Half of FE's monks are suspended, Loses Trak when they have to compete

[Tiggles]

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3 monks down.

[Yapas]

Ahaha <3

[Jimes]

OP is fat

[AenarieFenninRo]

I didnt see the JFK reference coming, shit made me laugh.

[Hackscendence]

What does this fraps prove, other than the fact that he was dragging a corpse and you moved into the way?

[AenarieFenninRo]

that he had agro, and instead of FD again, the mobs chased him.

Then agro'd other people... thats kinda the definition of a train isn't it?

[Yapas]

What does this fraps prove, other than the fact that he was dragging a corpse and you moved into the way?

Doh I detected malfunction with your eyes !

I recommend huge glasses !

[Alawen]

You know what this video reminds me of? It reminds me that HEY TIGGLES DOESN'T MORTISS OWE YOU 100K?

[Mortiiss]

There was also a train on our raid when we first logged in.

Most of you probably missed it though, since we logged in before most of you, as usual.

[Scowlie]

According to Alovia, the GMs no longer use fraps as evidence. I guess that's convenient for TMO because there is a fraps of a member of your guild training us while we were preparing at ledge.

Same shit, different week.

Trak would have been dead before TMO even had a raid force logged in capable of engaging. Anything after that should be negated.

Wonder how long it'll take for the staff to wake up and realize that a handful of TMO are stirring the pot and causing this drama on a weekly basis.

[maverixdamighty]

0/10. monk agroes while pulling corpses.

[Cecily]

Fraps contain no evidence.

[Alawen]

I owe Tiggles 100K and I have absolutely no intention of paying him.

FTFY

[49shadesofgay]

This is fantastic.

Did FE lose Trak/loot because of this? I hope that retarded monk is suspended with this proof.

I love the random courtroom scene also, A+ would watch again.

[Chloroform]

According to Alovia, the GMs no longer use fraps as evidence. I guess that's convenient for TMO because there is a fraps of a member of your guild training us while we were preparing at ledge.

Same shit, different week.

Trak would have been dead before TMO even had a raid force logged in capable of engaging. Anything after that should be negated.

Wonder how long it'll take for the staff to wake up and realize that a handful of TMO are stirring the pot and causing this drama on a weekly basis.


o really??

[Autotune]

So you can legally train people so long as you pull around a random corpse.

Good to know.

[AenarieFenninRo]

0/10. monk agroes while pulling corpses.

I agree, monk quality definitely 0/10

[Tiggles]

So you can legally train people so long as you pull around a random corpse.

Good to know.

Note.
he is pulling an officer corpse
An officer corpse whom is so close he could drag it with out sitting up

Why did he have to train if the corpse was right there?

The drag was a ruse to train

[Hackscendence]

Where's the TMO raid force? I see 4 people moving in to crowd a guy who FD'd his aggro during a corpse pull.

0/10 indeed.

[Rhambuk]

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4603931007451519&pid=15.1

Back and to the left! Back! and to the left!

Now that! is one magic loogie

[Tanthallas]

So you can legally train people so long as you pull around a random corpse.

Good to know.

Apparently Cyrano and RandomBarbShaman034 from TMO can legally train entire raids on the ledge as well. They amongst other TMO are suspended - individual suspensions, however, when every hardcore player has multiple raid ready toons, are moot. Though I would be sorry for the 75% of TMO who have no hand in any of this shit and just want to raid, I really hope this leads to a raid suspension so the honest people in TMO oust the fucktards that continue to CONSCIOUSLY do this.

Dont give me any shit about it happening to TMO as well three traks ago when you had 12 people to FE's 35 and FE trained themselves. A raid training their own raid due to a bad engage is completely different than a few people from a different guild training an entire guild that is logging in to engage trak.

FE logged into Trak being ontop of them due to Cyrano and co.; If this shit is allowed to fly, mineswell say fuck it and make training and griefing completely legal so we can sort this shit out ourselves.

You dumbshits can do this all you want; maybe you will even get away with it a few times. We arent going anywhere.

[Scowlie]

They amongst other TMO are suspended - individual suspensions, however, when every hardcore player has multiple raid ready toons, are moot.
...
Though I would be sorry for the 75% of TMO who have no hand in any of this shit and just want to raid, I really hope this leads to a raid suspension so the honest people in TMO oust the fucktards that continue to CONSCIOUSLY do this.

Pretty much this.

Server needs to have another MacroQuest purge and someone level headed like Sirken (read: not Alovia) needs to start handing out raid suspensions after witnessing an entire fiasco, not half of it.

The slime from TMO will slowly seep out and quit when they no longer have an arsenal of characters to get suspended, rules to abuse and a platform to troll an entire raid scene.

I suspect the problem with this is that the slime goes all the way to the top in TMO.

[Tiggles]

Apparently Cyrano and RandomBarbShaman034 from TMO can legally train entire raids on the ledge as well. They amongst other TMO are suspended - individual suspensions, however, when every hardcore player has multiple raid ready toons, are moot. Though I would be sorry for the 75% of TMO who have no hand in any of this shit and just want to raid, I really hope this leads to a raid suspension so the honest people in TMO oust the fucktards that continue to CONSCIOUSLY do this.

Dont give me any shit about it happening to TMO as well three traks ago when you had 12 people to FE's 35 and FE trained themselves. A raid training their own raid due to a bad engage is completely different than a few people from a different guild training an entire guild that is logging in to engage trak.

FE logged into Trak being ontop of them due to Cyrano and co.; If this shit is allowed to fly, mineswell say fuck it and make training and griefing completely legal so we can sort this shit out ourselves.

You dumbshits can do this all you want; maybe you will even get away with it a few times. We arent going anywhere.

TMO can't go a trak with out being trained by your crew of newbie monks these are blatant guild authorized trains and your guild will get its reckoning.

You are running out of monks bro

[Alarti0001]

So you can legally train people so long as you pull around a random corpse.

Good to know.

[maverixdamighty]

you see a monk dragging corpses around trak maybe you should stay back instead of creeping up...

[Tiggles]

you see a monk dragging corpses around trak maybe you should stay back instead of creeping up...

He was pulling an already recovered corpse.

You can see it at is feet before he even stood up and started running.

We had people behind me ready to pull this was a train to delay us from killing trak.

[arsenalpow]

Not impressed with Alovia based on my limited interaction with her. She didn't want to deal with Klubba training our solo cleric in Naggy's lair and only after I let her know that I wanted to escalate the petition up to Ephi or Sirken did she handle him. Shinko and I came to the same conclusion separately that Alovia is Jasminda, at least that's our guess.

[Chloroform]

you see a monk dragging corpses around trak maybe you should stay back instead of creeping up...

traks aggro radius is about the size of Seb. once hes in LOS its gonna kill and ae sneez all over anyone in los. many casualties caused by this monk.

[Tiggles]

Not impressed with Alovia based on my limited interaction with her. She didn't want to deal with Klubba training our solo cleric in Naggy's lair and only after I let her know that I wanted to escalate the petition up to Ephi or Sirken did she handle him. Shinko and I came to the same conclusion separately that Alovia is Jasminda, at least that's our guess.

Never had a bad experience wih alovia I think she is doing a great job so far.

You probably have problems with her because you're a retard

[Shinko]

Tiggles ever get tired of making retarded threads?

[Chloroform]

Never had a bad experience wih alovia I think she is doing a great job so far.

You probably have problems with her because you're a retard

chest is a fucking scum bag! 100% confirmed

[arsenalpow]

Stay on topic.

I was watching fraps on my phone. Which monk was that?

[Tiggles]

Tiggles ever get tired of making retarded threads?

Every RNF thread I get over 10 pages I get DKP.


There saving it for me for Velious though that's what Alarti tells me.

[Tanthallas]

traks aggro radius is about the size of Seb. once hes in LOS its gonna kill and ae sneez all over anyone in los. many casualties caused by this monk.

Yea pretty much.

