neighborhoods). This local context has to be further modified by the global context, in which power is highly concentrated in the hands of - mostly - white men.

Dislike or mistrust of one racial group by another for no reason other than their skin color can be bigotry or prejudice, but if there are other reasons for that dislike or mistrust, such as oppression, this is no longer bigotry or prejudice; it is judice, if you like, or self defense.

Also, there is no such thing as a "race." This is all a non-argument, using nonsense words that mean nothing, perpetuated by bigots.

[Sidelle]

This is true. Racism is only top-down and never bottom-up. Thus, in any situation where one racial group has power, they have the potential to be racist (e.g. mexican racism against salvadorans in predominantly mexican neighborhoods). This local context has to be further modified by the global context, in which power is highly concentrated in the hands of - mostly - white men.

Dislike or mistrust of one racial group by another for no reason other than their skin color can be bigotry or prejudice, but if there are other reasons for that dislike or mistrust, such as oppression, this is no longer bigotry or prejudice; it is judice, if you like, or self defense.

Also, there is no such thing as a "race." This is all a non-argument, using nonsense words that mean nothing, perpetuated by bigots.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=07GHzQuuG_M&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D07GHzQuuG_M

So the attitudes and threats by blacks in this video are a form of self defense justified by past oppression by whites?

Mmkay.

[Barkingturtle]

Your outrage at their words would be more meaningful if this weren't a thread about a dead boy.

Anyway, it's misdirected angst. You're really upset with the sensationalist media more than black folks. It's important to remember they report in pursuit of ratings and not justice nor to truly inform you.

[Kagatob]

it's already like that

Show me these African-American communities that are populated mostly by, have the laws enforced/created by, who's economy is controlled by and their people are represented by African-Americans.

It's not 'correct' to want such a thing to be considering there aren't for any other minority groups either such as Asians, Eastern Europeans, Hispanic populations, though the former and latter have come very close, it's also not correct to pretend that such a thing exists. Thank you for jumping on me for proposing a hypothetical situation.

The ones making the mere speculation of subjects taboo are one of the real sources of the problems at hand.

Here's one to chew on. What's the deal with hispanic people using the 'N' word all the time?

[Daldolma]

it's amazing how much underlying racial tension can explode on the basis of a case that really has almost nothing to do with race

fukn fbi can't find evidence zimmerman was racist, his ex-fiancée that filed a restraining order against him says she never heard him say anything racist, he self identifies as hispanic

too many people are way too eager to scream racism. it exists and it's no small potatoes, but it's also not responsible for every injustice visited upon a black person.

and in this instance, even IF zimmerman is a racist and followed trayvon based at least partly on his skin color, it doesn't change the facts of the case at all. you still don't know who started the fight, you still don't know who screamed for help, you still have reasonable doubt as to whether or not zimmerman was acting in self defense

[Samoht]

It's not 'correct' to want such a thing to be considering there aren't for any other minority groups either such as Asians, Eastern Europeans, Hispanic populations, though the former and latter have come very close, it's also not correct to pretend that such a thing exists. Thank you for jumping on me for proposing a hypothetical situation.

where the hell are you from, minneapolis or something? maybe montana? any city/state where the population is 99.9% homogenous will suffice.

because in the real world, these groups inherently form communities with each other. for instance, many major cities across the country have a china town. they weren't forced to live there.

the shrimping population on the gulf coast is mostly vietnamese. why? because shrimping is a skill already familiar to their culture, so the shrimping families all migrated to the same place, ultimately transforming the gulf coast into a strong vietnamese cultural center. you end up with vietnamese-american boat owners, business owners, land owners, council men, mayors, state representatives, us congressmen/senators, etc, etc

it does not make on a racist to recognize the success of these vietnamese-americans.

almost every culture mimics this kind of behaviour, african-americans included.

so clearly these kinds of things don't exist.

[Samoht]

and in this instance, even IF zimmerman is a racist and followed trayvon based at least partly on his skin color, it doesn't change the facts of the case at all.

my guess is he was following him not because of his skin colour, but because of the rash of recent break-ins in the neighbourhood perpetrated by kids in hoodies

[Hasbinbad]

Things racists say:
past oppression

[Hasbinbad]

[Martin's] neighbourhood [which was not Zimmerman's neighborhood]

[Vaildez]

Media is the real problem... They create racism at any opportunity to stir the pot for ratings and a large majority of the population eats it up. I would be glad to see GZ's defamation case against MSNBC succeed since they created this whole mess to begin with.

[Samoht]

[Martin's] neighbourhood [which was not Zimmerman's neighborhood]

isn't it already established that trayvon did not live in that neighbourhood? i don't understand what you're trying to say. can you please clarify?

[Alawen]

where the hell are you from, minneapolis or something? maybe montana? any city/state where the population is 99.9% homogenous will suffice.

Minneapolis is 17.4% black and 9.2% hispanic.

It's become very obvious that you never bother to actually check facts before running your mouth.

[Bodeanicus]

What annoys me the most about this whole thing was how quickly MSNBC jumped on the race card bandwagon and wanted to burn Zimmerman at the stake. The same day this happened a mentally handicapped white person was jumped and killed in minneapolis by a group of African Americans. Where was the racial outrage and headline story for that?

Were the African Americans arrested, and charged immediately, or were they allowed to just go home after the killing? Were they allowed to wander around the Police station, basically just hanging out after they killed someone?

Didn't fuckin' think so. If Trayvon Martin had been blond haired, blue eyed, surfboard shot wearing Travis McDonald, George Zimmerman would already be in prison, and that's the fucking difference. Zimmerman harassed a black kid he didn't recognize, then shot the kid when he started getting his ass whipped. If he'd stayed his punk, cop wannabe ass in his car and waited for the real police, he wouldn't be on trial. I wish I could say Martin would still be alive, but the police probably would have killed him, too, judging by how they just let Zimmerman go the fuck home after killing a black kid.

[Gadwen]

Everyone in this thread is wrong.

[Bodeanicus]

Everyone in this thread is a fat, neckbeard loser or juvenile, assburger's victim who posts on a Elf simulator website.

[Daldolma]

Were the African Americans arrested, and charged immediately, or were they allowed to just go home after the killing? Were they allowed to wander around the Police station, basically just hanging out after they killed someone?

Didn't fuckin' think so. If Trayvon Martin had been blond haired, blue eyed, surfboard shot wearing Travis McDonald, George Zimmerman would already be in prison, and that's the fucking difference. Zimmerman harassed a black kid he didn't recognize, then shot the kid when he started getting his ass whipped. If he'd stayed his punk, cop wannabe ass in his car and waited for the real police, he wouldn't be on trial. I wish I could say Martin would still be alive, but the police probably would have killed him, too, judging by how they just let Zimmerman go the fuck home after killing a black kid.

