My anti-military thread..

[Hasbinbad]

Was deleted.

I post this picture in memorium.

'Mericuh; fuck yeah.

http://i.imgur.com/lV4629h.jpg

[Tippett]

love opinions from people with 7th hand information (in relation to our involvement in other countries)

im sure you believe everything you read on the internet or see on TV

[Hasbinbad]

Hey Tippett, what happened to the guy in the picture in the OP?

[Tippett]

i've read your regurgitated anti military rants on these boards

thats wut i was referencing

[Hasbinbad]

IDC about that, I asked you a question. What happened to that guy?

[Tippett]

looks like ol boy got burned up if i had to take a guess

idk why they deleted thread tho, shoulda at worst moved it ot off topic

[Hasbinbad]

Right, G.W.Bush (also pictured) sent him to Iraq to kill Iraqi people where he was blowed up (lol).

Ok. Question #2:

What is G.W.Bush doing in that picture?

[Hasbinbad]

Oh, is he giving him a T-Shirt?

[Hasbinbad]

This has got to be a joke right?

I got blowed up in Iraq, and all I got was this crummy T-Shirt.

THIS CAN'T BE FUCKING REALITY, CAN IT?!?!?

[Daldolma]

hero pictured

[Godefroi]

My Brother flies this

http://www.pixstel.com/french-army-ec665-tigre_picm128-12808.jpg

currently toasting mujis in Mali

0 fucks given

[Hasbinbad]

hero pictured
Gettin blowed up for our freedumbs.

[Tippett]

yeah im sure the president personally makes all the decisions in relation to foreign conflict, dam GW why u so evil

your also misleading when you say soldiers were "sent to kill"

if you had any experience in conflict over seas you would be aware the US is incredibly passive with RoE's and interactions with foreigners (threats or otherwise) to the point imo of unreasonable danger (to the soldiers) actually

it takes some very extreme escalation of force (basically they have to be trying to kill you) from a threat before anyone is "killed" in combat

that is only from my experience in afghanistan though to be fair, although the unit i was attached to(high risk of combat) had followed the same SOPs for years including operations conducted in Iraq

[Hasbinbad]

Extremely Passive:

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5rXPrfnU3G0?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5rXPrfnU3G0?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[Hasbinbad]

RoE's are really more like guidelines aren't they? I mean, when shit like ^ gets swept under the rug but for a TRUE hero like Bradley..

[Hasbinbad]

Bradley is a military guy I could respect. Needs a job and or training, so joins up, but then when he finds out how shit is fucked up and bullshit, he blows the whistle.

Zero fucks given for shrapnel sandwiches handed out to imperial colonists by freedom fighters.

[finalgrunt]

it takes some very extreme escalation of force (basically they have to be trying to kill you) from a threat before anyone is "killed" in combat

that is only from my experience in afghanistan though to be fair, although the unit i was attached to(high risk of combat) had followed the same SOPs for years including operations conducted in Iraq

I don't think drone attacks follow that pattern.

[Hasbinbad]

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6bMLrA_0O5I?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6bMLrA_0O5I?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[Hasbinbad]

I don't think drone attacks follow that pattern.
Oh damn I got backup this time?

[Hasbinbad]

Better be careful siding with ol' HBB Daimadoshi; Alarti might call you names.

[Tippett]

cant retort to video, all embedded videos are blocked by a proxy i use for this site ever since i started getting malware flags like a year ago heh

yes the RoE are simply absurd in restrictiveness, but like all things in life there are some exceptions where people go full retard.

between mandatory call outs (native translators making people in a village or compound aware of us coming and that we mean no harm) as our forces approach to having to treat combat casualties (even enemies during a fire fight) really puts soldiers in danger while conducting operations

I have been in about 6 fire fights and every single one was reactive to being fired upon after a loud call out, and even verbal warnings to desist firing upon NATO forces

[Hasbinbad]

My Brother .. currently toasting mujis in Mali

0 fucks given
Let's hope he gets a T-Shirt, if you know what I mean.

[Hasbinbad]

cant retort to video, all embedded videos are blocked by a proxy i use for this site ever since i started getting malware flags like a year ago heh

yes the RoE are simply absurd in restrictiveness, but like all things in life there are some exceptions where people go full retard.

between mandatory call outs (native translators making people in a village or compound aware of us coming and that we mean no harm) as our forces approach to having to treat combat casualties (even enemies during a fire fight) really puts soldiers in danger while conducting operations

I have been in about 6 fire fights and every single one was reactive to being fired upon after a loud call out, and even verbal warnings to desist firing upon NATO forces
The video is Collateral Murder, an annotated and edited version of the video Bradley Manning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning) gave to Wikileaks, and for which he is being "charged with a number of offenses, including communicating national defense information to an unauthorized source and aiding the enemy." The video is shot from the perspective of an apache while they gleefully murder reuters employees and shoot at a van full of children.

[Tippett]

freedom fighters.

i guess you can call enormous extremely wealthy heroin production/distribution cartels freedom fighters if you want

specially when they routinely kill and intimidate farmers who try to avoid getting involved in the drug trade (Extremely forbidden by muslim teachings) and force them do use/farm/distribute narcotics

but like i said in my first post its one of those things u gotta see to understand, because no one can put a manipulative spin on something you visually see and experience personally

[Hasbinbad]

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

[Hasbinbad]

i guess you can call enormous extremely wealthy heroin production/distribution cartels freedom fighters if you want

specially when they routinely kill and intimidate farmers who try to avoid getting involved in the drug trade (Extremely forbidden by muslim teachings) and force them do use/farm/distribute narcotics

but like i said in my first post its one of those things u gotta see to understand, because no one can put a manipulative spin on something you visually see and experience personally
YES BECAUSE EVERYONE WE'VE EVER MURDERED HAS BEEN PART OF AN EXTREMELY WEALTHY HEROIN CARTEL

I am so full of lol at your mental turbidity. Day to day, how do you see through all the sand?

[Daldolma]

how do you people continue to take hbb seriously

[Hasbinbad]

how do you people continue to take hbb seriously
http://i.imgur.com/ahYvJwE.gif

[Tippett]

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

yeah a handful of people out of millions of military members did not do what they were suppose to

that hasn't happened in every other organization in the history of civilization has it?

[Hasbinbad]

a handful
I only used SEQ that one time, HONEST!

[Tippett]

YES BECAUSE EVERYONE WE'VE EVER MURDERED HAS BEEN PART OF AN EXTREMELY WEALTHY HEROIN CARTEL?

i can only speak of the conflicts i participated in, and yes of every single "enemy" combat casualty (over 100+) it was either a training camp raid scenario sponsored/manned by a psuedo drug/mafia like organization or an attempt to arrest members of said organization who undermine/threaten the afghan voted in goverment (much like in mexico tbh)

i cannot speak for iraq, and i cannot speak for conflicts i was not involved in

i can only assume, and unlike you i respect the old saying in relation to assuming you know certain things

also it's not "WE" individuals are responsible for their personal actions

[Tippett]

how do you people continue to take hbb seriously

it was obviously bait from the start but i like arguing/displaying my opinions on the internet

or why else would i participate in internet forums

[Hasbinbad]

Try telling that to a mother whose bloody child is limp in her arms. You try telling her that it was the individual soldiers responsibility, and that the US as a whole has nothing to do with it. Tell it to the child who will grow up fatherless and on the streets because some gung ho fuck thought his cellphone was a weapon. You tell them it had nothing to do with you buddy.

You're a cog in the machine, as am I, and that makes us culpable for the woes of the machine.

To deny that is inhuman.

[Tippett]

i grew up without a father and it had nothing to do with soldiers or conflict its called life situations that are unfair happen

children get hit by cars every day and die and you could consider that unfair as well and i guess you could hold the driver responsible technically, but honestly mistakes happen when human elements are involved in anything in life

you are trying to hold an organization, run and created by human beings to a standard that is above humanity in general

[Hasbinbad]

No, I'm holding individuals who perpetuate an organization responsible for the actions of that organization.