But this has been known for like 2 weeks now, and both guilds have been given due leniency for learning the new range and the problems it caused. Today was utter bullshit. I would love to hear Cyrano and that shaman defend themselves.

[Shinko]

tmo giving dkp to retards

nothing new

[xmonkx]

http://i.imgur.com/AovLi5p.jpg

Meanwhile what BDA is doing. Clearly pulling jokes out on 911. Nice move Chest

[xmonkx]

http://i.imgur.com/AovLi5p.jpg

Meanwhile what BDA is doing. Clearly pulling jokes out on 911. Nice move Chest...Not

[Tiggles]

Stay on topic.

I was watching fraps on my phone. Which monk was that?

Guchi.

Your a monk can you /corpse while FD?

The corpse was /corpse to his feet before he even moves and he did not Agro until he ran back into our raid.

The questions are.

if the corpse is drug to the LOS wall any player could of gotten it. Sentence was in range with no Agro so any FE member could of gotten it.

If he knew he would of gotten Agro when he stood up why did be stand up do a 360 to see the incoming mobs to him then run into sent and die?

What I see here is a monk being told to train by goodies who gives him consent on his already drug corpse to make it look like it was unintentional

[Hurley]

Alarti take Tyrion Lannister off your sig because you do not pay your debts.

[maverixdamighty]

Guchi.

Your a monk can you /corpse while FD?

The corpse was /corpse to his feet before he even moves and he did not Agro until he ran back into our raid.

The questions are.

if the corpse is drug to the LOS wall any player could of gotten it. Sentence was in range with no Agro so any FE member could of gotten it.

If he knew he would of gotten Agro when he stood up why did be stand up do a 360 to see the incoming mobs to him then run into sent and die?

What I see here is a monk being told to train by goodies who gives him consent on his already drug corpse to make it look like it was unintentional

he didn't run anything to your raid. there was 3-4 people there.

[Chloroform]

Stay on topic.

I was watching fraps on my phone. Which monk was that?

Guchi Manye

[arsenalpow]

So who's really suspended?

[Ehrmahgerd]

Not impressed with Alovia based on my limited interaction with her. She didn't want to deal with Klubba training our solo cleric in Naggy's lair and only after I let her know that I wanted to escalate the petition up to Ephi or Sirken did she handle him. Shinko and I came to the same conclusion separately that Alovia is Jasminda, at least that's our guess.

Najdorf(BDA)/Ephi really needs to close their fucking mouth about gm identities.

[Tiggles]

he didn't run anything to your raid. there was 3-4 people there.

3-4 people in front of me

The rest where waiting to pull

If you knew anything about trak, you send a player with DA in to set off his first AE then the rest come in.

[Yibz]

Alarti take Tyrion Lannister off your sig because you do not pay your debts.

First decent post Hurley has ever made. I lol'd

[arsenalpow]

Sirken is Finkle, Finkle is Einhorn

[maverixdamighty]

3-4 people in front of me

The rest where waiting to pull

If you knew anything about trak, you send a player with DA in to set off his first AE then the rest come in.

thanks for that info. once again he didn't train your raid. confirmed.

[Tiggles]

thanks for that info. once again he didn't train your raid. confirmed.

Pulling trak passed the LOS Argos everyone His Agro is huge now

Are you dense?

[maverixdamighty]

Pulling trak passed the LOS Argos everyone His Agro is huge now

Are you dense?

pretty sure we've killed him more than you since patch. we are aware.

[Tanthallas]

3-4 people in front of me

The rest where waiting to pull

If you knew anything about trak, you send a player with DA in to set off his first AE then the rest come in.

Only problem with this is that you didnt have a raid to pull it to.

FE did.

So, if everyone wants to know anything about training Trak it appears the proper method is to send a player with DA to pull Trak on the ledge where 40 FE are logging in and forming groups. Maybe wipe out the 10 player force of TMO there so you can tell them that FE trained them and they can spam the GMs to confuse them. After this, proceed to move your raidforce across the water to CotH more people in while watching the other raid force get destroyed.

[Kevynne]

There was also a train on our raid when we first logged in.

Most of you probably missed it though, since we logged in before most of you, as usual.

chellsa was in seb group when this happened. wish i got an SS /who ahd 25-30 TMO and 5-7 fe.
mortiiss you've gone to pixel :/

[maverixdamighty]

chellsa was in seb group when this happened. wish i got an SS /who ahd 25-30 TMO and 5-7 fe.
mortiiss you've gone to pixel :/

ya probably after the first wipe. they engaged trak with 16ish in zone and pulled onto us.

[Kevynne]

chest is a fucking scum bag! 100% confirmed

chest is 100% full douche.

[Servellious]

Only problem with this is that you didnt have a raid to pull it to.

FE did.

So, if everyone wants to know anything about training Trak it appears the proper method is to send a player with DA to pull Trak on the ledge where 40 FE are logging in and forming groups. Maybe wipe out the 10 player force of TMO there so you can tell them that FE trained them and they can spam the GMs to confuse them. After this, proceed to move your raidforce across the water to CotH more people in while watching the other raid force get destroyed.

[arsenalpow]

chest is 100% full douche.

For real, ask anyone

[Relapse2]

Only problem with this is that you didnt have a raid to pull it to.

FE did.

So, if everyone wants to know anything about training Trak it appears the proper method is to send a player with DA to pull Trak on the ledge where 40 FE are logging in and forming groups. Maybe wipe out the 10 player force of TMO there so you can tell them that FE trained them and they can spam the GMs to confuse them. After this, proceed to move your raidforce across the water to CotH more people in while watching the other raid force get destroyed.

TmO at its finest

[Tanthallas]

If what is wanted is to clean up the raid scene on this server I think the only way it is going to get better is if it gets much worse first.

1. Make training legal for raid encounters. Make the rules of VP apply to all raids.

2. Take away the ability of dumbshits to play the rules and lawyer them. Suspend players for petitioning raid issues that are not officers.

3. Etc.

Noone is ever going to respect the other side if the Guides get in the middle every time; especially when TMO leadership keeps pretending that they are the victims and not the instigators.

[Relapse2]

If what is wanted is to clean up the raid scene on this server I think the only way it is going to get better is if it gets much worse first.

1. Make training legal for raid encounters. Make the rules of VP apply to all raids.

2. Take away the ability of dumbshits to play the rules and lawyer them. Suspend players for petitioning raid issues that are not officers.

3. Etc.

Noone is ever going to respect the other side if the Guides get in the middle every time; especially when TMO leadership keeps pretending that they are the victims and not the instigators.

if one side never petitions the other side and leaves any innocent guild out of the picture.... why don't you 2 go head to head, VP rules on every raid???

[Tanthallas]

You really think people wouldnt petition if its an available option?

The option itself would need to be taken away for this to be serious.

[Alarti0001]

So you can legally train people so long as you pull around a random corpse.

Good to know.

If what is wanted is to clean up the raid scene on this server I think the only way it is going to get better is if it gets much worse first.

1. Make training legal for raid encounters. Make the rules of VP apply to all raids.

2. Take away the ability of dumbshits to play the rules and lawyer them. Suspend players for petitioning raid issues that are not officers.

3. Etc.

Noone is ever going to respect the other side if the Guides get in the middle every time; especially when FE leadership keeps pretending that they are the victims and not the instigators.

FTFY

[Loly Taa]

If what is wanted is to clean up the raid scene on this server I think the only way it is going to get better is if it gets much worse first.

1. Make training legal for raid encounters. Make the rules of VP apply to all raids.

2. Take away the ability of dumbshits to play the rules and lawyer them. Suspend players for petitioning raid issues that are not officers.

3. Etc.

Noone is ever going to respect the other side if the Guides get in the middle every time; especially when TMO leadership keeps pretending that they are the victims and not the instigators.

1.) Oh god yes, I am 100% for this- lets do it!

2.) Implementing #1 will remove the need to implement #2 except for ninja-looting.

3.) wut

[Tiggles]

Only problem with this is that you didnt have a raid to pull it to.