^ dum

self defense is self defense and this case probably never reaches court if martin was a blond haired, blue eyed white kid. the facts of the case supported zimmerman's claim to self defense. self defense is notoriously difficult to prosecute because it's exceptionally difficult to prove a negative beyond a reasonable doubt, especially in a case like this where there is unquestionable physical injury to the party that claimed self defense. because of that, no charges were brought until a swell of racial outrage demanded further inspection

there is also no evidence to suggest zimmerman "harassed" martin. as a neighborhood watchman, he followed him and upon confronting him, asked him what he was doing. that's all we know from the facts. there's nothing wrong with that. it's not illegal, it's not unethical, it's not even all that stupid. if, as zimmerman claims, martin attacked him on that basis, zimmerman had every right to defend himself. and given the reasonable assumption that zimmerman would face serious bodily harm during this attack (he had already suffered a broken nose and was being pinned to the ground), he was justified to use deadly force

this all supposes zimmerman's claims are truthful, and they may not be. but there is vastly insufficient evidence to disprove his claims beyond a reasonable doubt. hence, charging him was an exercise in futility

[Vaildez]

Were the African Americans arrested, and charged immediately, or were they allowed to just go home after the killing? Were they allowed to wander around the Police station, basically just hanging out after they killed someone?

Didn't fuckin' think so. If Trayvon Martin had been blond haired, blue eyed, surfboard shot wearing Travis McDonald, George Zimmerman would already be in prison, and that's the fucking difference. Zimmerman harassed a black kid he didn't recognize, then shot the kid when he started getting his ass whipped. If he'd stayed his punk, cop wannabe ass in his car and waited for the real police, he wouldn't be on trial. I wish I could say Martin would still be alive, but the police probably would have killed him, too, judging by how they just let Zimmerman go the fuck home after killing a black kid.

Since you obviously paid no attention to the evidence in the case...

http://danceswithfat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg

[Samoht]

Minneapolis is 17.4% black and 9.2% hispanic.

It's become very obvious that you never bother to actually check facts before running your mouth.

so minneapolis is 64% white, definitely a homogenous majority

ty for the lesson on census, tho

[Daldolma]

^ bad math is bad

[Samoht]

how much do you require for a majority?

[Vaildez]

Minneapolis is quite diverse and continuing to grow... We are a very liberal welfare friendly state and attract folks from fun cities like Chicago and Detroit...

[Malice_Mizer]

Majority =/= Homogeneous

[Samoht]

so if 64% of the population is white, and that's not a majority

and if 100% of 64% is white, and that's not homogenous

i really don't want to be as dumb as you guys

[Barkingturtle]

so if 64% of the population is white, and that's not a majority

and if 100% of 64% is white, and that's not homogenous

i really don't want to be as dumb as you guys

You fucking idiot.

Daldosoma was making fun of you for thinking 100 - 26 = 64

It does not. That's the bad math. You should be embarrassed.

[Samoht]

where does the number 26 even come into this? are black, mexican, and white the only races in the world? you're the fucking moron for assuming there are no other minorities present in minneapolis

[Barkingturtle]

There are, but again if your dumb fucking ass bothered to research you'd find Minneapolis is actually 70% white per recent census data.

17% Black plus 9% Hispanic equals 26%. 100 -26 = 74, dummy.

Or did you just conjure 64% out of thin air?

[Barkingturtle]

I'd definitely kill myself if I were that dumb, btw.

[Hasbinbad]

so if 64% of the population is white, and that's not a majority

and if 100% of 64% is white, and that's not homogenous

i really don't want to be as dumb as you guys
Racism can be detected in the idea that whites are homogenous.

[Samoht]

There are, but again if your dumb fucking ass bothered to research you'd find Minneapolis is actually 70% white per recent census data.

17% Black plus 9% Hispanic equals 26%. 100 -26 = 74, dummy.

Or did you just conjure 64% out of thin air?

64% as of 2010

I'd definitely kill myself if I were that dumb, btw.

definitely smarter than you (see above)

Racism can be detected in the idea that whites are homogenous.

they're all german/scandinavian

definitely homogenous

[Samoht]

17% Black plus 9% Hispanic equals 26%. 100 -26 = 74, dummy.

can't believe you're still pushing this after this:

where does the number 26 even come into this? are black, mexican, and white the only races in the world? you're the fucking moron for assuming there are no other minorities present in minneapolis

what about asian, american indian, mixed, etc

racist moran is racist

[Hasbinbad]

Things racists say:
[whites are] all german/scandinavian

[Vaildez]

Things racists say:

Things racists do.... Post other people are racist 30+ times in a thread.

[Malice_Mizer]

mixed

Bahaha

Oh, Lord ...

[Hasbinbad]

Things decent people do.... Post other people are racist 30+ times in a thread where people have been racist 30+ times.

[K|mm Barely]

http://i.imgur.com/Slor2PQ.gif

[Ahldagor]

http://i.imgur.com/Slor2PQ.gif

/thread

funny how racism is brought up more than the fact that a kid was killed

[Hasbinbad]

kids are killed every day.

funny how when white kids are killed, one must crucify the terrorist, but when black kids are killed, must have been self defense.

[Bodeanicus]

^ dum
there is also no evidence to suggest zimmerman "harassed" martin. as a neighborhood watchman, he followed him and upon confronting him, asked him what he was doing.

Against the advice of every Neighboorhood Watch organization's guidelines in the entire country. Zimmerman is not a policeman, despite his fantasies to the contrary. According to SYG, Martin had the right to defend himself against Zimmerman. Too bad he was black. Apparently, in Florida, they just send you on home for picking a fight, then killing black people. That is, until someone reports it to national media.

that's all we know from the facts. there's nothing wrong with that. it's not illegal, it's not unethical, it's not even all that stupid.

It's causing the unnecessary death of another human being through negligence, incompetence, and stupidity. In other words, it's manslaughter.

if, as zimmerman claims, martin attacked him on that basis, zimmerman had every right to defend himself.

Martin had every right to defend himself from a strange man, who is not a security guard or police officer, following him. Or are all black teenage males "fucking punks" up to "no good." And Zimmerman is a proven liar. He and his wife both got thrown into jail for lying about their finances to a judge, remember?

and given the reasonable assumption that zimmerman would face serious bodily harm during this attack (he had already suffered a broken nose and was being pinned to the ground), he was justified to use deadly force.

Maybe he shouldn't harass strangers and he wouldn't get his ass kicked. If he hadn't had his gun, his fat pussy ass wouldn't have gotten out of the car in the first place. It comes down to that idiotic SYG law that never should have been passed by fat, old white baby boomers frightened to death of black people. This is what happens.

this all supposes zimmerman's claims are truthful, and they may not be. but there is vastly insufficient evidence to disprove his claims beyond a reasonable doubt. hence, charging him was an exercise in futility

Wrong. It's the state's duty to investigate the killing of a human being by another human being, no matter the circumstances beyond "Hey Bob, it's just a dead ******. Let him go, you know how them coons are."