[Hasbinbad]

There is no such thing as a Good German (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_German).

[Tippett]

the individuals responsible for the actions of that organization are the voters who vote in congressmen who as an entity have the real decision making power for what our military is ordered to do

so you are not anti military, you are anti average US citizen

[Hasbinbad]

The military could not function without soldiers, seamen, airmen, and marines. Therefore all troops are culpable for holding up the military.

But you're also right about average citizens being culpable as well.

When a hitman kills, the killer as well as the employer can be charged with murder.

[Hasbinbad]

And really thats all military people are: actual or latent contract killers.

[Hasbinbad]

And you don't even have the balls to embrace your proud mercenary heritage. Instead you lie (mostly to yourselves) and euphemize your "getting paid to possibly have to kill other people" to "service," which brings me no end of laughter.

[Tippett]

i get paid to conduct military photographical/videographical documentation for operational/historical purposes

and by "service" I do what I am ordered to do by the commander in chief ( who takes orders from congress ) who is voted in by the average us citizen

so yes i do "serve" the average us citizen as they are the ones who command me where to go and what to document

[Hasbinbad]

And then have the gall to whine about it when you get your come-uppins and get your leg or balls blown off.

That paycheck was worth it right?

But don't worry, the socialist VA will take care of you on my dime.

http://i.imgur.com/tr4lmQL.gif

Oh, maybe they are too busy paying for wars..

[Hasbinbad]

i get paid to conduct military photographical/videographical documentation for operational/historical purposes
So if a "real" war broke out they couldn't put your boots on the ground if they felt they needed to?

[Hasbinbad]

and by "service" I do what I am ordered to do by the commander in chief ( who takes orders from congress ) who is voted in by the average us citizen

so yes i do "serve" the average us citizen as they are the ones who command me where to go and what to document
"Serve" is not generally used in that sense by military people and you know it.

[Autotune]

guessing HBB got punked by some military guys again, thus taking his anger out on these forums.

[Tippett]

i had boots on ground, i am combat documentation production specialist (stupid wordy title i know)

on just my first deployment i was attached to a "unnamed unit" conducting light infantry operations

[Tippett]

And then have the gall to whine about it when you get your come-uppins and get your leg or balls blown off.

That paycheck was worth it right?

But don't worry, the socialist VA will take care of you on my dime.

http://i.imgur.com/tr4lmQL.gif

Oh, maybe they are too busy paying for wars..

what has this got to do with anything, if people cant afford to take care of themselves that is their own fault. and yes government jobs like many private sector jobs do offer you health benefits (most you have to optionally buy into like any insurance plan)

if ur talking about people whos legs get blown off, yes they receive disability just like you would if you were born without a leg

and i guess it would "be on your dime" (soldiers pay taxes to btw)

[Hasbinbad]

guessing HBB got punked by some military guys again, thus taking his anger out on these forums.
Just bored.
i had boots on ground, i am combat documentation production specialist (stupid wordy title i know)

on just my first deployment i was attached to a "unnamed unit" conducting light infantry operations
You know what I mean. Stop trying to be sly, it contrasts too heavily with your lemming-like idolatry.

If they felt that they needed you to carry a gun onto a battlefield and shoot someone, they could order you to do so, correct?

If you refused, they could put you in jail, correct?

[Tippett]

"Serve" is not generally used in that sense by military people and you know it.

wut served only means one thing

you "served" the people of the united states because they are the ones who tell you what to do

[Hasbinbad]

what has this got to do with anything
I'm pointing out that wounded vets are whiney cunts that should have thought about that shit before they signed a contract to possibly kill people. Why the fuck do I have to pay for their bad career choice?

[Tippett]

If they felt that they needed you to carry a gun onto a battlefield and shoot someone, they could order you to do so, correct?

If you refused, they could put you in jail, correct?

1. no one has to "order" me to defend myself against people trying to mortally wound me, ill do it on my own

2. no, no one will put you in prison if you do not defend yourself or another soldier. but chances are you would have weaseled out of it long before you ever got anywhere near a combat situation (see previous post on nerds complaining about ankles or stress) if you were that timid to not defend urself or your coworker

[Tippett]

I'm pointing out that wounded vets are whiney cunts that should have thought about that shit before they signed a contract to possibly kill people. Why the fuck do I have to pay for their bad career choice?

if a nurse pulls her back moving a patient, loses her job and goes on disability you are paying for their bad career choice

yet again, a problem with the average us citizen

seems like you have a habit of attributing common human issues to the military when they can be applied in almost any organization

and yes i agree people that are "homeless vets" and cry for aid (outside of getting disability for actual physical limitations) are faggots, its no one else's job to take care of you are the military enforces that mentality more than any civilian I know

[Hasbinbad]

wut served only means one thing
serv·ice

¹ [sur-vis] Show IPA noun, adjective, verb, serv·iced, serv·ic·ing.
noun 1. an act of helpful activity; help; aid: to do someone a service.

2. the supplying or supplier of utilities or commodities, as water, electricity, or gas, required or demanded by the public.

3. the providing or a provider of accommodation and activities required by the public, as maintenance, repair, etc.: The manufacturer guarantees service and parts.

4. the organized system of apparatus, appliances, employees, etc., for supplying some accommodation required by the public: a television repair service.

5. the supplying or a supplier of public communication and transportation: telephone service; bus service.

6. the performance of duties or the duties performed as or by a waiter or servant; occupation or employment as a waiter or servant.

7. employment in any duties or work for a person, organization (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/organization), government, etc.

8. a department of public employment, an administrative division of a government, or the body of public servants in it: the diplomatic service.

9. the duty or work of public servants.

10. the serving of a sovereign, state, or government in some official capacity.

11. Military . a. the armed forces: in the service.

b. a branch of the armed forces, as the army or navy: Which service were you in during the war?



12. Ordnance . the actions required in loading and firing a cannon: service of the piece.

13. Often, services. the performance of any duties or work for another; helpful or professional activity: medical services.

14. something made or done by a commercial organization for the public benefit and without regard to direct profit: Certain books are published at a loss as a public service.

15. Also called divine service (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/divine%20service). public religious worship according to prescribed form and order.

16. a ritual or form prescribed for public worship or for some particular occasion: the marriage (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marriage) service.

17. the serving of God by obedience, piety, etc.: voluntary service.

18. a musical setting of the sung portions of a liturgy.

19. a set (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/set) of dishes, utensils, etc., for general table use or for particular use: a tea service; service for eight.

20. answering service (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/answering%20service).

21. Law. the serving of a process or writ upon a person.

22. Nautical . tarred spun yarn or other small stuff for covering the exterior of a rope.

23. a. the act or manner of putting the ball or shuttlecock into play; serve (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/serve).

b. the ball or shuttlecock as put into play.



24. the mating of a female animal with the male.



adjective 25. of service; useful.

26. of, pertaining to, or used by servants (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/servant), delivery people, etc., or in serving (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/serving) food: service stairs; the service pieces in a set of dishes.

27. supplying aids or services rather than products or goods: Medicine is one of the service professions.

28. supplying maintenance and repair: He operates a service center for electrical appliances.

29. of, for, or pertaining to the armed forces of a country or one of them: a service academy.

30. charged for providing service: a service fee of 15 percent on the restaurant check.

31. providing, authorizing, or guaranteeing service: a service industry; a service contract.


you "served" the people of the united states because they are the ones who tell you what to do
The term service as it is used by military people has tones of duty and honor when they use it. That is fucking bullshit. That duty is self-imposed, and does not exist outside of a monetary contract between you and the federal government. That honor is something you convince yourself of (or allow your recruiter/drill instructor to convince you of) in spite of the obviousness of the truth.

You're trying to use the service-industry style of the term to deflect that, even though you know damn well that particular rhetoric is thick.