FE did.

So, if everyone wants to know anything about training Trak it appears the proper method is to send a player with DA to pull Trak on the ledge where 40 FE are logging in and forming groups. Maybe wipe out the 10 player force of TMO there so you can tell them that FE trained them and they can spam the GMs to confuse them. After this, proceed to move your raidforce across the water to CotH more people in while watching the other raid force get destroyed.

If you had a raid force why didn't you kill it?

You had LOST your raid force when you attempted to kill him and wiped.
that's the monk had corpses around him.


You pull you wipe twice
You train when TMO goes to attempt.

This ain't spin buddy your guild is promoting and allowing trains because you can't handle mobs that aren't given to you

[Tanthallas]

If you had a raid force why didn't you kill it?

You had LOST your raid force when you attempted to kill him and wiped.
that's the monk had corpses around him.


You pull you wipe twice
You train when TMO goes to attempt.

This ain't spin buddy your guild is promoting and allowing trains because you can't handle mobs that aren't given to you

Dont play dumb.

Trak was pulled onto the ledge on us as we were logging in, everyone got hit by the first AE. We were debating in the seconds available to call a camp out, but it was impossible at that point so we engaged him directly below the ledge.

Force scattered; half the raid taken multiple ticks of the AE; healers dead; evasive tanks not set; etc.

[maverixdamighty]

If you had a raid force why didn't you kill it?

You had LOST your raid force when you attempted to kill him and wiped.
that's the monk had corpses around him.


You pull you wipe twice
You train when TMO goes to attempt.

This ain't spin buddy your guild is promoting and allowing trains because you can't handle mobs that aren't given to you

we did have a raid force and attempted to kill him after being trained. you know after being deprived of having someone da in and position him as you so eloquently laid out the strat earlier...so instead of having ae set off and engaging we all took one early and ended up wiping at like 25%.

[Tanthallas]

This ain't spin buddy your guild is promoting and allowing trains because you can't handle mobs that aren't given to you

My guild isnt promoting anything.

I PROMOTED this because I think the way the rules are set now, it is very easy for guilds to get away with shady shit when another guild tries to play by the rules.

Making everything relevant raid encounter like VP will completely eliminate this problem.

[Tiggles]

Dont play dumb.

Trak was pulled onto the ledge on us as we were logging in, everyone got hit by the first AE. We were debating in the seconds available to call a camp out, but it was impossible at that point so we engaged him directly below the ledge.

Force scattered; half the raid taken multiple ticks of the AE; healers dead; evasive tanks not set; etc.


This is from the second attempt I logged in late and both FE and TMO where rezzing.

You attempted to pull agian and you died when trak was at 50%.

At that time FE had no camped out cleric and if you read my guild chat you can see someone commented on that fact.

At this point Trak was 100% ours you had no raid force in the zone and we where buffed in ready.


When we lev down to our spot that's when the video happens. A train from your monk pulling corpses to an imaginary raid force.

[arsenalpow]

That's a stupid solution. What happens if another guild not named TMO or FE feels like they want to participate in an encounter.

[Servellious]

Not impressed with Alovia based on my limited interaction with her. She didn't want to deal with Klubba training our solo cleric in Naggy's lair and only after I let her know that I wanted to escalate the petition up to Ephi or Sirken did she handle him. Shinko and I came to the same conclusion separately that Alovia is Jasminda, at least that's our guess.

Im putting my money on Knix, the general lack of understanding of game mechanics, and the raging in our guild chat sold me on this.

I have never given guides a problem or bitched and complained to them, but what she did and said in our guild chat today just totally blew what ever cover she had.

[Nizzarr]

Good stuff, dude was pulling corpses, get out of the way

[Tiggles]

Making everything relevant raid encounter like VP will completely eliminate my guild

[Cecily]

There's other guilds on the server?

[Tiggles]

There's other guilds on the server?

None worth caring about

[maverixdamighty]

This is from the second attempt I logged in late and both FE and TMO where rezzing.

You attempted to pull agian and you died when trak was at 50%.

At that time FE had no camped out cleric and if you read my guild chat you can see someone commented on that fact.

At this point Trak was 100% ours you had no raid force in the zone and we where buffed in ready.


When we lev down to our spot that's when the video happens. A train from your monk pulling corpses to an imaginary raid force.

you don't train at the start and trak would have been dead hence negating any of this.

[Cecily]

you don't train at the start and trak would have been dead hence negating any of this.

So basically, don't send your bads after us so we don't have to send our bads after you.
/end thread

[arsenalpow]

There's other guilds on the server?

None worth caring about

And that's why this place is a cesspool.

[maverixdamighty]

So basically, don't send your bads after us so we don't have to send our bads after you.
/end thread

trains happen but don't post a fraps of trains happening after you started it imo.

[Splorf22]

This is my conclusion too. EQ was designed as a cooperative MMO. The players were supposed to team up against the overpowered bosses. You were supposed to take your ~24 players, gradually clear down, and eventually engage. Player-vs-environment.

However due to the insane population on the server and the slow progression, we get this. Each guild logs on 50 fully buffed players, trains around, and zergs down the boss ASAP before the train gets back. It's no surprise that the game mechanics are not designed for this pseudo-PVP. Sebilis is bad; Fear and hate are much worse. So the goal becomes fucking over the other team in plausibly deniable ways, like dragging corpses around.

What boggles the mind is that there are 200+ people on the server that actually the raid scene on blue.

What I want to see is any tick where more than 24 players are aggro on trak, the excess are randomly LDed :D

[Tanthallas]

[QUOTE=Tiggles;870812]This is from the second attempt I logged in late and both FE and TMO where rezzing.

You attempted to pull agian and you died when trak was at 50%.[QUOTE]

This is all true.

I am talking about what happened before this Quickfingers...you know, the reason atleast two of your members are suspended.

[maverixdamighty]

This is my conclusion too. EQ was designed as a cooperative MMO. The players were supposed to team up against the overpowered bosses. You were supposed to take your ~24 players, gradually clear down, and eventually engage. Player-vs-environment.

However due to the insane population on the server and the slow progression, we get this. Each guild logs on 50 fully buffed players, trains around, and zergs down the boss ASAP before the train gets back. It's no surprise that the game mechanics are not designed for this pseudo-PVP. Sebilis is bad; Fear and hate are much worse. So the goal becomes fucking over the other team in plausibly deniable ways, like dragging corpses around.

What boggles the mind is that there are 200+ people on the server that actually the raid scene on blue.

What I want to see is any tick where more than 24 players are aggro on trak, the excess are randomly LDed :D

population on live was way higher than this server. i agree with most of your other points.

[Tanthallas]

That's a stupid solution. What happens if another guild not named TMO or FE feels like they want to participate in an encounter.

This is an issue of course, but unfortunately the way the server is and has been doesnt give other guilds a chance to participate if they are not willing to put in the time and deal with the bullshit.

Your solution seems to be to continue to bitch about it and do nothing. This perpetuates both the shit that is thrown on RnF and the shit that happens on the server. That is a far worse solution than mine.

[Autotune]

GMs will never allow you to train each other, it takes their involvement out and ultimately leaves them powerless.

Being a GM on p99 is about being the popular kid.

Like that Alovia (whatever the fuck) GM chilling in EC tunnel as a fairy with a big sign "please give me attention, I need attention, hey look at me please".

GMs aren't supposed to be seen unless it's required.

[Tanthallas]

What I want to see is any tick where more than 24 players are aggro on trak, the excess are randomly LDed :D

I would also like this. Make a cap for engages. Would be very hard to rush into mobs without having the relevant classes available and ready.

It doesnt, however, resolve the issues of training and griefing that people and guilds get away with all the time.

[Autotune]

I would also like this. Make a cap for engages. Would be very hard to rush into mobs without having the relevant classes available and ready.