[hatelore]

kids are killed every day.

funny how when white kids are killed, one must crucify the terrorist, but when black kids are killed, must have been self defense.


Man, shut the fuck up. Race played zero part in this other then Martin calling him a crazy ass cracker, on his txt to his fat girlfriend. What did play into this was, Media,Obama,DoJ race baiting. Hbb, we all know your fat and died on the p99 cross for us, but don't be a tool. I have enough of those in my shed.

[Bodeanicus]

Man, shut the fuck up. Race played zero part in this other then Martin calling him a crazy ass cracker, on his txt to his fat girlfriend. What did play into this was, Media,Obama,DoJ race baiting. Hbb, we all know your fat and died on the p99 cross for us, but don't be a tool. I have enough of those in my shed.

Zimmerman would have never followed Martin if he wasn't black. Race had everything to do with it.

[Ahldagor]

kids are killed every day.

funny how when white kids are killed, one must crucify the terrorist, but when black kids are killed, must have been self defense.

you almost got it, but then you typed more.

[JurisDictum]

Man, shut the fuck up. Race played zero part in this other then Martin calling him a crazy ass cracker, on his txt to his fat girlfriend.
The reason media outlets can always make bank on fanning the flames of racial tension, is because people like you will continue to say stupid shit like this.
This is a zero sum situation where Zimmerman is ether a racist asshole that hates blacks, or Zimmerman didn't even notice he was black and it had no impact on his assessment of him.

[Samoht]

According to SYG, Martin had the right to defend himself against Zimmerman.

no, no he didn't. simply being on the street as someone else does not mean you have to defend yourself. trayvon was the aggressor. this is amplified by the fact that he lost gz but then ambushed him. SYG says you don't have to flee, so he gave up SYG the second he fled.

[Reapin]

The reason media outlets can always make bank on fanning the flames of racial tension, is because people like you will continue to say stupid shit like this.
This is a zero sum situation where Zimmerman is ether a racist asshole that hates blacks, or Zimmerman didn't even notice he was black and it had no impact on his assessment of him.

I thought he was heard on tape saying "those ******s always get away with it"

[Vaildez]

Zimmerman would have never followed Martin if he wasn't black. Race had everything to do with it.

So he wouldn't have followed a white kid in a hoodie when there were recent robberies? BS GFY

[Reapin]

People like Daldolma want a race war so they can sell more instruments of death to stupid racist redneck pieces of shit.

[Vaildez]

People like Daldolma want a race war so they can sell more instruments of death to stupid racist redneck pieces of shit.

The race war was created Liberal media sites like msnbc who do shit like doctor audio tapes to label GZ a racist for ratings.

[JurisDictum]

I thought he was heard on tape saying "those ******s always get away with it"

The're left wing idiots too. No reason to be equally stupid in the opposite direction. For example, Travvon's friend didn't come across as 100% credible. But that doesn't mean he then take Zimmerman's story as gospel. Which last i checked was he simply said "hey what are doing" and trayvon proceeded to violently attack him and announce he was going to kill him.
I already said aquitte for lack of evidence, but I think there is a really good chance Zimmerman decided to physically prevent Trayvon from leaving, and that there is also a chance he trayvon didn't go from zero to "you're going to die tonight motherfucker" all at once. Almost everyone will push away someone before "going for it."

[Bodeanicus]

no, no he didn't. simply being on the street as someone else does not mean you have to defend yourself. trayvon was the aggressor. this is amplified by the fact that he lost gz but then ambushed him. SYG says you don't have to flee, so he gave up SYG the second he fled.

Proof that he ambushed him. And if you like to Breitbart's "Racist Treehouse" site, you're a fucking moron.

[Bodeanicus]

People like Daldolma want a race war so they can sell more instruments of death to stupid racist redneck pieces of shit.

He's still not over his trailer trash mother fucking black crack dealers.

[Ahldagor]

why can none of you abandon the idea of race? zimmerman killed a kid plain and simple. he was told to not engage treyvon by a 911 operator that instructed him to wait for police because besides this criminal trial there will be a civil trial where his liability will be questioned and argued. zimmerman didn't have to engage treyvon is what it boils down to.

[Malice_Mizer]

The're left wing idiots too. No reason to be equally stupid in the opposite direction. For example, Travvon's friend didn't come across as 100% credible. But that doesn't mean he then take Zimmerman's story as gospel. Which last i checked was he simply said "hey what are doing" and trayvon proceeded to violently attack him and announce he was going to kill him.
I already said aquitte for lack of evidence, but I think there is a really good chance Zimmerman decided to physically prevent Trayvon from leaving, and that there is also a chance he trayvon didn't go from zero to "you're going to die tonight motherfucker" all at once. Almost everyone will push away someone before "going for it."

"You got a problem, homie?"

- George Zimmerman's ideas of "what black people talk like"


Did anyone see the brutality of the court the past few days? I caught the news on-and-off this morning, watching Don West raving and the judge telling him to review the professional code of conduct for the court. Don West really should be on trial here. I've grown to loathe this dude.

And the other night when it went until 10PM, the judge kept asking George Zimmerman DIRECTLY whether or not he intended to testify. Don West kept butting in saying that he needed to confer with his client, and the judge kept saying, "Overruled," and basically told him to shut up, making George Zimmerman answer questions. He has such a squirrelly and timid voice, it actually made me cringe a bit in pity, somehow. She kept pressing him, and it was truly a brutal thing to watch. Not in a good way.

[Malice_Mizer]

During:

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/51deccd26bb3f72f0c00000f-480-360/don-west-george-zimmerman.jpg

After:

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2013/06/28/george-zimmerman-s-lawyer-don-west-took-a-truly-shocking-selfie/_jcr_content/body/inlineimage.img.503.jpg/1372464638238.cached.jpg

[Daldolma]

Against the advice of every Neighboorhood Watch organization's guidelines in the entire country. Zimmerman is not a policeman, despite his fantasies to the contrary. According to SYG, Martin had the right to defend himself against Zimmerman. Too bad he was black. Apparently, in Florida, they just send you on home for picking a fight, then killing black people. That is, until someone reports it to national media.



It's causing the unnecessary death of another human being through negligence, incompetence, and stupidity. In other words, it's manslaughter.



Martin had every right to defend himself from a strange man, who is not a security guard or police officer, following him. Or are all black teenage males "fucking punks" up to "no good." And Zimmerman is a proven liar. He and his wife both got thrown into jail for lying about their finances to a judge, remember?



Maybe he shouldn't harass strangers and he wouldn't get his ass kicked. If he hadn't had his gun, his fat pussy ass wouldn't have gotten out of the car in the first place. It comes down to that idiotic SYG law that never should have been passed by fat, old white baby boomers frightened to death of black people. This is what happens.