[Tippett]

guessing HBB got punked by some military guys again, thus taking his anger out on these forums.

hes from california, im not familiar but i think there is alot of marine bases there

and yeah a lot of marines are douchey 19 year olds, that have a stupid "alpha male" culture worse than the other services by far

[Hasbinbad]

1. no one has to "order" me to defend myself against people trying to mortally wound me, ill do it on my own

2. no, no one will put you in prison if you do not defend yourself or another soldier. but chances are you would have weaseled out of it long before you ever got anywhere near a combat situation (see previous post on nerds complaining about ankles or stress) if you were that timid to not defend urself or your coworker
So if your CO tells you to do something, you're free to refuse?

[Tippett]

ur just being gay by doing the dictionary thing, im sure many words have multiple meanings by definition

you are applying inaccurate stereotypes though to be fair, im sure I know dozens more military members then you and i can think of only 1 or 2 that would try to go to like a bar or something and be all gay and proud with the whole "I SERVED" thing and wear an army knock off affliction t shirt with his dog tags sticking out

even we think those guys are fags

[Tippett]

So if your CO tells you to do something, you're free to refuse?

you asked if you would go to prison, i said no you would'nt

[Hasbinbad]

you asked if you would go to prison, i said no you would'nt
So you're free to refuse any order you feel like?

[Hasbinbad]

even we think those guys are fags
You just don't get it. Even if you're not, you are those guys.

[Hasbinbad]

I want you to think about the word uniform for a moment.

[Tippett]

You just don't get it. Even if you're not, you are those guys.

that doesnt make sense is probably why i dont get it

[Tippett]

I want you to think about the word uniform for a moment.

something you wear when you go to work

this conversation has peaked i think

[Hasbinbad]

that doesnt make sense is probably why i dont get it
It does make sense. When you wear the swastika, you're a fucking nazi.
something you wear when you go to work

this conversation has peaked i think
See above.

[Tippett]

It does make sense. When you wear the swastika, you're a fucking nazi.

See above.

yeah when i wear a us army uniform in in the fucking army

still not getting correlation to obnoxious faggot with dogtags out at the bar thinking everyone owes him something for doing what he was paid to do

connect the dots please

[Tippett]

im* in

[Hasbinbad]

Because you're of one form. Uni-form, if you will. You're all the fucking same in that you all work for the same goals, whether or not you actually brag about plugging hajis like some of your brethren. You wear the swastika on your arm, you're a nazi.

[Hasbinbad]

(the swastika is the us military uniform in this analogy)

[Hasbinbad]

/em waits for comprehension of the analogy to dawn on you.

[Tippett]

Because you're of one form. Uni-form, if you will. You're all the fucking same in that you all work for the same goals, whether or not you actually brag about plugging hajis like some of your brethren. You wear the swastika on your arm, you're a nazi.

uniform is matching clothing man you are quite the dramatic one i can see

and yes we all work for the same goals at work (AT WORK) i guess if one guy at a dairy queen gets a DUI then everyone there should go to jail because 8 hours a day they where the same shirt right

your points are stupid man, and extremely dramatic and theatrical

guess daldoma was rite, not that i dont appreciate some good forum participation

[Autotune]

Just bored.



I'll allow it.

[Hasbinbad]

Except at dairy queen there is not the possibility of the manager ordering you to kill someone.

[Autotune]

Because you're of one form. Uni-form, if you will. You're all the fucking same in that you all work for the same goals, whether or not you actually brag about plugging hajis like some of your brethren. You wear the swastika on your arm, you're a nazi.

You have white skin, you pay for the crimes of your kin.

[Hasbinbad]

I'll allow it.
Judges?

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82985625/

[Autotune]

Hbb just moved on to gang colors.

[Hasbinbad]

You have white skin, you pay for the crimes of your kin.
Except that people do not choose the color of their skin. Every person in the military chose to be there.

[Autotune]

Except that people do not choose the color of their skin. Every person in the military chose to be there.

for different reasons.

[Hasbinbad]

Hbb just moved on to gang colors.
Where do you think gangs get their swag from bro?

[Tippett]

u jump around too much

first u said u hated loud army faggots who are overly proud and said all members were like that,

then u tried to say that since we wear the same uniform were all responsible for wut each other do,

now its my boss can technically by old archaic rarely used army regulation tell me to kill someone (would never happen) that makes me a nazi,

at least address the original counterpoints instead of just hopping around to avoid the obvious logic flaws i point out

[Hasbinbad]

for different reasons.
Reasons for joining a mercenary organization sounds like a great topic for a different conversation.

[Autotune]

Reasons for joining a mercenary organization sounds like a great topic for a different conversation.

nope.

Plenty of people join the military for their own reasons, some want to work toward not being in debt, some come from shitty families where their only real option to get a fresh start is joining the military.

Very few, join to kill habeeb algebra

[Hasbinbad]

u jump around too much

first u said u hated loud army faggots who are overly proud and said all members were like that,

then u tried to say that since we wear the same uniform were all responsible for wut each other do,

now its my boss can technically by old archaic rarely used army regulation tell me to kill someone (would never happen) that makes me a nazi,

at least address the original counterpoints instead of just hopping around to avoid the obvious logic flaws i point out
Excuse me for making more than one point. I know it's hard for you to follow.

If you'll tell me which counterpoints you made which I did not address, I will gladly do so. Also, I do not believe you have pointed out any "logic flaws," but if you point those out I will gladly stop avoiding them.

[Hasbinbad]

nope.

Plenty of people join the military for their own reasons, some want to work toward not being in debt, some come from shitty families where their only real option to get a fresh start is joining the military.

Very few, join to kill habeeb algebra
Yes, but in the end they agree to kill habeeb algebra should the need arise.

[Tippett]

ur just using circular logic now,

all of ur points were legitmately considered and debunked by an active duty member of the military

is ur dramatic and theatrical display not satisfied

[Hasbinbad]

ur just using circular logic now,

all of ur points were legitmately considered and debunked by an active duty member of the military

is ur dramatic and theatrical display not satisfied
What the?
I don't even..

THAT SHIT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE

[Tippett]

still waiting on this one honestly:


Originally Posted by Hasbinbad
It does make sense. When you wear the swastika, you're a fucking nazi.

Poliwhirl:

yeah when i wear a us army uniform in in the fucking army

still not getting correlation to obnoxious faggot with dogtags out at the bar thinking everyone owes him something for doing what he was paid to do

connect the dots please

10720]Because you're of one form. Uni-form, if you will. You're all the fucking same in that you all work for the same goals, whether or not you actually brag about plugging hajis like some of your brethren. You wear the swastika on your arm, you're a nazi.[/QUOTE]

this defense of your point is laughable

[Hasbinbad]

Why is it laughable?

[Tippett]

What the?
I don't even..

THAT SHIT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE

its possible ive been internet arguing for awhile now, and on multiple threads so i may be losing my forumquest stamina

you may defeat me through sheer endurance im afraid to admit

[Hasbinbad]

its possible ive been internet arguing for awhile now, and on multiple threads so i may be losing my forumquest stamina

you may defeat me through sheer endurance im afraid to admit
I troll at high altitudes for 2 months a year so that I am prepared at all times for the likes of you.

[Autotune]

nope.

Plenty of people join the military for their own reasons, some want to work toward not being in debt, some come from shitty families where their only real option to get a fresh start is joining the military.

Very few, join to kill habeeb algebra

My point is, most see joining the military (before all these oil wars) as starting a new life at the cost of possibly risking their life for 4-6 years or so.

When your government tells them they must go overseas, they will have to. They've gambled and now pay the price, while you... do whatever it is you do.

You're judging them as if they aren't people, well they are.

I bet the vast majority of them joined so they wouldn't have a mountain of school loans to pay off as well. However, if it makes you feel better to constantly make fun of the grunts who were just trying to make a life better than they previously had, go right ahead. Live in your fantasy land where people are signing up to murder sand people b/c they are different.

Most anyone who spends time with socializing with actual people and not college hippy freeloaders see how things are for the military grunts. They chose to join and defend, got called to war and now have to fight or risk being at the "mercy" of the us government.