It doesnt, however, resolve the issues of training and griefing that people and guilds get away with all the time.

nope, but train wars will and I'm glad you joined my train of thought :)

[Tiggles]

This is an issue of course, but unfortunately the way the server is and has been doesnt give other guilds a chance to participate if they are not willing to put in the time and deal with the bullshit.

Your solution seems to be to continue to bitch about it and do nothing. This perpetuates both the shit that is thrown on RnF and the shit that happens on the server. That is a far worse solution than mine.

Don't try and reason with the lesser guilds Sloan.

Your guild is not good by any means but your not BDA I'll give you that.

[arsenalpow]

This is an issue of course, but unfortunately the way the server is and has been doesnt give other guilds a chance to participate if they are not willing to put in the time and deal with the bullshit.

Your solution seems to be to continue to bitch about it and do nothing. This perpetuates both the shit that is thrown on RnF and the shit that happens on the server. That is a far worse solution than mine.

Fuck you Sloan. To you "do nothing" means "don't play the game the way TMO has dictated that this game should be played". Your solution isn't unique, you're just attempting to fight TMO using TMO tactics which is exactly why you splintered off because BDA didn't want to pursue that avenue. Just because I'm not sponsoring the concept of all hours batphones and mass invites so a guild can pull 40 people at any time of the day doesn't mean I should barred from content. There are numerous guilds on this server that can kill content, the issue is the mass amounts of douchebaggery involved.

[Autotune]

Fuck you Sloan. To you "do nothing" means "don't play the game the way TMO has dictated that this game should be played". Your solution isn't unique, you're just attempting to fight TMO using TMO tactics which is exactly why you splintered off because BDA didn't want to pursue that avenue. Just because I'm not sponsoring the concept of all hours batphones and mass invites so a guild can pull 40 people at any time of the day doesn't mean I should barred from content. There are numerous guilds on this server that can kill content, the issue is the mass amounts of douchebaggery involved.

TMO didn't pioneer p99 raiding tactics, shits been here long before TMO was even a guild.

[Tiggles]

Fuck you Sloan. To you "do nothing" means "don't play the game the way TMO has dictated that this game should be played". Your solution isn't unique, you're just attempting to fight TMO using TMO tactics which is exactly why you splintered off because BDA didn't want to pursue that avenue. Just because I'm not sponsoring the concept of all hours batphones and mass invites so a guild can pull 40 people at any time of the day doesn't mean I should barred from content. There are numerous guilds on this server that can kill content, the issue is the mass amounts of douchebaggery involved.

Wahh wahh my guild died and went to PEQ and now I'm all alone and no one will let me raid.

[Tanthallas]

Don't try and reason with the lesser guilds Sloan.

Your guild is not good by any means but your not BDA I'll give you that.

Only difference between FE and TMO and other guilds is that the former two are capable/willing to devote extreme amounts of time to this game and are stubborn enough to wade through the bullshit that is the raid scene here.

[Splorf22]

Fundamentally the problem is there is an artificially scarce resource with high demand. Currently with the variance system players 'pay' in time. Which is silly, but then EQ is so easy that its difficult to pay in skill. God every time I read these forums I want to go play on the pvp server.

[Tanthallas]

Fuck you Sloan. To you "do nothing" means "don't play the game the way TMO has dictated that this game should be played". Your solution isn't unique, you're just attempting to fight TMO using TMO tactics which is exactly why you splintered off because BDA didn't want to pursue that avenue. Just because I'm not sponsoring the concept of all hours batphones and mass invites so a guild can pull 40 people at any time of the day doesn't mean I should barred from content. There are numerous guilds on this server that can kill content, the issue is the mass amounts of douchebaggery involved.

I never disagreed with you about anything other than your willingness to devote the time and resources necessary to fight.

[arsenalpow]

TMO didn't pioneer p99 raiding tactics, shits been here long before TMO was even a guild.

Then replace TMO with whoever the originals were. IB, TR, Fishbait, DA, etc

Things have always been toxic, it's just more prevalent now that the end game is even more cluttered.

[arsenalpow]

I never disagreed with you about anything other than your willingness to devote the time and resources necessary to fight.

Then drop the fucking rhetoric.

[Autotune]

Then replace TMO with whoever the originals were. IB, TR, Fishbait, DA, etc

Things have always been toxic, it's just more prevalent now that the end game is even more cluttered.

no, it's not really more cluttered either.

It's more prevalent now because GMs/Staff still don't know how to fix it and actually just do things to make it worse. The more they involve themselves and change rules each week is just bad. Promising changes and fixes and not even attempting them after several months, bad. Allowing shit GMs/Guides to actually have a say in raiding, bad. These go on and on.

[Tiggles]

Chest stop shitting up my thread with your bullshit

[Tanthallas]

Then drop the fucking rhetoric.

What rhetoric?

Your solution is to do nothing until the game structure suits you. You refuse to play the game because you dont get your way. Am I wrong?

[Cecily]

That's not the way BDA does things.

[Autotune]

That's not the way BDA does things.

because they don't do anything.

[Tanthallas]

By 'game' I mean the 'game' that is endgame raiding.

[Godefroi]

Posting in a horrible thread created by a 245 pounds nerd.

[Tiggles]

Whenever you play the game of thrones, you either win or die; there is no middle ground.

[Godefroi]

Whenever you play the game of thrones, you either win or die; there is no middle ground.

1) Trak pop,train war happened, we got trakanon (you QQ and petition, lol @ trying to get loot).
2) Trak pops, no trains, we destroy him, you lag behind super slow.
3) Trak pops, train war happens, you get trakanon.

FE 2 - TMQ 1

Still super fat, still fucked a girl with arms twice the size of my legs. Sad.

[arsenalpow]

What rhetoric?

Your solution is to do nothing until the game structure suits you. You refuse to play the game because you dont get your way. Am I wrong?

You're right Sloan. We do nothing as a guild, and by nothing I mean we completely avoid the ENTIRE raid scene because I can't get my way. I'm not entitled to mobs unless I want to sit at VS for hourssssss even past his window when the spawn bugs out, I should also park my guild at Trak so I can wake up at 4am and race 100 other sweaty jobless nerds only to get trained over and over again, deal with confused support staff that can't even determine who's at fault, and then post about it in RnF. We don't deserve loot because we don't play by the current rules as dictated by FE and TMO. If you ain't first you're last.

[Metallikus]

no, it's not really more cluttered either.

It's more prevalent now because GMs/Staff still don't know how to fix it and actually just do things to make it worse. The more they involve themselves and change rules each week is just bad. Promising changes and fixes and not even attempting them after several months, bad. Allowing shit GMs/Guides to actually have a say in raiding, bad. These go on and on.

Have to agree with this guy here.

[Servellious]

Don't you hate when you take a shower then you have shit. Man just totally fucked up my pre work routine

[Godefroi]

You're right Sloan. We do nothing as a guild, and by nothing I mean we completely avoid the ENTIRE raid scene because I can't get my way. I'm not entitled to mobs unless I want to sit at VS for hourssssss even past his window when the spawn bugs out, I should also park my guild at Trak so I can wake up at 4am and race 100 other sweaty jobless nerds only to get trained over and over again, deal with confused support staff that can't even determine who's at fault, and then post about it in RnF. We don't deserve loot because we don't play by the current rules as dictated by FE and TMO. If you ain't first you're last.

p99 is a competitive server, people are dirty, people train, shit, people even send dick pictures.

Get over it. It won't change. What can change though is unlike TMO for now, guild could work it out together and agree on making FFA raids, uncontesting some encounter sometimes to let people discover and have fun too.

But TMO has made it clear, they want the cake and the baker's ass. We're taking cakes, still need the baker's ass.

[Metallikus]

and Kagok still owes me 10k for his gay 49ers losing to the Ravens.

[Tiggles]

You're right Sloan. We do nothing as a guild, and by nothing I mean we completely avoid the ENTIRE raid scene because I can't get my way. I'm not entitled to mobs unless I want to sit at VS for hourssssss even past his window when the spawn bugs out, I should also park my guild at Trak so I can wake up at 4am and race 100 other sweaty jobless nerds only to get trained over and over again, deal with confused support staff that can't even determine who's at fault, and then post about it in RnF. We don't deserve loot because we don't play by the current rules as dictated by FE and TMO. If you ain't first you're last.