Wrong. It's the state's duty to investigate the killing of a human being by another human being, no matter the circumstances beyond "Hey Bob, it's just a dead ******. Let him go, you know how them coons are."

wow. there is a staggering amount of incorrect in this post. i'm going to go paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraph 1a - he doesn't have to follow the guidelines of neighborhood watch. should he have? sure. and trayvon should've run home or called the cops. a lot of different scenarios could have resulted in a much better outcome. but he has no legal obligation to follow those guidelines.

Paragraph 1b - it's highly questionable as to whether trayvon had the legal right to initiate physical violence with zimmerman. you claim that he was allowed to engage, in accordance with SYG. that depends upon a reasonable apprehension of harm. it would be a tough case to prove that trayvon reasonably believed zimmerman would harm him based simply on the fact that he followed him and asked what he was doing. it would be even tougher to prove that after initiating violence, it was necessary to pin zimmerman to the ground and continue hostile action. but most importantly, even if you were to prove that martin was justified and believed himself to be acting in self defense, that does NOT mean that zimmerman was not ALSO acting in self defense when he shot martin. martin could have attacked out of self defense, at which point zimmerman could have shot him in self defense. this would be a tragic misunderstanding based on two non-criminal instances of self defense. such is the law as it relates to self defense. it is mostly about reasonable perception -- not actual danger.

Paragraph 1c - your contention that zimmerman picked the fight is based wholly on supposition with no grounding in fact. we lose clarity as to the events that occurred in between zimmerman asking what trayvon was doing and both parties brawling on the ground. that intervening action is of paramount importance in determining who, in fact, "picked the fight".

Paragraph 2 - following a person and asking what they're doing is not grounds for a conviction of manslaughter. it is not negligent. it is not incompetent or stupid. it is nosy, maybe, which also is not a crime. you are making assumptions as to the intervening actions that resulted in violence. those assumptions are your own -- they're fabricated, not factual.

Paragraph 3 - again, you are advocating for trayvon's right to defend himself. again, this is an uphill battle and in no way relevant to the outcome of the zimmerman case. even if trayvon was acting well within his rights of self defense, so too could zimmerman have been.

Paragraph 4a - there is no evidence that he harassed martin. that is, again, supposition on your part.

Paragraph 4b - perhaps zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of his car without his gun -- that only bolsters zimmerman's case for self defense. if you argue he's a pussy, you further support the notion that he feared for his life while being attacked by martin.

Paragraph 4c - SYG has not been mobilized by zimmerman nor is it relevant to this case in any way. SYG grants zimmerman the ability to defend himself without an obligation to retreat. according to testimony, zimmerman was pinned to the ground by martin. this would nullify his responsibility to retreat, even in a non-SYG state.

Paragraph 5 - correct. it was the state's duty to investigate. they did, and they filed no charges because there is insufficient evidence to properly charge that a crime was, in fact, committed. it was not until this became a cause celebre that a special prosecutor was appointed to initiate far further scrutiny than a case such as this would typically garner

[Daldolma]

People like Daldolma want a race war so they can sell more instruments of death to stupid racist redneck pieces of shit.

i do not discriminate. i sell my wares in accordance with the 2nd amendment of this great country. if you do not like gun shows, do not attend. if rednecks are in need of armament, i am a simple peddler of goods.

don't blame me for finding a lucrative field while promoting the ideals this great nation was founded upon. i use some of my excess for good anyway, i am very generous with my church and the troops

[TarukShmaruk]

why can none of you abandon the idea of race? zimmerman killed a kid plain and simple. he was told to not engage treyvon by a 911 operator that instructed him to wait for police because besides this criminal trial there will be a civil trial where his liability will be questioned and argued. zimmerman didn't have to engage treyvon is what it boils down to.

bwuhhhhh

None of the shit you mentioned means anything. Also a 17 year old is 1 year from being an adult that isn't a kid.

It all comes down to the fight. All evidence shows that Zimmerman was the one attacked. He had a right to self defense.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Maybe he shouldn't harass strangers and he wouldn't get his ass kicked. If he hadn't had his gun, his fat pussy ass wouldn't have gotten out of the car in the first place. It comes down to that idiotic SYG law that never should have been passed by fat, old white baby boomers frightened to death of black people. This is what happens

SYG is not in any way at issue. I think you're missing the legal points that are at stake within the trial. Page 16 if this thread has detailed posts concerning the exact charges brought against him and the exact nature of his defense and why it is likely to succeed.

Relevant repost below:


I think you're not catching the thrust of the argument. SYG abuse is not in question here, at all. Sure, people are talking about it BECAUSE of the trial, but it is in NO WAY part of the actual proceedings. SYG was not used, much less abused, here.

Zimmerman's defense is as follows:

Self-defense because he was about to be murderized while pinned to the ground. That's it. He is NOT asserting SYG nor is it relevant to the case. SYG would ONLY be relevant if he had to opportunity to flee before using deadly force but chose not to flee. Even if Florida was NOT a SYG state, the concept would be irrelevant because of Zimmerman's defense. His story is that he was pinned. It is an integral part of his claims. Because his defense includes the inability to escape, SYG never enters the picture.

This is an all-or-nothing situation. He either proves that he defended himself from imminent harm while pinned, or he does not. There is no third theory where SYG comes into play.

[JurisDictum]

bwuhhhhh

It all comes down to the fight. All evidence shows that Zimmerman was the one attacked. He had a right to self defense.

There is no evidence that points to Trayvon starting the violence with Zimmerman, or that it was merely "self defense." This is Zimmerman's story which you seem to take as fact. There's a difference between "not guilty" and "innocent."

[Reapin]

why can none of you abandon the idea of race? zimmerman killed a kid plain and simple. he was told to not engage treyvon by a 911 operator that instructed him to wait for police because besides this criminal trial there will be a civil trial where his liability will be questioned and argued. zimmerman didn't have to engage treyvon is what it boils down to.

You must be from Canada.

Everything in America is about money and race.

[Misto]

Martin started the fight.

He slams the beaner's head on the concrete. Beaner pulls a gun. Kills the ******.

He feared for his life. He did nothing wrong.

--

To the people that want this beaner on death row for what he did. Engaging someone in a conversation doesn't give you grounds to punch them in the face.

That's it. It's that simple.

--

Oh. Hasbinbad is still a fag.

[Bodeanicus]

i do not discriminate. i sell my wares in accordance with the 2nd amendment of this great country. if you do not like gun shows, do not attend. if rednecks are in need of armament, i am a simple peddler of goods.

don't blame me for finding a lucrative field while promoting the ideals this great nation was founded upon. i use some of my excess for good anyway, i am very generous with my church and the troops

Figures, this is about gun sales to you. You could give a fuck less that someone was killed. You just want to be able to "protect" yourself from the big skeery black men.

And by the way, the 2nd Amendment was written to ensure an armed militia could be raised if the British, French, or Spanish invaded. Period. Not for armed rebellion, or shootin' ******s.

[Misto]

I just feel sorry for the jury that they have to listen to this bullshit even though they the majority of them have already made up their mind before they've enter the courtroom.