[Tippett]

Why is it laughable?

this was in response to you saying all military members were "LOUD I SERVED FAGGOTS"

and i told you a huge majority are not because i actually know military members and the obnoxious dog tag nerds are few and far in between

then u tried ot make some point about us wearing the same uniform at work meaning we all behaved the same off duty or something

it just didnt make sense

[Autotune]

Yes, but in the end they agree to kill habeeb algebra should the need arise.

Yeah, but they don't get to determine if they need to or not.

They are told they will kill in defense (for our people or for others that can't defend themselves, etc)

Not

We are going to send you to kill these guys under the guise of WMDs but in reality we just want that oil.

Problem is, once you sign up for the top, you have no rights to disagree if they send you for the bottom. You're just above a slave in your rights as a human.

[Autotune]

Also, i'm tired and not even checking any of this shit I type out.

[Tippett]

When your government tells them they must go overseas, they will have to.

this part isnt true, a huge amount of military members are complete leeches on the system who are malingering

its actually an enormous fucking problem in the military, the ones who actually go overseas are typically people who actually have work ethic and appreciate what the american people are providing them


and to ur other point yes i do feel like i had to join the military to avoid student debt for my future education, i was raised in extreme poverty with absolutely no generational wealth

so now i have to jump through additional fucking hoops in order to build any generational wealth for my child

its extremely unfucking fair, but that's life and its going to be the way it is whether we choose to accept it or not

[Hasbinbad]

My point is, most see joining the military (before all these oil wars) as starting a new life at the cost of possibly risking their life for 4-6 years or so.

When your government tells them they must go overseas, they will have to. They've gambled and now pay the price, while you... do whatever it is you do.

You're judging them as if they aren't people, well they are.

I bet the vast majority of them joined so they wouldn't have a mountain of school loans to pay off as well. However, if it makes you feel better to constantly make fun of the grunts who were just trying to make a life better than they previously had, go right ahead. Live in your fantasy land where people are signing up to murder sand people b/c they are different.

Most anyone who spends time with socializing with actual people and not college hippy freeloaders see how things are for the military grunts. They chose to join and defend, got called to war and now have to fight or risk being at the "mercy" of the us government.
So you're saying that there are no opportunities in the USA for making a living other than the military?

[Tippett]

autotune man u have a good attitude but ur kinda over dramatizing it along with hasbinbad, its not like u get there and your ordered to kill people

i deployed with ranger regiment, trust me i know

this is kinda wut my original post was about people who haven't been there having these strange almost theatrical opinions on the military

[Tippett]

So you're saying that there are no opportunities in the USA for making a living other than the military?

im done arguing with you, you just completely avoid counterpoints

[Hasbinbad]

this was in response to you saying all military members were "LOUD I SERVED FAGGOTS"

and i told you a huge majority are not because i actually know military members and the obnoxious dog tag nerds are few and far in between

then u tried ot make some point about us wearing the same uniform at work meaning we all behaved the same off duty or something

it just didnt make sense
You're making a distinction I do not recognize. As far as I'm concerned, while you're under contract, you're never "off duty." They can call you back any time until that contract runs out, right?

And I used language to insinuate that even tho you may in fact have different personalities, you're all still ants slaved to that contract.

You still never answered my question about refusing orders. The picture you're painting is that people can not shoot people they have been ordered to shoot if they don't want to. I've asked you if it's ok to refuse orders, and you completely sidestepped that.

[Hasbinbad]

im done arguing with you, you just completely avoid counterpoints
On the contrary, I feel that I have answered you at every point, and furthermore I have actively sought out deeper understanding of your points so that I might reply in a more sapient fashion. You on the other have have made many points which are not salient to the topic, trying to drag my attention this way and that, without actually answering the few direct questions I've asked you.

Look in the mirror man.

[Tippett]

The picture you're painting is that people can not shoot people they have been ordered to shoot if they don't want to. I've asked you if it's ok to refuse orders, and you completely sidestepped that.

since i was criticizing you for dodging points ill go a bit more into detail for you on this one, i like giving people insight into actual military goings on that haven't been sensationalized for profit by media organizations

if the hypothetical situation came up where i was ordered by a higher ranking officer to just "kill" someone who did attack me first or even if they did, no i would not have to do it.

later they could bring me to a ucmj trial i suppose (they never would its an enormous inconvenience for everyone involved) where i would be tried for refusal to follow an order. and I could just say i was anxious or didn't feel competent to make the decision at the time and I would never be convicted/punished

[Tippett]

didn't* attack me first

yeah ive been up all night, its one of those manic weekends haha

[Hasbinbad]

if the hypothetical situation came up where i was ordered by a higher ranking officer to just "kill" someone who did attack me first or even if they did, no i would not have to do it.
Even if those orders conform to the UCOMJ?

[Hasbinbad]

I think you take an oath or something that directly contradicts what you're saying right now.

[Hasbinbad]

Do you not take your oath seriously?

[Tippett]

I think you take an oath or something that directly contradicts what you're saying right now.

I also didn't believe in the "under god" part when I was told to recite the pledge of allegiance in 3rd grade, did I do it? Yes. Did I agree with the general principle of the Pledge? Yes.

But this isn't some movie or fairy tale where people ignore common sense or humanity over some Oath or Pledge.

The oath is a tradition, an archaic one imo at that. If I get told to slaughter some one for no fucking reason I'm not going to do it.

If you believe most people in the military would then you are naive or gullible, people don't magically lose their common sense because they enlist in the military.

[SamwiseRed]

actually it is a soldiers responsibility to do what is right legally or morally. if an officer is giving you a wrongful order, you have the right to refuse. soldiers != lemmings.

[SamwiseRed]

i think some people in this thread base the military off of movies, lawl

[Hasbinbad]

people don't magically lose their common sense because they enlist in the military.
Then explain Abu Ghraib

http://i.imgur.com/1HGybDY.jpg

[Hasbinbad]

actually it is a soldiers responsibility to do what is right legally or morally. if an officer is giving you a wrongful order, you have the right to refuse. soldiers != lemmings.
What if the order is rightful?

[Tippett]

i think some people in this thread base the military off of movies, lawl

yeah seems that way sam, we are all knights bound by oath ordered to murder innocent freedom fighters by george bush

we are forced into knighthood because of our lazy and evil ways, and we all have huge senses of entitlement

not sure if this all is srs or dum

[Tippett]

Then explain Abu Ghraib]

they didnt lose common sense, they never had any

i also highly doubt they were "ordered to do that"

they where wut i referenced earlier "handful of retards out of millions"

didnt those guys all get kicked out btw?

[Hasbinbad]

I made no statement about the rightness of the order. It is disingenuous of you to infer I was speaking of only wrongful orders and then argue against that position as if I was the one presenting it. That sir, is a straw man.

[Hasbinbad]

they didnt lose common sense, they never had any

i also highly doubt they were "ordered to do that"

they where wut i referenced earlier "handful of retards out of millions"

didnt those guys all get kicked out btw?
Just like Perun is the only SEQ user in late-model IB, and just like he only did it once, I'm sure you're right.

WTF, no.

Where there is one visible cockroach, there are millions in the walls.

[Hasbinbad]

Serious fucking question:

How many "individuals" need to commit atrocities before the organization becomes complicit?

[Hasbinbad]

Do 100 people need to be sexually assaulted? 1,000? 10,000?

How many children need to be incinerated in hospitals before I can blame the government without you patronizing me? 10? 100? 1,000?

[SamwiseRed]

Then explain Abu Ghraib

http://i.imgur.com/1HGybDY.jpg

those people are morans. there are morans everywhere. there are some pretty dumbass civilians, does that mean all civilians are dumbasses? cmon man, no matter what organization you find, there will always be someone doing something wrong.

[Hasbinbad]

What is the cost that is too much?

[Tippett]

Just like Perun is the only SEQ user in late-model IB, and just like he only did it once, I'm sure you're right.

WTF, no.