Whenever you play the game of thrones, you either win or die; there is no middle ground.

The best thing Sloan did was leave that worthless carcass you call a guild when he did.

[Tiggles]

p99 is a competitive server, people are dirty, people train, shit, people even send dick pictures.

Get over it. It won't change. What can change though is unlike TMO for now, guild could work it out together and agree on making FFA raids, uncontesting some encounter sometimes to let people discover and have fun too.

But TMO has made it clear, they want the cake and the baker's ass. We're taking cakes, still need the baker's ass.

Gonna go out of character here but that quote at the end made me laugh.

[Tanthallas]

You're right Sloan. We do nothing as a guild, and by nothing I mean we completely avoid the ENTIRE raid scene because I can't get my way. I'm not entitled to mobs unless I want to sit at VS for hourssssss even past his window when the spawn bugs out, I should also park my guild at Trak so I can wake up at 4am and race 100 other sweaty jobless nerds only to get trained over and over again, deal with confused support staff that can't even determine who's at fault, and then post about it in RnF. We don't deserve loot because we don't play by the current rules as dictated by FE and TMO. If you ain't first you're last.

I would say that I am sorry that things are this way, however I have no reason to appologize.

Regardless of how stupid shit is, if you want to put the time and/or effort in to change them then do it. I dont see what the point of continuing to rage about how fucked up everything is and do nothing but refuse to participate in protest.

Only action will change things.

[Tanthallas]

people even send dick pictures.

Chest mad he isnt getting these imo.

[Frogie305]

First decent post Hurley has ever made. I lol'd

I thought so to.. Lolz two thumbs up hurley.

[cyryllis]

must have some skinny legs there, try squats it will help build them- also try to get your protein intake over 200g a day which can be hard on whole foods but easily supplemented. I Understand your frustration, when I was 12 I had twiggy legs too.

[Godefroi]

Only action will change things.

[BigLe2e]

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4603931007451519&pid=15.1

Back and to the left! Back! and to the left!

Now that! is one magic loogie

IT came from that gravely road above! Keith Hernandez, I despise thee!

[Tanthallas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jwq5Sr9X8c

This is what FE logged into.

TMO pulls Trak out.

TMO running from lair (robe of azure sky dude and gnome; unless it was sanluen or adrianna or swarws, wonder who has those robes).

Two groups of TMO proceed to kill Prot while Trak is on FE at ledge.

New Trak strat when low on numbers: Pull Trak onto ledge, lock down other raid force, clear Prot while raidforce sets up away from ledge to CotH and res.

Is this VP?

[jkfranklin]

Does tiggles have a life? Literally a thread everyday about pixels. Whats it like in your moms basement?

[bluejam]

According to Alovia, the GMs no longer use fraps as evidence.
Haha, cool. So unless there's a guide/GM present for a certain encounter and/or incident it's "everything goes".

Enjoy guys.

[Tiggles]

Does tiggles have a life? Literally a thread everyday about pixels. Whats it like in your moms basement?

it's furnished

[arsenalpow]

paused at the 3 second mark of Sloan's video

http://i.imgur.com/EnHPFuL.jpg

Nietche Totenreich of The Mystical Order

[Tiggles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jwq5Sr9X8c

This is what FE logged into.

TMO pulls Trak out.

TMO running from lair (robe of azure sky dude and gnome; unless it was sanluen or adrianna or swarws, wonder who has those robes).

Two groups of TMO proceed to kill Prot while Trak is on FE at ledge.

New Trak strat when low on numbers: Pull Trak onto ledge, lock down other raid force, clear Prot while raidforce sets up away from ledge to CotH and res.

Is this VP?

Blurry fraps showing no clear trainer or name probably self trained because you're guild is terrible

also if we killed protector why was he up when we engaged trak?

Tell more lies

[Tiggles]

paused at the 3 second mark of Sloan's video

http://i.imgur.com/EnHPFuL.jpg

Nietche Totenreich of The Mystical Order


shows him running off the ledge to escape from FE's train.

Alovia was there the entire time and she banned people like the FE who trained everything.

[Tanthallas]

I said you tried to.

It is clear in the video that you have thrump, etc., on Prot while Trak is on us at ledge...

[Tiggles]

I said you tried to.

It is clear in the video that you have thrump, etc., on Prot while Trak is on us at ledge...

also, that video has no music or cut away or anything funny in it...well anything funnier then your guild being bad.

INADMISSIBLE

[Cecily]

INADMISSIBLE

Like all fraps now!

[bluejam]

You're right Sloan. We do nothing as a guild, and by nothing I mean we completely avoid the ENTIRE raid scene because I can't get my way. I'm not entitled to mobs unless I want to sit at VS for hourssssss even past his window when the spawn bugs out, I should also park my guild at Trak so I can wake up at 4am and race 100 other sweaty jobless nerds only to get trained over and over again, deal with confused support staff that can't even determine who's at fault, and then post about it in RnF. We don't deserve loot because we don't play by the current rules as dictated by FE and TMO. If you ain't first you're last.
No one's entitled to shit on this server.

[Hurley]

Chest just put in an app and I will push it through... stop with this "just the tip" shit.

[quido]

*dick tated

[arsenalpow]

Chest just put in an app and I will push it through... stop with this "just the tip" shit.

nah, I enjoy drawing dicks on peopls faces in the BDA forums, can't leave that behind

[Hurley]

nah, I enjoy drawing dicks on peopls faces in the BDA forums, can't leave that behind

Neitche did not deserve that and you know it!

[quido]

I enjoy dicks on peopls faces in BDA, can't leave that behind

[Hurley]

nah, I enjoy drawing dicks on peopls faces in the BDA forums, can't leave that behind

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ikaqYpGZT64?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ikaqYpGZT64?hl=en_US&amp;version=3&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[Mortiiss]

You're right Sloan. We do nothing as a guild, and by nothing I mean we completely avoid the ENTIRE raid scene because I can't get my way. I'm not entitled to mobs unless I want to sit at VS for hourssssss even past his window when the spawn bugs out, I should also park my guild at Trak so I can wake up at 4am and race 100 other sweaty jobless nerds only to get trained over and over again, deal with confused support staff that can't even determine who's at fault, and then post about it in RnF. We don't deserve loot because we don't play by the current rules as dictated by FE and TMO. If you ain't first you're last.

No one's entitled to shit on this server.

You work for your shit, nothing is free. Sorry. You don't have to like how shit is, but it is what it is.

As for the trains and Alovia's calls: is fraps really not considered evidence any more for a train? That's kind of unsettling for the future of the server if so.

[jkfranklin]

Blurry fraps showing no clear trainer or name probably self trained because you're guild is terrible

also if we killed protector why was he up when we engaged trak?

Tell more lies

BECAUSE YOU ARE GUILD IS TERRIBLE!! 111

[Tiggles]

BECAUSE YOU ARE GUILD IS TERRIBLE!! 111

First draft had me calling sloan terrible but then I realized he isn't bad so i changed it.

SORRY

[Hurley]

It isn't Sloan's guild it's mine.

[Tiggles]

It isn't Sloan's guild it's mine.

who are you?

[OforOppression]

?

[Dullah]

The OPs logic is about as bad as that of the player recording who went 10 feet across the water to avoid Trak's massive agro instead going around the corner or below the ledge to line of sight the dragon...

[Tanthallas]

It isn't Sloan's guild it's mine.

Sloan isnt real.

[Hurley]

Sloan isnt real.

I forgot the never forget date :(

[Fazlazen]

The OPs logic is about as bad as that of the player recording who went 10 feet across the water to avoid Trak's massive agro instead going around the corner or below the ledge to line of sight the dragon...

a good reporter does what it takes to get his footage.