[Daldolma]

There is no evidence that points to Trayvon starting the violence with Zimmerman, or that it was merely "self defense." This is Zimmerman's story which you seem to take as fact. There's a difference between "not guilty" and "innocent."

there actually is evidence that it was self defense. zimmerman sustained a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head and his temple, while trayvon suffered no injuries consistent with being hit. zimmerman was indisputably losing the fight. there are witnesses that have testified to zimmerman being on the bottom, and a half dozen people have testified that it was zimmerman's voice calling for help.

some of that is in dispute. there are also witnesses that believe it was trayvon on bottom. trayvon's family has testified that it was trayvon's voice calling for help.

but to say there is "no evidence" that points to self defense is inaccurate. there is significant, but far from conclusive, evidence that supports such a claim. there is not conclusive evidence to disprove such a claim. that is the crux of this case.

[Misto]

Figures, this is about gun sales to you. You could give a fuck less that someone was killed. You just want to be able to "protect" yourself from the big skeery black men.

And by the way, the 2nd Amendment was written to ensure an armed militia could be raised if the British, French, or Spanish invaded. Period. Not for armed rebellion, or shootin' ******s.

What the fucks your problem. The guy sells guns to people who want them. Which is legal.

Sounds like your problem is with the US Government. Not this guy.

[Bodeanicus]

wow. there is a staggering amount of incorrect in this post. i'm going to go paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraph 1a - he doesn't have to follow the guidelines of neighborhood watch. should he have? sure. and trayvon should've run home or called the cops. a lot of different scenarios could have resulted in a much better outcome. but he has no legal obligation to follow those guidelines.

Paragraph 1b - it's highly questionable as to whether trayvon had the legal right to initiate physical violence with zimmerman. you claim that he was allowed to engage, in accordance with SYG. that depends upon a reasonable apprehension of harm. it would be a tough case to prove that trayvon reasonably believed zimmerman would harm him based simply on the fact that he followed him and asked what he was doing. it would be even tougher to prove that after initiating violence, it was necessary to pin zimmerman to the ground and continue hostile action. but most importantly, even if you were to prove that martin was justified and believed himself to be acting in self defense, that does NOT mean that zimmerman was not ALSO acting in self defense when he shot martin. martin could have attacked out of self defense, at which point zimmerman could have shot him in self defense. this would be a tragic misunderstanding based on two non-criminal instances of self defense. such is the law as it relates to self defense. it is mostly about reasonable perception -- not actual danger.

Paragraph 1c - your contention that zimmerman picked the fight is based wholly on supposition with no grounding in fact. we lose clarity as to the events that occurred in between zimmerman asking what trayvon was doing and both parties brawling on the ground. that intervening action is of paramount importance in determining who, in fact, "picked the fight".

Paragraph 2 - following a person and asking what they're doing is not grounds for a conviction of manslaughter. it is not negligent. it is not incompetent or stupid. it is nosy, maybe, which also is not a crime. you are making assumptions as to the intervening actions that resulted in violence. those assumptions are your own -- they're fabricated, not factual.

Paragraph 3 - again, you are advocating for trayvon's right to defend himself. again, this is an uphill battle and in no way relevant to the outcome of the zimmerman case. even if trayvon was acting well within his rights of self defense, so too could zimmerman have been.

Paragraph 4a - there is no evidence that he harassed martin. that is, again, supposition on your part.

Paragraph 4b - perhaps zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of his car without his gun -- that only bolsters zimmerman's case for self defense. if you argue he's a pussy, you further support the notion that he feared for his life while being attacked by martin.

Paragraph 4c - SYG has not been mobilized by zimmerman nor is it relevant to this case in any way. SYG grants zimmerman the ability to defend himself without an obligation to retreat. according to testimony, zimmerman was pinned to the ground by martin. this would nullify his responsibility to retreat, even in a non-SYG state.

Paragraph 5 - correct. it was the state's duty to investigate. they did, and they filed no charges because there is insufficient evidence to properly charge that a crime was, in fact, committed. it was not until this became a cause celebre that a special prosecutor was appointed to initiate far further scrutiny than a case such as this would typically garner

And it still doesn't change the fact that if Zimmerman hadn't gotten of his car with his 9mm security blanket and tried to play cop, and let the real police handle it, none of this shit would have happened. He's guilty of manslaughter, at least, and it's looking like he's going to jail. As he should.

[Reapin]

Martin started the fight.

He slams the beaner's head on the concrete. Beaner pulls a gun. Kills the ******.

He feared for his life. He did nothing wrong.

--

To the people that want this beaner on death row for what he did. Engaging someone in a conversation doesn't give you grounds to punch them in the face.

That's it. It's that simple.

--

Oh. Hasbinbad is still a fag.



Martin was being stalk by someone he didn't know..in the dark and he was lost. He tried to defend himself because he felt threatened. The beaner never identified himself as a neighborhood watch volunteer (probably because he was living a fantasy he was a big bad cop). Zimmerman is a proven liar and manipulator. Martin is a dead kid.

I side with the dead kid.

[Bodeanicus]

What the fucks your problem. The guy sells guns to people who want them. Which is legal.

Sounds like your problem is with the US Government. Not this guy.

The fuck's my problem? Fat, narcissistic little pussy cop wannabe's shooting anybody they're afraid of, and having the possibility of walking because of a dumbass law, that's my fucking problem.

[Misto]

Martin was being stalk by someone he didn't know..in the dark and he was lost. He tried to defend himself because he felt threatened. The beaner never identified himself as a neighborhood watch volunteer (probably because he was living a fantasy he was a big bad cop). Zimmerman is a proven liar and manipulator. Martin is a dead kid.

I side with the dead kid.

Why didn't he just run away instead of punching him in the face then.

[Misto]

What do you mean he was lost? He was walking home from a 7/11.

[Reapin]

Run where? He was lost in a gated neighborhood he didn't know well on a dark and stormy night.

[Frieza_Prexus]

The fuck's my problem? Fat, narcissistic little pussy cop wannabe's shooting anybody they're afraid of, and having the possibility of walking because of a dumbass law, that's my fucking problem.

I suggest you acquaint yourself with the legal elements of SYG and the present trial. SYG is not, in any way, at issue.

[Reapin]

What do you mean he was lost? He was walking home from a 7/11.

He was at his dads girlfriends house, it was dark and raining.

[Bodeanicus]

I love when people say "Why didn't he just call 911 himself?"

Because cops tend to suspect, and beat the shit out of teenage black kids, automatically. That's why.

[Misto]

Reapin. I don't know where you're going with this.

It's not like he was a retarded autistic kid that didn't know where he was or what he was doing.

[Bodeanicus]

I suggest you acquaint yourself with the legal elements of SYG and the present trial. SYG is not, in any way, at issue.

It's the whole point of the fucking case, you fucking idiot.