Where there is one visible cockroach, there are millions in the walls.

your assuming again,

assuming past someone who actually experiences it daily,

what happened there was someone who was in charge was a dum fag, and no one had the balls to stand up to them.

its like an alignment of planets between spineless followers and toxic leaders, its in no way common that both of those circumstances line up in that way

[Hasbinbad]

those people are morans. there are morans everywhere. there are some pretty dumbass civilians, does that mean all civilians are dumbasses? cmon man, no matter what organization you find, there will always be someone doing something wrong.
Ya just like perun was the only bad apple and just like he only did it once, I'm sure the military is full of bronies and cat lovers and appreciators of ballet except those 2 people in that one picture.

[Tippett]

i can see those guys ballsacks too wtf,

i woulda punched the faggot in charge's face for exposing me to other dudes sacks

[Hasbinbad]

your assuming again,

assuming past someone who actually experiences it daily,

what happened there was someone who was in charge was a dum fag, and no one had the balls to stand up to them.

its like an alignment of planets between spineless followers and toxic leaders, its in no way common that both of those circumstances line up in that way
Except that as technology advances, we find out about this shit more and more often.

So, how many is too many? I want you to put a number on it.

[Hasbinbad]

How many atrocities are an acceptable level of atrocities?

[SamwiseRed]

bad people are everywhere. i hope you realize this.

[Hasbinbad]

Serious question, stop dodging.

At what number of dead children does this stop being the actions of an individual and start becoming part of US military culture?

[Tippett]

Ya just like perun was the only bad apple and just like he only did it once, I'm sure the military is full of bronies and cat lovers and appreciators of ballet except those 2 people in that one picture.

more then 2 but not alot in contrast to millions of members

its not like in everquest where if u get found out u have to reroll a new video game toon as your only punishment

in the military u would be fired or go to jail

starting to think u may be one of those people without common sense for even thinking those consequences are in anywhere the same galaxy of comparison worthy

[SamwiseRed]

btw im not sure what you are trying to say or your solution to the matter. are you wanting the military disbanded or what?

[Hasbinbad]

I want you to give me a number of dead children which is acceptable to you, over which our actions become unacceptable.

[SamwiseRed]

i have no idea, both times i deployed to iraq, i never saw a dead child as a result of US forces. i am aware it happens but the only dead children I saw were of iraqis killing iraqis. shit is sad and im glad i never had to experience it.

[Hasbinbad]

At what point does the military need to start taking responsibility for things that military people do? 1,000 dead children? 2,000 dead children? When?

[Tippett]

Serious question, stop dodging.

At what number of dead children does this stop being the actions of an individual and start becoming part of US military culture?

at what point do DUI fatalities stop being the actions of an individual and start becoming a part of the US culture?

you can do that with anything, mistakes (even fatal ones) are parallel with anything involving humanity

you also used children as the example, theatrical as ever I see

[Barkingturtle]

I'm pretty much okay with all the kids being dead.

Fuck yo' kids.

[Hasbinbad]

At what point does sexual assault become unacceptable? 1,000 sexual assaults? 2,000 sexual assaults?

[myriverse]

The military could not function without soldiers, seamen, airmen, and marines. Therefore all troops are culpable for holding up the military.

But you're also right about average citizens being culpable as well.

When a hitman kills, the killer as well as the employer can be charged with murder.
Except the average citizen isn't the employer.
The average citizen is just another victim.
Protection racket.;)

[Hasbinbad]

at what point do DUI fatalities stop being the actions of an individual and start becoming a part of the US culture?

you can do that with anything, mistakes (even fatal ones) are parallel with anything involving humanity

you also used children as the example, theatrical as ever I see
You're dodging again. Give me a number.

[Hasbinbad]

What is the tipping point, tippet?

[SamwiseRed]

no number is acceptable but children die everywhere all the time. if you are honestly concerned with childrens mortality, i would spend time researching/donating/and doing something about the sick children in this country and others. children bring abused, starving, child labor, so much shit you could spend your time and effort on instead of argueing with people here.

[Tippett]

its hasbinbads fault 27 people will die from a DUI related incident today

[SamwiseRed]

wow cant edit, sorry that came out crazy i just got off of werk :(

[Hasbinbad]

How many children need to grow up in broken homes at the boots of the US military? You grew up without a father? YOUR FATHER WASN'T MURDERED AT HOME BY A JACK BOOTED THUG FROM A FOREIGN FUCKING LAND WAS HE?

[Hasbinbad]

its hasbinbads fault 27 people will die from a DUI related incident today
Still dodging. ..and you had the nerve to accuse me of it.

[Hasbinbad]

wow cant edit, sorry that came out crazy i just got off of werk :(
Just shut up. You're responding to like 10% of this conversation and you don't sound smart, even to tippet, and that's kind of sad.

[Hasbinbad]

its hasbinbads fault 27 people will die from a DUI related incident today
Except that I don't voluntarily belong to an organization that keeps drunk drivers out on the streets driving drunk.

[Hasbinbad]

Weak analogy at best. Red herring more like.

[SamwiseRed]

honestly it comes off as you are more concerned with trolling military than you are for children lives. you offer no solution, you offer no help. what have you done for starving, abused, homeless, sick and diseased children?

[Tippett]

You're dodging again. Give me a number.

I say zero children are acceptable to die, but the average us citizen (YOU) voted individuals into office who sent the military there, knowing as any human being ran organization mistakes would be made and people would die

if you dont find children dying due to mistakes acceptable, vote for individuals who won't send the military to perform operations where accidental deaths are unavoidable

the congressman from my local area in michigan was not in support of extending the defense budget and extending the war :P

[Autotune]

autotune man u have a good attitude but ur kinda over dramatizing it along with hasbinbad, its not like u get there and your ordered to kill people

i deployed with ranger regiment, trust me i know

this is kinda wut my original post was about people who haven't been there having these strange almost theatrical opinions on the military

i'm just doing what he is doing, mixing truth with not-so-truth.

My brother in law is(was) a ranger, pretty sure you don't ever stop being one of those.

[Tippett]

Except that I don't voluntarily belong to an organization that keeps drunk drivers out on the streets driving drunk.

its not the army that keeps the army in afghanistan, its the average american who votes in their congressmen who demands we go/stay there

[Tippett]

i'm just doing what he is doing, mixing truth with not-so-truth.

My brother in law is(was) a ranger, pretty sure you don't ever stop being one of those.

rangers lead the way, im sure you already know this but your brother in law is a bad ass

those guys do not fuck around lol bravest dudes i have ever met in my life

[Tippett]

im starting to think hasbinbad just doesnt want the military to exist at all

guess hes been brushing up on that mandarin

[SamwiseRed]

i can tell you this. i treated/helped more iraqi children than i did US soldiers in iraq as a medic. i also helped vaccinate, educate, and assist children. i even helped deliver a baby (was awesome) without the assistance of any other medical personnel. ive even treated known and suspected enemies without prejudiced. if I was a moran, id sterotype all iraqis with being a murderer/rapist/child molester/terrorist but thankfully i know there are good and bad people in all walks of life. i hope one day you realize that not everything is so black and white.

[Hasbinbad]

honestly it comes off as you are more concerned with trolling military than you are for children lives
As far as this thread is concerned, this is 100% true. The point of this thread is to troll military people. I get mad about and do stuff about dead children in life rather than on the p99 rnf forum.

That being said, it's pretty easy to socratically bait gung ho brainwashes like tippet into the corner I currently have him in using devices like dead children and murdered reuters employees and sexually assaulting hundreds of inmates at abu ghraib and guantanamo because there is plenty of evidence for this and it's fucked up no matter how you look at it, and every member of the military is culpable for the actions of their brethren in that they continue to actively support the system that made those actions possible.

[SamwiseRed]

and when you do realize this, i welcome you to the real world :)

[SamwiseRed]

civilians kill civilians (including kids) every day and a hell of alot more often than military. damn civilians are sick mother fuckers.

[Hasbinbad]

vote vote vote

Do you really think voting changes policy?