[Tanthallas]

I forgot the never forget date :(

GG

[Fazlazen]

Playing a shadow knight is where it's at in those types of situations.

[Ele]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jwq5Sr9X8c

This is what FE logged into.

TMO pulls Trak out.

TMO running from lair (robe of azure sky dude and gnome; unless it was sanluen or adrianna or swarws, wonder who has those robes).

Two groups of TMO proceed to kill Prot while Trak is on FE at ledge.

New Trak strat when low on numbers: Pull Trak onto ledge, lock down other raid force, clear Prot while raidforce sets up away from ledge to CotH and res.

Is this VP?

Know what time it is? Alternate angle FRAPs time! http://youtu.be/mHQYe00E8G4

You sure you want to stick with that story you have going there? Your boy Helicopter has some explaining to do with his purposeful pathing exploit causing Trak to gather up all the juggs and bug out.

You can see me (Muiriol with the polar bear cap) at 1 second into your video behind the far wall, next to your buff window.

You claim a TMO in Azure Robe ran from lair to train you guys, but at 2.5 seconds you can see the name is Nietche. If he is indeed the one that trained, why is he still alive at 30 seconds? Why is he still alive at the time that FE ran into the lair at 45 seconds?

You can see Helicopter still standing on the far wall between your swords at 37 seconds in your video.

My Fraps starts 2 seconds before yours.
See summon message @3s in my fraps, and @1s in yours.
However the second summon message is @25s in my fraps, and @12s in yours.
Third summon message is @40s in my fraps, and @27s in yours.

Don't know why yours is missing time.

[kenzar]

Know what time it is? Alternate angle FRAPs time! http://youtu.be/mHQYe00E8G4



That alternate angle should be called a terrible angle lol. Most of it is staring at a wall.

[Ele]

That alternate angle should be called a terrible angle lol. Most of it is staring at a wall.

Avoids that aoe boss. Others should learn.

[kenzar]

f9 and insert/delete, maybe some Alt+pageup/pagedown. The aoe is the easy part.

[kenzar]

alt + arrowup/arrowdown

[Alovia]

According to Alovia, the GMs no longer use fraps as evidence. I guess that's convenient for TMO because there is a fraps of a member of your guild training us while we were preparing at ledge.

Same shit, different week.

Trak would have been dead before TMO even had a raid force logged in capable of engaging. Anything after that should be negated.

Wonder how long it'll take for the staff to wake up and realize that a handful of TMO are stirring the pot and causing this drama on a weekly basis.

First off dont take what I said out of context. Both guilds wanted to show FRAPS of them being the victim. I did not need to see any of the FRAPs or SS because I was sitting right there watching it all.

The other thing is I said I will not watch FRAPS as the SOLE and ONLY evidence.

[Cecily]

Stop derailing this TMO & FE anti-BDA hugfest.

[maverixdamighty]

First off dont take what I said out of context. Both guilds wanted to show FRAPS of them being the victim. I did not need to see any of the FRAPs or SS because I was sitting right there watching it all.

The other thing is I said I will not watch FRAPS as the SOLE and ONLY evidence.

Being serious, with you watching what did you observe if you are allowed to comment?

[Tanthallas]

Know what time it is? Alternate angle FRAPs time! http://youtu.be/mHQYe00E8G4

You sure you want to stick with that story you have going there? Your boy Helicopter has some explaining to do with his purposeful pathing exploit causing Trak to gather up all the juggs and bug out.

You can see me (Muiriol with the polar bear cap) at 1 second into your video behind the far wall, next to your buff window.

You claim a TMO in Azure Robe ran from lair to train you guys, but at 2.5 seconds you can see the name is Nietche. If he is indeed the one that trained, why is he still alive at 30 seconds? Why is he still alive at the time that FE ran into the lair at 45 seconds?

You can see Helicopter still standing on the far wall between your swords at 37 seconds in your video.

My Fraps starts 2 seconds before yours.
See summon message @3s in my fraps, and @1s in yours.
However the second summon message is @25s in my fraps, and @12s in yours.
Third summon message is @40s in my fraps, and @27s in yours.

Don't know why yours is missing time.

OMG my FRAPs doesnt answer any of your questions but instead posits a shit ton of irrelevant ones!

So let me try to help now by actually making sense.

1. TMO ran in before FE with about 2-3 groups, most likely to stall Trak while others log in to engage.

2. Instead of this, Trak was pulled out of the lair. The TMO running away obviously are all not training Trak...the point is that the stall went bad for whatever reason such that TMO started running out of lair. Some had agro on Trak; some did not.

3. The problem is twofold: First, a bad stall that turns into a train is hardly distinguishable from a train. There is no such thing as a goodwill attempt to stall. Second, it is impossible, without GM encounter logs, to tell which one of these TMO running out (or even inside lair) have agro on Trak or not. The point here is that TMO was the first to agro, TMO had members running out of lair and TMO had members inside of lair all the while FE is logging into Trak AEing them at the ledge.

As far as helicopter is concerned; he ran to exactly where TMO made camp to res up after this first wipe of FEs raid was done and Trak reset. This is a logical choice of a place to be because it avoids the AE when trak pops out..hence why TMO set up there afterwards. If you graced us with the rest of your FRAPs, it would show that the juggs ran up there quite easily and killed Helicopter once they were done with whatever they were doing over there, not to mention there were other people in the same spot. Unfortunately, your FRAPs is useless.

[maverixdamighty]

Know what time it is? Alternate angle FRAPs time! http://youtu.be/mHQYe00E8G4

You sure you want to stick with that story you have going there? Your boy Helicopter has some explaining to do with his purposeful pathing exploit causing Trak to gather up all the juggs and bug out.

You can see me (Muiriol with the polar bear cap) at 1 second into your video behind the far wall, next to your buff window.

You claim a TMO in Azure Robe ran from lair to train you guys, but at 2.5 seconds you can see the name is Nietche. If he is indeed the one that trained, why is he still alive at 30 seconds? Why is he still alive at the time that FE ran into the lair at 45 seconds?

You can see Helicopter still standing on the far wall between your swords at 37 seconds in your video.

My Fraps starts 2 seconds before yours.
See summon message @3s in my fraps, and @1s in yours.
However the second summon message is @25s in my fraps, and @12s in yours.
Third summon message is @40s in my fraps, and @27s in yours.

Don't know why yours is missing time.

that video is awful and after we had already been trained.

[Ele]

Unfortunately, your FRAPs is useless.

that video is awful and after we had already been trained.

Even though it starts before Hurley's video and lasts longer? By that logic, FE's fraps is even worse.

[maverixdamighty]

Even though it starts before Hurley's video and lasts longer? By that logic, FE's fraps is even worse.

hurley's video doesn't show the train starting either afaik. he stated we logged in to it being there. reading comprehension...

[maverixdamighty]

Even though it starts before Hurley's video and lasts longer? By that logic, FE's fraps is even worse.

also not sure what kind of calculator you are using but 1:46>:58 seconds or whatever your video was. logic lol....

[Ele]

also not sure what kind of calculator you are using but 1:46>:58 seconds or whatever your video was. logic lol....

watching the other 20 minutes of fraps i have, you jelly?

[maverixdamighty]

watching the other 20 minutes of fraps i have, you jelly?

not if it's like that 1m clip you posted of pure crap..

[Ele]

not if it's like that 1m clip you posted of pure crap..

I'll count you as not interested in the truth. You like living in a dream land.

[Tiggles]

Hey guys I'm back from dinner.

Whats happening?

[Ele]

Hey guys I'm back from dinner.

Whats happening?

People hating on my fraps, but I'll get over it. :(

[AenarieFenninRo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jwq5Sr9X8c
This is what FE logged into.
TMO pulls Trak out.
TMO running from lair (robe of azure sky dude and gnome; unless it was sanluen or adrianna or swarws, wonder who has those robes).
Two groups of TMO proceed to kill Prot while Trak is on FE at ledge.
New Trak strat when low on numbers: Pull Trak onto ledge, lock down other raid force, clear Prot while raidforce sets up away from ledge to CotH and res.
Is this VP?