[Daldolma]

And it still doesn't change the fact that if Zimmerman hadn't gotten of his car with his 9mm security blanket and tried to play cop, and let the real police handle it, none of this shit would have happened. He's guilty of manslaughter, at least, and it's looking like he's going to jail. As he should.

no, it doesn't change the fact that if zimmerman doesn't get out of car, none of this happens. you are correct about that. that is the tragedy of the situation.

unfortunately, the conclusions you draw from that inkling of factual information are devastatingly poor. the difference between murder 2 and manslaughter is all about zimmerman's state of mind. basically, whether or not the actions were perpetrated with ill will or malice. ill will is not really the main dispute in this case. he called martin a fucking punk -- if you're going to deny self defense, you may as well go ahead with murder 2.

but that's irrelevant, because in order for either of these charges to land, you need to disprove self defense. and there is insufficient evidence to disprove self defense. it is not looking like he's going to jail -- it is overwhelmingly looking like acquittal. if some miscarriage of justice does result in conviction, he is virtually certain to overturn on appeal.

[Bodeanicus]

Why didn't he just run away instead of punching him in the face then.

There's no proof that Martin threw the first punch, except the word of a proven liar.

[Misto]

So he walked into a gated community. Which is gated. To go where?

Have you ever been in a gated community?

[Misto]

There's no proof that Martin threw the first punch, except the word of a proven liar.

If this guy had a track record of hunting down black kids in the middle of the night and eating cereal out of their skulls.

Then I'd say he was lying. But he doesn't.

[Daldolma]

It's the whole point of the fucking case, you fucking idiot.

lol.

you are totally ignorant re: the laws in play in this case. stand your ground has NOTHING to do with this case. it has not been mobilized by the defense and it needn't be. as both xasten and i have explained, zimmerman's claim that he was pinned to the ground has totally eliminated any relevance SYG might have had. the only unique aspect of SYG is the removal of an obligation to retreat. if you can't retreat because your attacker is pinning you down to the ground, that difference is irrelevant. this is pure self defense, not SYG

[Bodeanicus]

no, it doesn't change the fact that if zimmerman doesn't get out of car, none of this happens. you are correct about that. that is the tragedy of the situation.

unfortunately, the conclusions you draw from that inkling of factual information are devastatingly poor. the difference between murder 2 and manslaughter is all about zimmerman's state of mind. basically, whether or not the actions were perpetrated with ill will or malice. ill will is not really the main dispute in this case. he called martin a fucking punk -- if you're going to deny self defense, you may as well go ahead with murder 2.

but that's irrelevant, because in order for either of these charges to land, you need to disprove self defense. and there is insufficient evidence to disprove self defense. it is not looking like he's going to jail -- it is overwhelmingly looking like acquittal. if some miscarriage of justice does result in conviction, he is virtually certain to overturn on appeal.

And it still doesn't change the fact that if Zimmerman hadn't gotten of his car with his 9mm security blanket and tried to play cop, and let the real police handle it, none of this shit would have happened. He's guilty of manslaughter, at least, and it's looking like he's going to jail. As he should.

Spin it anyway you like, Zimmerman caused an avoidable death due to astounding stupidity and poor judgement. Manslaughter.

[JurisDictum]

Why didn't he just run away instead of punching him in the face then.

We don't know. He could have been grabbed by the wrist. Maybe he pushed Zimmerman and than Zimmerman attacked him. Considering he has a history of being too aggressive as a security guard, domestic issues, and assaulting a police officer; it's not exactly far fetched.
Nothing to convict a guy on, but there's no reason to presume he is innocent. Especially since all he had to do (most likely) was conduct himself like most any cop would.
"Hi I'm the caption of the neighborhood watch, and I've noticed you were looking around the neighborhood, do you live here?" Rather than staring him down with those beady ass eyes like "creepy-ass cracka."

[Bodeanicus]

If this guy had a track record of hunting down black kids in the middle of the night and eating cereal out of their skulls.

Then I'd say he was lying. But he doesn't.

He has a track record of assaulting a police officer, two restraining orders for domestic violence, fired for harassing ethnic coworkers, fired for assaulting a female, and lying to a judge (perjury.) Zimmerman is a piece of shit.

[Misto]

no reason to presume he is innocent.

You'd be an excellent juror. lol..

[Bodeanicus]

lol.

you are totally ignorant re: the laws in play in this case. stand your ground has NOTHING to do with this case. it has not been mobilized by the defense and it needn't be. as both xasten and i have explained, zimmerman's claim that he was pinned to the ground has totally eliminated any relevance SYG might have had. the only unique aspect of SYG is the removal of an obligation to retreat. if you can't retreat because your attacker is pinning you down to the ground, that difference is irrelevant. this is pure self defense, not SYG

Zimmerman was aware of the SYG law, and I guarantee you it was in his mind when he got out of that car packing a gun. You're an idiot if you can't see that. There's no way he would have pursued Martin without the gun. Martin wasn't a female, after all, as Zimmerman soon found out.

[Misto]

He has a track record of assaulting a police officer, two restraining orders for domestic violence, fired for harassing ethnic coworkers, fired for assaulting a female, and lying to a judge (perjury.) Zimmerman is a piece of shit.

What does any of this have to do with the case? Or what happened that night?

[Malice_Mizer]

You'd be an excellent juror. lol..

According to you, the person has to have a literal history of committing the exact same crime that he's being accused of in order to have the appropriate "style" for the crime.

So you'd also be a wonderful juror. I don't think they let juggalos be jurors, though.

[Misto]

According to you, the person has to have a literal history of committing the exact same crime that he's being accused of in order to have the appropriate "style" for the crime.

So you'd also be a wonderful juror. I don't think they let juggalos be jurors, though.

No. It's called evidence. But go on.

[Malice_Mizer]

If this guy had a track record of hunting down black kids in the middle of the night and eating cereal out of their skulls.

Then I'd say he was lying. But he doesn't.

..? So, the restraining order, assault, and general scumbaggery of lies isn't enough of a presentation of character.

He has to have a record of committing the exact same crime?

[Bodeanicus]

What does any of this have to do with the case? Or what happened that night?

It has to with his character and habit of being a fucking asshole with an anger problem. The kind that gets you into fights. The kind that might make you want to kill the kid who is kicking your ass because your ego can't take an ass kicking like a man.

[Malice_Mizer]

By the way, Trayvon Martin was pronounced dead at 7 freaking 30 PM.

7:30PM.

Not the "middle of the night."

[Daldolma]

Zimmerman was aware of the SYG law, and I guarantee you it was in his mind when he got out of that car packing a gun. You're an idiot if you can't see that. There's no way he would have pursued Martin without the gun. Martin wasn't a female, after all, as Zimmerman soon found out.

um, what?

you're now guaranteeing what was going through zimmerman's mind when he got out of his car? going to go ahead and just ignore that, so as not to wade through that depth of stupidity.

but you don't seem to understand that even if he DID know about SYG, and even if it was on his mind, it was totally irrelevant because the facts of this case have nothing to do with SYG. he didn't need SYG. this could have happened in a non-SYG state and nothing would be substantially different. based on your comments, i do not believe you know anything about SYG, the difference between murder 2 and manslaughter, this case, or even the law in general.

but naturally, you have an extremely strong opinion on the subject.