I'm just like.. LOL

So, Tippet. Zero children dead is acceptable? So that means the us military is unacceptable to you, since they have killed more than zero children. So why do you continue to support an organization that you just said you find unacceptable?

[SamwiseRed]

btw real talk, if i ever witness a soldier killing a kid wrongfully, so help me god if i didnt kill them myself by impulse, i would make sure they paid for it.

[Tippett]

As far as this thread is concerned, this is 100% true. The point of this thread is to troll military people. I get mad about and do stuff about dead children in life rather than on the p99 rnf forum.

That being said, it's pretty easy to socratically bait gung ho brainwashes like tippet into the corner I currently have him in using devices like dead children and murdered reuters employees and sexually assaulting hundreds of inmates at abu ghraib and guantanamo because there is plenty of evidence for this and it's fucked up no matter how you look at it, and every member of the military is culpable for the actions of their brethren in that they continue to actively support the system that made those actions possible.

i dont get how im brainwashed

you really think the country can exist without a military?

also you do realize that any organization makes mistakes, and when your operations consist of "blow up enemy soldier training camp" that the mistakes that are natural to any organization is going to be undesired casualties

[SamwiseRed]

google "mom kills children"

there are hundreds of stories

how many mothers must kill children before it is unacceptable?

when will we safeguard all children from their mothers?

[Hasbinbad]

i can tell you this. i treated/helped more iraqi children than i did US soldiers in iraq as a medic. i also helped vaccinate, educate, and assist children. i even helped deliver a baby (was awesome) without the assistance of any other medical personnel. ive even treated known and suspected enemies without prejudiced. if I was a moran, id sterotype all iraqis with being a murderer/rapist/child molester/terrorist but thankfully i know there are good and bad people in all walks of life. i hope one day you realize that not everything is so black and white.
I herd this story about how this nazi dude gave a stuffed animal to a little jewish girl.

And then turned on the oven.

Aw, what a nice nazi.

[Hasbinbad]

i dont get how im brainwashed
This does not surprise me.
you really think the country can exist without a military?
No. No, I do not.
also you do realize that any organization makes mistakes, and when your operations consist of "blow up enemy soldier training camp" that the mistakes that are natural to any organization is going to be undesired casualties
Yes. Abu Ghraib was a "mistake."

ROFL

[SamwiseRed]

i heard a story about this religious zealot who helped the poor

and then went into a bus and denoted a bomb killing women, children, and himself

aw what a nice god fearing man.

[Hasbinbad]

google "mom kills children"

there are hundreds of stories

how many mothers must kill children before it is unacceptable?

when will we safeguard all children from their mothers?
Red herring.

[Hasbinbad]

i heard a story about this religious zealot who helped the poor

and then went into a bus and denoted a bomb killing women, children, and himself

aw what a nice god fearing man.
Exactly.

[Tippett]

vote vote vote

Do you really think voting changes policy?

It does, and this is the policy people want.

But you know i think your right and the other 99.9999% who vote in these candidates are wrong.

You're just on a whole other level.

[Hasbinbad]

ty for making my point for me, Sam.

[Hasbinbad]

It does, and this is the policy people want.

But you know i think your right and the other 99.9999% who vote in these candidates are wrong.

You're just on a whole other level.
Oh god you're so Apple Pie that you can't even smell the bullshit you're drowning in.

[SamwiseRed]

so what is your solution anyway?

[Tippett]

Oh god you're so Apple Pie that you can't even smell the bullshit you're drowning in.

not sure what this is suppose to mean

[Hasbinbad]

It does, and this is the policy people want.

But you know i think your right and the other 99.9999% who vote in these candidates are wrong.

You're just on a whole other level.
#1 nothing changes policy in this country. This or that law, this or that regulation, this or that shell game bullshit can get changed, but impartial analysis will show every time that in the US, policy stays the same. Furthermore, that policy was dictated de facto, not voted on (lol), after WW2.

#2 the number of people sharing a delusion does not have an effect on the validity of said delusion (e.g. religion).

[Hasbinbad]

not sure what this is suppose to mean
That doesn't surprise me.

[SamwiseRed]

so what is your solution anyway?

hasbin what would you have the military do? where are you going with this? or you just venting?

[Hasbinbad]

OK halfwits, I'm going to bed.

Maybe by the time I wake up, someone with a rational argument will have posted.

[Hasbinbad]

hasbin what would you have the military do? where are you going with this? or you just venting?
See page 1 where I posted the boxxy video and the puppet master picture.

You sure dance well Sam.

[SamwiseRed]

points out a problem, offers no solution.

:)

its like im in college lol

[Arclyte]

the military welfare complex: A place for people who would otherwise work at Arby's or be in jail get shot at for minimum wage

[Hasbinbad]

the military welfare complex: A place for people who would otherwise work at Arby's or be in jail get shot at for minimum wage
While I prefer punctuation, I appreciate your sentiment.

[Tippett]

#1 nothing changes policy in this country. This or that law, this or that regulation, this or that shell game bullshit can get changed, but impartial analysis will show every time that in the US, policy stays the same. Furthermore, that policy was dictated de facto, not voted on (lol), after WW2.

#2 the number of people sharing a delusion does not have an effect on the validity of said delusion (e.g. religion).

1. Okay, who people vote in has no say on policy got it. (lol)

2. You're using the "I'm smarter than 99.9% of the population who voted for this policy" defense. I guess I'm blessed to encounter you randomly on the internet then, considering you are in the top .01% of intelligence above the rest of us simpletons.

[Hasbinbad]

points out a problem, offers no solution.

:)

its like im in college lol
This is the Rants and Flames board.

The Ideas and Solutions board is

THAT WAY
--------------------->

[Tippett]

the military welfare complex: A place for people who would otherwise work at Arby's or be in jail get shot at for minimum wage

i would be another of a million college students in life time debt

rather pay my dues first then go :)

[SamwiseRed]

its either goto college, work at arbies, or join the military.

lawl

[Hasbinbad]

1. Okay, who people vote in has no say on policy got it. (lol)

2. You're using the "I'm smarter than 99.9% of the population who voted for this policy" defense. I guess I'm blessed to encounter you randomly on the internet then, considering you are in the top .01% of intelligence above the rest of us simpletons.
1. That is correct. The CIA determines foreign policy, while various federal orgs determine domestic policy. These organizations are top down without exception, with the orders ultimately coming from the illuminati, however you choose to envision them. IN no case ever has anyone voted on anything that has affected actual policy.

2. I never said that. You said that. I simply pointed out the futility of saying "X-number of people agree, so it must be true," which is a ludicrous statement.

[SamwiseRed]

http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/42/90/dc0a10e0964c604a6acaaee12fb6edb4-yeah-science-could-coughing-while-smoking-get-you-higher.jpg

or

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4D2DAs_30Z62P6U5KAPgbP8j5B4HJe Es3dq9gOsNmYIWzAj9OpA

or

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSsPBq34iSgv2lMFOYQTxsTdmk7HpXo IrQBF5fWsTQo1aOMsGa

damn no wonder i joined the army.

[Hasbinbad]

http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/42/90/dc0a10e0964c604a6acaaee12fb6edb4-yeah-science-could-coughing-while-smoking-get-you-higher.jpg

or

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4D2DAs_30Z62P6U5KAPgbP8j5B4HJe Es3dq9gOsNmYIWzAj9OpA

or

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSsPBq34iSgv2lMFOYQTxsTdmk7HpXo IrQBF5fWsTQo1aOMsGa

damn no wonder i joined the army.
It's really sad that these are the three choices you had in life. I feel bad for you.

[SamwiseRed]

thanks man, i appreciate your empathy.

[Hasbinbad]

Shit, even when we do vote against war, Jeb Bush steals the election anyway.

[Tippett]

1. That is correct. The CIA determines foreign policy, while various federal orgs determine domestic policy. These organizations are top down without exception, with the orders ultimately coming from the illuminati, however you choose to envision them. IN no case ever has anyone voted on anything that has affected actual policy.