That is not anything how I see that video...

1) your video doesnt show anyone training, it shows trak already being below ledge, but lets put that aside for a second

TMO engaged trak, he pops out of lair following someone, again we dont know who because your video doesn't start early enough,
TMO TAKES IT BACK INTO LAIR,
FE comes down off ledge, and engages an already engaged mob at top of ramp,
When numbers start going down, everyone makes a run for it
you get summoned by Protector. /video end

>>> Trak NEVER came up on the rock where you guys were camped, you all came down instead. <<<

Why did you come down? Well, if you were getting hit by AE's already, then why not make a go of it, this seems like a logical idea

If you got hit with AEs while TMO was trying to take him back into lair, thats a side issue, but TMO DID take it back into the lair, your own video is proof of that!


Now back to #1
There is a possibility in any raid situation, regardless of who is fighting what that someone is going to botch something. If you log out within a reasonable range of where this botch happens, you're likely to get caught up in it, this is EXACTLY what happened here, you got caught up in it because you camped within agro range of trak poking his head out of lair.

The upside of camping on top of the mountain like you did, is you can probably engage a little faster (less distance to cover), the downside is that if anything goes wrong, you're in range and going to get hit, which in this instance happened.

If you're going to make claims about someone training you and then post a fraps of the mob not being trained by being below you already, then its just bad luck you logged in when you did.

[maverixdamighty]

That is not anything how I see that video...

1) your video doesnt show anyone training, it shows trak already being below ledge, but lets put that aside for a second

TMO engaged trak, he pops out of lair following someone, again we dont know who because your video doesn't start early enough,
TMO TAKES IT BACK INTO LAIR,
FE comes down off ledge, and engages an already engaged mob at top of ramp,
When numbers start going down, everyone makes a run for it
you get summoned by Protector. /video end

>>> Trak NEVER came up on the rock where you guys were camped, you all came down instead. <<<

Why did you come down? Well, if you were getting hit by AE's already, then why not make a go of it, this seems like a logical idea

If you got hit with AEs while TMO was trying to take him back into lair, thats a side issue, but TMO DID take it back into the lair, your own video is proof of that!


Now back to #1
There is a possibility in any raid situation, regardless of who is fighting what that someone is going to botch something. If you log out within a reasonable range of where this botch happens, you're likely to get caught up in it, this is EXACTLY what happened here, you got caught up in it because you camped within agro range of trak poking his head out of lair.

The upside of camping on top of the mountain like you did, is you can probably engage a little faster (less distance to cover), the downside is that if anything goes wrong, you're in range and going to get hit, which in this instance happened.

If you're going to make claims about someone training you and then post a fraps of the mob not being trained by being below you already, then its just bad luck you logged in when you did.

trak was agro from your fail attepmt. no other way to spin it once he passes that corner he is agro at poop hill.

[AenarieFenninRo]

trak was agro from your fail attepmt. no other way to spin it once he passes that corner he is agro at poop hill.

agro on poop hill does not constitute a train as is being said, it constitutes you being in a bad spot.

[maverixdamighty]

agro on poop hill does not constitute a train as is being said, it constitutes you being in a bad spot.

i never claimed otherwise. you guys were morons to engage with 12 or whatever you had though obviously was an attempt to do just what happened.

[AenarieFenninRo]

and considering after it had been taken into the lair THAT is when you engaged, you had PLENTY of time to have camped out instead to drop your own agro.

Simply put, you look foolish for running down there to engage on an already engaged mob rather than camping for safety

[maverixdamighty]

and considering after it had been taken into the lair THAT is when you engaged, you had PLENTY of time to have camped out instead to drop your own agro.

Simply put, you look foolish for running down there to engage on an already engaged mob rather than camping for safety

wouldn't have looked foolish if he died which he should have. i doubt we would have gotten many people camped out and as we were already raid buffed it was worth the shot to just kill him after your fail. we lost the gamble this time.

p.s. nice agro swipe at sev. how'd that work out for you tools?

[AenarieFenninRo]

i never claimed otherwise. you guys were morons to engage with 12 or whatever you had.

I'll use your own words here:
wouldn't have looked foolish if he died which he should have.


Maverix, you may not have said we trained in your postings, and I never said you did, my statement was that it has been said, by the same person who posted the link... for proof here's Tanthallas comment, highlighted for reference:


So, if everyone wants to know anything about training Trak it appears the proper method is to send a player with DA to pull Trak on the ledge where 40 FE are logging in and forming groups.

I restate my earlier for clarification's sake:


There is a possibility in any raid situation, regardless of who is fighting what that someone is going to botch something. If you log out within a reasonable range of where this botch happens, you're likely to get caught up in it, this is EXACTLY what happened here, you got caught up in it because you camped within agro range of trak poking his head out of lair.

The upside of camping on top of the mountain like you did, is you can probably engage a little faster (less distance to cover), the downside is that if anything goes wrong, you're in range and going to get hit, which in this instance happened.

If you're going to make claims about someone training you and then post a fraps of the mob not being trained by being below you already, then its just bad luck you logged in when you did.

[Tanthallas]

wouldn't have looked foolish if he died which he should have. i doubt we would have gotten many people camped out and as we were already raid buffed it was worth the shot to just kill him after your fail. we lost the gamble this time.

p.s. nice agro swipe at sev. how'd that work out for you tools?

It wasnt about a gamble. We ALL got hit by the AE, and agro of Trak was dropped on us. Attempting to log off amidst Traks AE is suicide.

[Tanthallas]

[QUOTE=AenarieFenninRo;871141]There is a possibility in any raid situation, regardless of who is fighting what that someone is going to botch something. If you log out within a reasonable range of where this botch happens, you're likely to get caught up in it, this is EXACTLY what happened here, you got caught up in it because you camped within agro range of trak poking his head out of lair.

The upside of camping on top of the mountain like you did, is you can probably engage a little faster (less distance to cover), the downside is that if anything goes wrong, you're in range and going to get hit, which in this instance happened.

If you're going to make claims about someone training you and then post a fraps of the mob not being trained by being below you already, then its just bad luck you logged in when you did.[QUOTE]

No.

The reason why Trak came out of his lair and AE'd us is crucial. That is: was it because of a failed engage or a train?

TMO has to claim they planned to kill Trak with the numbers they engaged with or claim they were stalling for more to get on if they are claiming it was not an intentional train. As the first one is out, I would think they were trying to stall.

My question is...if a stall turns into a train of the sort that happened, and if a GM is present as Alovia said she was, why is it that no action was taken?

[Tiggles]

Lots of sad/bad FE in this thread.

[Alovia]

Being serious, with you watching what did you observe if you are allowed to comment?

I have already discussed this with the Officers of the guilds.

[Jarnauga]

Im putting my money on Knix, the general lack of understanding of game mechanics, and the raging in our guild chat sold me on this.

I have never given guides a problem or bitched and complained to them, but what she did and said in our guild chat today just totally blew what ever cover she had.

http://2damnfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Team-America-Puking-Up-a-Storm.gif

[Tiggles]

I have already discussed this with the Officers of the guilds.

Hey Alovia could you log in and take the sev loot from FE? We got FTE but there being jerks.

[Shinko]

Tiggles go away trying 2 hard

[Scowlie]

You pull you wipe twice
You train when TMO goes to attempt.

Oh, is that what happened? :rolleyes:

If your guild didn't train our raid to begin with, we would have killed Trak. You don't think it's obvious when your entire raid prepares opposite of the ledge and you have two people in TMO peering around the corner before you have the numbers to even engage? Then suddenly Trak trains on top of our entire raid... Anything after that fact is moot. Your entire raid should be suspended for that bullshit. Congrats on getting away with YET another train.

Also, good job trying to steal Sev on our engage. I'm sure your guild has already entered 10 petitions crying about it.

Pathetic.