[Misto]

It has to with his character and habit of being a fucking asshole with an anger problem. The kind that gets you into fights. The kind that might make you want to kill the kid who is kicking your ass because your ego can't take an ass kicking like a man.

I'm not going to debate you man. As this is going no where.

You can't convict someone of a crime based on their past without evidence.

[JurisDictum]

You'd be an excellent juror. lol..
So clearly...
1)You haven't read the thread (or you would see I said he shouldn't be found guilty)
2)You don't understand the difference between innocent and not guilty
3)You don't understand the concept of witness credibility
Maybe you're just a troll, or maybe just a dumbass. But I'm done with you ether way.

[Frieza_Prexus]

It's the whole point of the fucking case, you fucking idiot.

No, it's not. You are only demonstrating willful ignorance when you make such statements. I don't expect you to have read all 30+ pages of the thread, but I do expect you to check your legal theories when you're presented with evidence that you're mistaken.

However, since you seem to know the relevant laws, I respectfully request that you explain how the elements of SYG apply here in the face of Zimmerman's defense that he was pinned and unable to safely withdraw.

I eagerly await your detailed analysis of the relevant state law.

[Misto]

So clearly...
1)You haven't read the thread (or you would see I said he shouldn't be found guilty)
2)You don't understand the difference between innocent and not guilty
3)You don't understand the concept of witness credibility
Maybe you're just a troll, or maybe just a dumbass. But I'm done with you ether way.

Or maybe you just put your foot in your mouth and drool all over it.

[Daldolma]

According to you, the person has to have a literal history of committing the exact same crime that he's being accused of in order to have the appropriate "style" for the crime.

So you'd also be a wonderful juror. I don't think they let juggalos be jurors, though.

i imagine he was laughing at you because you claimed there was "no reason to presume zimmerman is innocent", when the entire american criminal trial system is founded upon a presumption of innocence.

[Reapin]

i do not discriminate. i sell my wares in accordance with the 2nd amendment of this great country. if you do not like gun shows, do not attend. if rednecks are in need of armament, i am a simple peddler of goods.

don't blame me for finding a lucrative field while promoting the ideals this great nation was founded upon. i use some of my excess for good anyway, i am very generous with my church and the troops

Your guilty concious may be healed but you are still a blood profiteer any way you slice it.

Worse than an Abortion doctor imo.

[Malice_Mizer]

Your guilty concious may be healed but you are still a blood profiteer any way you slice it.

Worse than an Abortion doctor imo.

[JurisDictum]

i imagine he was laughing at you because you claimed there was "no reason to presume zimmerman is innocent", when the entire american criminal trial system is founded upon a presumption of innocence.

They don't find people innocent in courtrooms.

[Misto]

i imagine he was laughing at you because you claimed there was "no reason to presume zimmerman is innocent", when the entire american criminal trial system is founded upon a presumption of innocence.

Ding ding ding.

Al Pacino speech inc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjFWddzhtUI

[Daldolma]

They don't find people innocent in courtrooms.

correct, but the bedrock of american criminal trial is still a presumption of innocence -- which is often restated as "innocent until proven guilty".

it has less to do with your intended meaning and more to do with your actual word choice. zimmerman, even if found not guilty, is not necessarily innocent. that is correct. but it's still humorous to claim that there is no reason to presume him innocent, given the fact that the core principle is referred to as the "presumption of innocence".

[K|mm Barely]

Misto confirmed scared white man.

[JurisDictum]

correct, but the bedrock of american criminal trial is still a presumption of innocence -- which is often restated as "innocent until proven guilty".

it has less to do with your intended meaning and more to do with your actual word choice. zimmerman, even if found not guilty, is not necessarily innocent. that is correct. but it's still humorous to claim that there is no reason to presume him innocent, given the fact that the core principle is referred to as the "presumption of innocence".

In hindsight I should have said "assume." For all pragmatic purposes..there are people that are most likely guilty that get found "not guilty." Which is all well and good for the law. But when you start talking personal opinion...the burden of proof is much lower to come to an opinion of guilt justifiably.
I personally find it equally likely that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Nothing to convict on, but there it is. Getting your ass kicked isn't evidence you didn't "start it" given the context of him following martin for blocks.

[Misto]

Misto confirmed scared white man.

As soon as the population shifts to 51% black at the pool.

I'm out.

[K|mm Barely]

Confirmed.

[Vaildez]

Zimmerman was aware of the SYG law, and I guarantee you it was in his mind when he got out of that car packing a gun. You're an idiot if you can't see that. There's no way he would have pursued Martin without the gun. Martin wasn't a female, after all, as Zimmerman soon found out.

LOL! If he was aware of the SYG he would have realized it did not apply to the situation he was in.

[Reapin]

As soon as the population shifts to 51% black at the pool.

I'm out.

Daldolma will be more than happy to sell you the gun to blow your own head off with.

[Daldolma]

In hindsight I should have said "assume." For all pragmatic purposes..there are people that are most likely guilty that get found "not guilty." Which is all well and good for the law. But when you start talking personal opinion...the burden of proof is much lower to come to an opinion of guilt justifiably.
I personally find it equally likely that Zimmerman was the aggressor. Nothing to convict on, but there it is. Getting your ass kicked isn't evidence you didn't "start it" given the context of him following martin for blocks.

that's fine. i don't agree, but i find even my own opinion more or less meaningless. what matters in this case are the facts, what can be proven objectively and unquestionably. you can't put someone in jail for 20+ years based on what you think. it has to be about what you know, within reason.

i think that zimmerman had a history of this, that he was habitually overzealous and regularly called the police, followed people, and generally pretended to be a cop. i think the variable that night was a scared, defiant teenager that felt threatened. i think that zimmerman found him and initiated his cop nonsense, asking what martin was doing. at that point, i think martin probably initiated physicality and was on top of zimmerman before zimmerman really knew what was going on. zimmerman had over 100 pounds on him -- if this was mutual violence, or a fight initiated by zimmerman, i think he'd have at least been able to do some kind of damage to trayvon before getting his nose busted, his body pinned, and his head banged against the pavement. i think he started yelling for help and when he thought it wasn't coming, he panicked, went to his gun, and shot trayvon -- just once, just to get him off, before he even had time to really evaluate what was happening.

that's what i think is most likely, given available evidence. i don't know that, though. i don't assume that's correct. i think it's very possible zimmerman shoved martin, and martin fought back. but i know that you can't disprove zimmerman's claims, given the evidence. what i believe ultimately doesn't matter. it's only one interpretation, it's not concrete. and to convict, you need concrete. you need to know beyond a reasonable doubt. nobody knows beyond a reasonable doubt except for zimmerman.