2. I never said that. You said that. I simply pointed out the futility of saying "X-number of people agree, so it must be true," which is a ludicrous statement.

1. The president (voted by people) nominates the head of the CIA, so yes who people vote for president does affect foreign policy. But you already knew that.

2. If the majority is that overwhelming that they want these candidates to establish policy, It's pretty obvious they want the military over seas. (AKA they are the people responsible for war time operations and the unavoidable/unacceptable deaths there)

[Hasbinbad]

thanks man, i appreciate your empathy.
Empathy would be me saying "I understand that situation must be hard for you to deal with." What I showed you is sympathy. It's much more of a shallow, uncaring emotion where I get the catharisis of feeling bad momentarily, only to snap back to my amazing life, without ever having really shared anything with you. If I were empathetic, I would need to truly understand how your life choices in this arena affect you, and then express that understanding in a cognizent manner.

I actually care more about explaining the difference between empathy and sympathy to you than I care about you.

Fuck you.

[Hasbinbad]

(voted by electoral college, which is not beholdant to the people in any way shape or form)
ftfy

[Hasbinbad]

1. The president (voted by people) nominates the head of the CIA, so yes who people vote for president does affect foreign policy. But you already knew that.

2. If the majority is that overwhelming that they want these candidates to establish policy, It's pretty obvious they want the military over seas. (AKA they are the people responsible for war time operations and the unavoidable/unacceptable deaths there)
2 is based on 1, and I falsified 1, so it follows that 2 is also false.

[SamwiseRed]

i assumed you had similar life choices and thats why you felt bad because you've been there. guess not.

[Tippett]

People vote for the members of the electoral college on a state by state basis

this is getting dum dog going to bed now hehe, till our next argument (probably be awhile, I usually avoid obvious trolls but I was bored and angsty)

US Citizens > State Official > President > CIA Head > Foreign Policy > Military Occupation > Civilian Casualties

[Hasbinbad]

i assumed you had similar life choices and thats why you felt bad because you've been there. guess not.
Well, I saw those 3 obvious choices.. obfuscating all the awesome behind them.

Some of us can see more out there.

[hatelore]

Dang, a fat nerd made another anti-military post on an elf forum! I guess I better get all riled up...

[SamwiseRed]

arbys promised me a position washing lettuce. they said soon, I would be on fries then the grill.

After a year or two, I could be an assistant manager and that's where the big bucks start rolling in.

[SamwiseRed]

but alas i wanted to get shot at for minimum wage (and look cool) so i chose the army :(

[Hasbinbad]

People vote for the members of the electoral college on a state by state basis
Nice uncredited quote from the wikipedia article on the US electoral college (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_%28United_States%29):

"The President and Vice President are not elected directly by the voters. Instead, they are elected indirectly by "electors" who are elected by popular vote on a state-by-state basis.<sup id="cite_ref-green1_1-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_%28United_States%29#cite_note-green1-1)"</sup>

Did wikipedia also tell you that the electoral college can do whatever the fuck they want and are not responsible in any tangible way to actually represent the will of the people?

[SamwiseRed]

electoral college is dumb as fuck btw

[SamwiseRed]

wipe it clean

[Hasbinbad]

Dang, a fat nerd made another anti-military post on an elf forum! I guess I better get all riled up...
This thread is obviously not meant for you sir.

GOOD DAY.

http://i.imgur.com/k3ha8qh.jpg

[SamwiseRed]

his brow hair is going over the monocle

would not call sir

[Hasbinbad]

wipe it clean
BURN ALL THE THINGS

[hatelore]

This thread is obviously not meant for you sir.

GOOD DAY.

http://i.imgur.com/k3ha8qh.jpg

Thanks man, suck it easy... I just find it funny you jump on this forum to talk about how evil our troops are and and how bush knocked towahs down. This is your life? I pity you...

P.s. You'll probably be one of the very first fat basement dwellers begging for protection if and when there truely is a threat to our homeland...

[Hasbinbad]

Thanks man, suck it easy... I just find it funny you jump on this forum to talk about how evil our troops are and and how bush knocked towahs down. This is your life? I pity you...

P.s. You'll probably be one of the very first fat basement dwellers begging for protection if and when there truely is a threat to our homeland...
lol holy shit I guess this thread WAS for you after all!

[hatelore]

Lol. Not really, just figured I'd chime in with my deep words of wisdom. Its Friday afterall.

[Wudan]

let me offer my point of view... any guy who straps on and walks around other mans country killing people deserves to be shot in his fucking head. stay home hillbilly moran! u.s. army is not a defensive army. its a colonization/invasion force and anyone who signs up for whatever reason needs to get his fucking head examined....or shot on the battlefield. and than there is the blackwater dudes....the real american heroes....the real american way. privatization of war. lets make some money, kill some ppl and PR it as honorable and patriotic .... fuck em all

[Hasbinbad]

let me offer my point of view... any guy who straps on and walks around other mans country killing people deserves to be shot in his fucking head. stay home hillbilly moran! u.s. army is not a defensive army. its a colonization/invasion force and anyone who signs up for whatever reason needs to get his fucking head examined....or shot on the battlefield. and than there is the blackwater dudes....the real american heroes....the real american way. privatization of war. lets make some money, kill some ppl and PR it as honorable and patriotic .... fuck em all
Poetry.

[quido]

Damn, if Visceral is the brother that didn't have to join the military, I'd hate to meet the rest of the family!

[rsloans84]

OP i used to like most of your posts but after this one i hope a terrorist shoots u in the streets, fuck u

[Stinkum]

This thread is a who's who if the three stupidest people on the forum.

#1 Lowest IQ - Tippett
Runner-up - Samwise
Honorable mention - Hatelore

The only people absolute dogshit stupid enough to bite, hook, line, and sinker for fall for the most blatant and obvious of trolls after the same exact thread was already made.

[hatelore]

Appreciate the honorable mention. Hats off to you mr tmz reporter guy. Pretty sure he believes his views though so I wouldn't call that a troll.

[hatelore]

And if you are going to call people stupid... Doncha think you should check to make sure you use the correct words in your flame post? lol Next time, call people stupid then run spell check to make sure you yourself don't look so stupid :)

[Stinkum]

Appreciate the honorable mention. Hats off to you mr tmz reporter guy. Pretty sure he believes his views though so I wouldn't call that a troll.

Lol, I'd be bitter too if I was retarded enough to get my jimmies rustled as bad as you for the same exact troll thread twice in a row.

Even a 3-year old that burns his hand on a stove is smart enough to not do it again immediately afterward.

Do you have an extra chromosome or just extremely poor self-control?

[hatelore]

Wouldn't say I got my jimmies rustled, but I am pro military so... I do take offense when I see a fat nerd on a elf forums talking shit about wounded vets. Just isn't right is all. Hell maybe I have poor self control? But I do know I can spell and place words correctly, so I guess that means I don't have an extra chromosome. At least I got that going for me right? Please approve this message, my day being good depends on it!

[OMGWTF420]

what a dumb thread

[Stinkum]

Wouldn't say I got my jimmies rustled, but I do take offense

Translation: "My fifth chin jiggles in rage over the same exact thread my jowls already jiggled at a year ago."

Commence the jiggling.

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[hatelore]

Lol, I'm not fat! But if i don't break my monster energy addiction i may end up that way gd! ;)

[hatelore]

gotta admit though, that video did make me lol irl !

[Bodeanicus]

i guess you can call enormous extremely wealthy heroin production/distribution cartels freedom fighters if you want

specially when they routinely kill and intimidate farmers who try to avoid getting involved in the drug trade (Extremely forbidden by muslim teachings) and force them do use/farm/distribute narcotics

but like i said in my first post its one of those things u gotta see to understand, because no one can put a manipulative spin on something you visually see and experience personally

Time will show that we're protecting these "narcotics" cartels, and aiding in heroin distribution, just as we were defending South American cartels and shipping cocaine in the 80's to fund the Iran/Contra clusterfuck. People are dropping like flies from heroin overdoses because of the sudden purity in the last few years. Trivia question: where is opium harvested?

[Raavak]

Time will show that we're protecting these "narcotics" cartels, and aiding in heroin distribution, just as we were defending South American cartels and shipping cocaine in the 80's to fund the Iran/Contra clusterfuck. People are dropping like flies from heroin overdoses because of the sudden purity in the last few years. Trivia question: where is opium harvested?Talked to a vet that was so angry he had to guard poppy fields and the number of shiny new Ford tractors he saw cultivating them. Its so sad.

[Harrison Remembers]

Like I said, these kids think they know stuff. America gives 2 shits about the citizens. The people in charge behind the curtains (nobody you'll ever see/hear) Have a goal, and it damn sure isn't making sure America stays clean and healthy.

Easiest way to control population growth? Food, drugs, water.

Lol shadowy organizations hiding from public eye in 2013

The stupidity is strong in this one. Next you'll say the illuminati alien jew lizards are really running the world.

[nilbog]

http://narwhaler.com/img/mh/e/star-trek-humans-ancient-aliens-MHEddW.jpg

[SamwiseRed]

who is stinkum and why is he crying?

oh the guy i griefed off red99

hai friend

[raitheon]

I DIDNT GET A HRRUMPH OUTA THAT GUY

[Hasbinbad]

What the fuck is red99?

[Lron]

This really is sad. They get these kids right out of high school when they really have no idea how to distinguish fact from fiction. In all honesty, if your kid joins the military...you have failed as a parent on the highest level.

[Hasbinbad]

This really is sad. They get these kids right out of high school when they really have no idea how to distinguish fact from fiction. In all honesty, if your kid joins the military...you have failed as a parent on the highest level.
This is literally the first post of any worth you have ever made.

[Hailto]

This has got to be a joke right?

I got blowed up in Iraq, and all I got was this crummy T-Shirt.

THIS CAN'T BE FUCKING REALITY, CAN IT?!?!?

It is a nice t-shirt though.

[Hasbinbad]

It is a nice t-shirt though.
Well played sir.

[fluffyfluff]

Well played sir.

Who did you vote for in the last election?

[Hailto]

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[OMGWTF420]

congratulations you have all been trolled by hasbinbad, i hope you feel proud of yourselves

[47shadesofgay]

Hasbinbad you are posting at an early-2012 Alarti pace.

May want to scale it back.

[Clark]

Hasbinbad you are posting at an early-2012 Alarti pace.

May want to scale it back.

lol

[Hasbinbad]

Hasbinbad you are posting at an early-2012 Alarti pace.

May want to scale it back.
Since you're new here, I'll explain that in early 2012, Alarti was posting at a near-hasbinbad pace.

[Hasbinbad]

Who did you vote for in the last election?
lol voting.

fuck you, statist.

[fluffyfluff]

lol voting.

fuck you, statist.

I thought so, you didn't vote.

Don't fucking complain if you dont exercise your power to influence the very events you are bitching about, dumbfuck.

[Hasbinbad]

I thought so, you didn't vote.

Don't fucking complain if you dont exercise your power to influence the very events you are bitching about, dumbfuck.
I'm not buying the premise that you're selling. It is my considered position that voting doesn't actually influence policy. I always offer people the opportunity to try and prove me wrong, but they never can. Please tell me some way that citizen voting has ever had a direct and tangible effect on foreign policy.

Common fallacy used by statists.

Also, regardless of your ability to come up with legit answers, I'll fucking complain about anything I damned well feel like, and if or how I vote has no effect on that. Kthx.

[Hasbinbad]

Voting with bricks is much more direct.

http://i.imgur.com/gjAoqN3.jpg

[Ephirith]

I'm not buying the premise that you're selling. It is my considered position that voting doesn't actually influence policy. I always offer people the opportunity to try and prove me wrong, but they never can. Please tell me some way that citizen voting has ever had a direct and tangible effect on foreign policy.

Common fallacy used by statists.

Also, regardless of your ability to come up with legit answers, I'll fucking complain about anything I damned well feel like, and if or how I vote has no effect on that. Kthx.

I'll see your rebuttal and raise you this picture I found of my cat's butthole:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4078/buttholeas.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/buttholeas.jpg/)

-

Also, no matter how many bricks you throw you'll still be poor and disenfranchised.

[fluffyfluff]

I'm not buying the premise that you're selling. It is my considered position that voting doesn't actually influence policy. I always offer people the opportunity to try and prove me wrong, but they never can. Please tell me some way that citizen voting has ever had a direct and tangible effect on foreign policy.

Common fallacy used by statists.

Also, regardless of your ability to come up with legit answers, I'll fucking complain about anything I damned well feel like, and if or how I vote has no effect on that. Kthx.

tldr;

no matter how valid or invalid someones argument is, you'll continue to wallow in your ignorance by choice.

[Hasbinbad]

Except that I'm not and I'm not. I'm a white middle class dude. I just give a shit. If I didn't, I'd get mine, Jack.

[Hasbinbad]

no matter how valid or invalid someones argument is, you'll continue to wallow in your ignorance by choice.
lol what?

Let me prove it:

How am I ignorant?

There, now I am actively seeking out an end to my ignorance, so if I remain in such a state it is not by choice.

I also do not believe you made an argument. You made a statement in which you judge me and attempt to dismiss me for my political beliefs. If you'd like to make an actual argument - although I'm not sure what about since you haven't established any premises - I'd entertain it and perhaps respond, but we're not on that level yet in this interaction.

[orsk]

Voting with bricks is much more direct.

Actually voting by votes is more direct, cus votes are placed by voters, so to be as direct as possible voting with votes is more direct.

[Hasbinbad]

Actually voting by votes is more direct, cus votes are placed by voters, so to be as direct as possible voting with votes is more direct.
Voting is de facto indirect action. You say your opinion, and trust someone else to do what is best.

I prefer direct action to accomplish my goals.

[Hasbinbad]

HBB schoolin the bourgeoisie:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_action

[Daldolma]

Except that I'm not and I'm not. I'm a white middle class dude. I just give a shit. If I didn't, I'd get mine, Jack.

fun fact over 85% of americans identify as either middle class, upper-middle class, or working class

[orsk]

Voting is de facto indirect action. You say your opinion, and trust someone else to do what is best.

I prefer direct action to accomplish my goals.



SO is this thread accomplishing your goals yet?

[Faerie Blossom]

Hasbinbad is a caricature of himself.

[Daldolma]

other fun fact, people that self-identify as 'upper class' are 3 times more likely to self-identify as democrats than as republicans.

[Ephirith]

Our representation is unhealthy because people are fucking ignorant. They don't take an active interest in politics, and they don't put any real sincerity or effort into making the right political choices. You're right to say that the line between a vote and a real political outcome has been clouded by corruption and money, because it has... but that has just as much to do with corruption at the top as it does with decay at the bottom.

You can not have a healthy state with an ignorant electorate. It got this way because people were too fucking stupid to run the system properly. One nice thing about our system is you can't blame all your problems on the elite without looking like an ass, because the only way it got that way is because you fucked up your duty as a citizen and let a nice, semi-functional republic-system become a real oligarchy.

Yet you probably think you're speaking in everyone's best interests when you want to throw a brick at the establishment. When someone like you feels like they need to opt out of the system just because they aren't getting their way, that just undermines everything. I think a more fair and a more effective use of your time would be to encourage other people to speak in their own best interests until the system works again, instead if chimping out like a god damned somalian.

[Hasbinbad]

SO is this thread accomplishing your goals yet?
Yes.

However, the goals behind making this thread are not the same goals as I was alluding to.

This thread was made to troll gung ho douchebags, and it has largely been successful.

[Hasbinbad]

(meaningless words) .. I think a more fair and a more effective use of your time would be to encourage other people to speak in their own best interests until the system works again, instead if chimping out like a god damned somalian.
Because talking has done so much good in the past?