[Daldolma]

Daldolma will be more than happy to sell you the gun to blow your own head off with.

suicide is a mortal sin, i would have to consult church leaders before any such sale

[Reapin]

that's fine. i don't agree, but i find even my own opinion more or less meaningless.

Something we agree on.

[Misto]

A lot of misdirected hate in this thread. lol

[Kagatob]

A lot of misdirected hate in this thread. lol

Welcome to R&F ;)

[Daldolma]

Something we agree on.

changed my mind

[Misto]

Welcome to R&F ;)

Dis is teh rants n flameorz?

[Malice_Mizer]

Flamers abound!

[TarukShmaruk]

Honestly he's gonna get manslaughter because it's 6 women - a hen house - with no rooster to remind them that logic and evidence, not emotion, is supposed to justify their decision.

[Malice_Mizer]

Honestly he's gonna get manslaughter because it's 6 women - a hen house - with no rooster to remind them that logic and evidence, not emotion, is supposed to justify their decision.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you aren't using emotion?

That's the laughable thing about this-- nothing is objective. Objectivity is a myth. You bring to the table your own preconceived notions about life. Logic and evidence serve to justify your own cognitive consistency, not the other way around, friend.

[Daldolma]

Honestly he's gonna get manslaughter because it's 6 women - a hen house - with no rooster to remind them that logic and evidence, not emotion, is supposed to justify their decision.

flagrant sexism aside, i've heard this type of analysis frequently. basically, that the jury will split the difference with manslaughter based on the emotional pull of martin

i think that shows a sad lack of faith in the jurors. the evidence is flatly insufficient to disprove self defense. that should be the beginning and end of this case, and i believe that at least 1 of the jurors -- and ideally, all 6 of them -- will arrive at that conclusion. unless you agree that self defense has been disproved beyond a reasonable doubt, you cannot even convict him of manslaughter.

i find it very likely that he is acquitted, or at the least, that the jury is hung. if he is convicted, i believe the ruling would almost definitely be overturned on appeal

[Frieza_Prexus]

It's the whole point of the fucking case, you fucking idiot.

I was going to wait a bit longer for you to respond, but I'm going to bed so I'll just leave this here.

776.012 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.html) of the Florida Criminal code is the relevant section on the justifiable use of force. In that section is where you'll find the SYG law which states that there is no duty to retreat in cases of self-defense.

However, should the SYG section be repealed Florida would use the "minority" rule which states that before using deadly force in self-defense "any opportunity to retreat MUST be taken before using deadly force ONLY if retreat is possible with COMPLETE SAFETY." Thus, Florida's use of SYG is irrelevant because Zimmerman's defense is that he used self-defense and was unable to retreat thereby nullifying any possible relevance of the SYG provision. That's it. In this particular case, it is an all or nothing situation. His account either works or it does not. At no point is SYG being asserted as part of his defense, and in no way is it relevant.

I understand that this case is important to you, and that you have very strong feelings over it. However, I respectfully suggest that your arguments would be more persuasive if you would take the time to properly educate yourself.

As before, I humbly invite rebuttal, and I look forward to your well-reasoned and legally supported arguments regarding the use of SYG in the present case.

[Guttzs]

Hi there. Look below for a graphic explanation of what actually happened.

[Reapin]

Honestly he's gonna get manslaughter because it's 6 women - a hen house - with no rooster to remind them that logic and evidence, not emotion, is supposed to justify their decision.

BS. Women are extreme in their beliefs. Racism, Religion what have you, they hunker down and tend to not use logic to make a decision. All they need is for one of those women to be a victim of a crime perpetrated by a black man and Zim is free.

[Daldolma]

All they need is for one of those women to have a rudimentary understanding of the law and Zim is free.

fixed

[Bodeanicus]

suicide is a mortal sin, i would have to consult church leaders before any such sale

Killing teenage ******s in "self defense" is awesome, thought, right?

[Vaildez]

If I had a son he'd look like George Zimmerman's cousin.

[Kagatob]

BS. Women are extreme in their beliefs. Racism, Religion what have you, they hunker down and tend to not use logic to make a decision. All they need is for one of those women to be a mother of an "innocent child" and bam Zim is in jail.

FTFY

It goes both ways, moreso in this direction I can assure you.

[Asap]

Humble rebuttals don't exist in RnF frieza

[Hasbinbad]

Humble rebuttals
READING COMPREHENSION LEVEL: a froglok tad

[Daldolma]

pretty great rebuttal from prosecution

they've totally departed from making legal arguments but they're tugging at the heart strings pretty hard. the closing arguments from the state were much stronger than those of the defense

[Malice_Mizer]

pretty great rebuttal from prosecution

they've totally departed from making legal arguments but they're tugging at the heart strings pretty hard. the closing arguments from the state were much stronger than those of the defense

Agreed!

Funny to see that they didn't employ Don West after his fiasco of an opener.

But O'Mara was always the "folksy/nice" one of the odd couple.

Anyone want to engage in some yaoi John Guy fanfic? I've got pages and pages of the shit waiting to be consumed by the public.

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

http://i.imgur.com/Slor2PQ.gif

[SamwiseRed]

omg lol

[Daldolma]

justice be done

[TarukShmaruk]

So happy to be wrong. Way to go jurors.

[Mesenkomaha]

It is interesting seeing comments from people who don't understand the law screaming "how can he NOT be guilty?"

Rather the question is how could he be? The burden of proof is on the state and they couldn't prove that Zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense. Reasonable doubt folks.

"The police told him not to follow!!!" No law was broken by doing this and is frankly irrelevant. "He shot Trayvon and he's dead!" Zimmerman claims self defense and freemen have a right to defend themselves.

Open and shut case. Those who disagree are arguing with feelings not the law.

[Kagatob]

Don't need 4 threads for this by the way. Let the marathon keep running.

[Flamewraith]

I believe that this was the correct conclusion to this case. In my opinion Zimmerman should receive the rights of "suck it" to Martin's parents because of the way they mercilessly worked to squander Zimmerman's reputation and make him sound like a cold hearted racist killer.

[KessonDaslef]

Just an F.Y.I. she's 14 and depicted as such... :p



Certain people don't want to post in a thread created by a pedophile.

[TarukShmaruk]

It is interesting seeing comments from people who don't understand the law screaming "how can he NOT be guilty?"

Rather the question is how could he be? The burden of proof is on the state and they couldn't prove that Zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense. Reasonable doubt folks.

"The police told him not to follow!!!" No law was broken by doing this and is frankly irrelevant. "He shot Trayvon and he's dead!" Zimmerman claims self defense and freemen have a right to defend themselves.

Open and shut case. Those who disagree are arguing with feelings not the law.

Amen - I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Justice was served today and I'm reminded that there's still a little bit of sanity left in the world.

And shout outs to Mark O'Mara and his legal team - they really believed in George and saw firsthand how badly he was getting railroaded.