[Tiggles]

Oh, is that what happened? :rolleyes:

If your guild didn't train our raid to begin with, we would have killed Trak. You don't think it's obvious when your entire raid prepares opposite of the ledge and you have two people in TMO peering around the corner before you have the numbers to even engage? Then suddenly Trak trains on top of our entire raid... Anything after that fact is moot. Your entire raid should be suspended for that bullshit. Congrats on getting away with YET another train.

Also, good job trying to steal Sev on our engage. I'm sure your guild has already entered 10 petitions crying about it.

Pathetic.

I don't read ANYTHING you post, i dont Ignore you because sometimes you post gifs I like but other then that I skip.

[Metallikus]

The reason why Trak came out of his lair and AE'd us is crucial. That is: was it because of a failed engage or a train?

TMO has to claim they planned to kill Trak with the numbers they engaged with or claim they were stalling for more to get on if they are claiming it was not an intentional train. As the first one is out, I would think they were trying to stall.

My question is...if a stall turns into a train of the sort that happened, and if a GM is present as Alovia said she was, why is it that no action was taken?

If TMO engaged trak with 12, and then subsequently trained trakanon out of the lair into the FE raid force, why is TMO not suspended? Especially with a GM eyewitness.....and fraps to prove that trak was trained out fo the lair.

FROM ROGAEN CONCERNING GLOBAL SERVER RULES:

Training
Training can be defined as the intentional manipulation of NPC Placement and Aggro in such a way that causes it to attack another player that it wouldn't have otherwise if at it's normal spawn location. The most basic form of this is "dumping" mobs near another player or party and escaping via a form of teleportation or death. Intentional or not, this is against the rules. This rule is not limited to the basic example given, as there are many different forms of training players will use. You take all responsibility for mobs that you aggro. If you are trying to escape from a pack of NPC's but there is another group in your way, do not run through them. Even if your intention is not to train them, it would inevitable cause this and you may be subject to disciplinary. It is recommended that you take the death (Your responsibility for aggroing the mobs) and request a resurrection from nearby players.

If you happen to accidentally train a group of players, please immedietely notify the staff via /petition that you have done so by accident. Apologize to the players in question, and assist them with any recovery needed. If the staff hears about your train before you tell them, intention is no longer an excuse. (Repeated unintentional trains will still result in disciplinary action).

source: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2651

From the evidence gathered so far, tmo was responsible for trakanon + juggs that trained FE.

TMO had Trakanon "engaged" (they actually engaged protector and led trakanon around the corner to agro FE raid force) and subsequently trained another raid force with the mob during the engage.

These facts havent been in question. TMO agroed trakanon first and a raid force was trained as a result of their agro.

[Scowlie]

I don't read ANYTHING you post, i dont Ignore you because sometimes you post gifs I like but other then that I skip.

It's ok, we can be friends some day.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m33l09GGtN1rqbtmpo1_250.gif

[Metallikus]

also concerning unintentional trains still resulting in disciplinary action, how many fucking times can you get away with "accidental" trains before actual action is taken? gtfo with your accidents already and gms covering for tmo with "their puller was new and didnt know which way to go" as an excuse for kiting dragons.

[BrianXVX]

Hey Alovia could you log in and take the sev loot from FE? We got FTE but there being jerks.

There was no question that we got FTE, there were 3 TMO in zone when we pulled.
Even assuming this were true, you had no meaningful raid force in zone, while we had multiple groups including a tank and cleric.

At least claim you were too busy in VP or something.

[Metallikus]

There was no question that we got FTE, there were 3 TMO in zone when we pulled.
Even assuming this were true, you had no meaningful raid force in zone, while we had multiple groups including a tank and cleric.

At least claim you were too busy in VP or something.

one of those 3 tmocould have had fte and it would be legit. if they had it, u have to let them try to kill it. but because it's tmo, they would probly jsut kite it around and say they were new and got lost and the gm would wave them thru.

[Scowlie]

also concerning unintentional trains still resulting in disciplinary action, how many fucking times can you get away with "accidental" trains before actual action is taken? gtfo with your accidents already and gms covering for tmo with "their puller was new and didnt know which way to go" as an excuse for kiting dragons.

Does it really matter? A vast majority of people who raid in TMO and FE have multiple accounts with raid ready characters. Until they start handing out raid suspensions, disciplinary action such as individual suspension does nothing.

There is a reason why Eccezan told gis guild to stop using autofire on mains, because they have a thousand characters ready to throw away when they train, kite or use third party programs. Hey, if it's not a TMO main, no harm or foul, right?

[Scowlie]

^ That goes for any raid guild, not just TMO. Just sayin', guilds need to be held more responsible for their members. Maybe then the slime players that are ruining the raid scene in every guild will slowly disappear from the server.

[Tanthallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9f0TRG0gU4

GG

[Ele]

It wasnt about a gamble. We ALL got hit by the AE, and agro of Trak was dropped on us. Attempting to log off amidst Traks AE is suicide.

lol doesn't even understand basic game mechanics.

[Tanthallas]

Earliest FRAPs I could find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9f0TRG0gU4

This Fraps is from another perspective that stats 30 seconds into the last one. You can see Hurley pop in during the last FRAPs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jwq5Sr9X8c

1.Why is it that Trak is summoning ONLY TMO members and Trak is DIRECTLY on top of FEs raid?
2.Why is it that the majority of TMO are hudled in the lair away from the AE while Trak is clearly being held on FEs raid EVEN THOUGH FE does not have agro on Trak?


We end up running in because we were all getting AE'd. Between these two FRAPs, this is the most blatant raid interfernce I have seen in a long time.

[Tanthallas]

Try spinning this shit.

Please.

[Metallikus]

Earliest FRAPs I could find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9f0TRG0gU4

This Fraps is from another perspective that stats 30 seconds into the last one. You can see Hurley pop in during the last FRAPs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jwq5Sr9X8c

1.Why is it that Trak is summoning ONLY TMO members and Trak is DIRECTLY on top of FEs raid?
2.Why is it that the majority of TMO are hudled in the lair away from the AE while Trak is clearly being held on FEs raid EVEN THOUGH FE does not have agro on Trak?


We end up running in because we were all getting AE'd. Between these two FRAPs, this is the most blatant raid interfernce I have seen in a long time.

so why won't the gm's take your petition and suspend tmo for the umpteenth time for blatant raid interference? why have all previous suspensions been wiped from their record and giving them a new clean slate each week after pulling this bullshit? for a while , guilds were held accountable for the actions of their shitty members, then all of a sudden only single members/officers receive suspensions when it is condoned by their guild leadership and their guild benefits directly form their griefing? Can we get a non-tmo homer on the server staff one time?

[Ele]

Earliest FRAPs I could find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9f0TRG0gU4

This Fraps is from another perspective that stats 30 seconds into the last one. You can see Hurley pop in during the last FRAPs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jwq5Sr9X8c

1.Why is it that Trak is summoning ONLY TMO members and Trak is DIRECTLY on top of FEs raid?
2.Why is it that the majority of TMO are hudled in the lair away from the AE while Trak is clearly being held on FEs raid EVEN THOUGH FE does not have agro on Trak?


We end up running in because we were all getting AE'd. Between these two FRAPs, this is the most blatant raid interfernce I have seen in a long time.

Because Trak is aggro on Helicopter and Helicopter is standing on the back wall causing Trak to bug out on pathing.

[Ele]

so why won't the gm's take your petition and suspend tmo for the umpteenth time for blatant raid interference? [...] Can we get a non-tmo homer on the server staff one time?

Stop conflicting yourself.

[Ele]

We end up running in because we were all getting AE'd.

Why would you do that?

[baramur]

I was standing on the ledge across water when trak was trained the 2nd time as Fe recovered on poop hill. Cyrano went in stealthed and must of.been unaware trak now sees hide and aggroed trak and trained. I have a ss of trak beaming a smile at cyrano right before cyrano dies and trak aggros me and rest of raid.

[Tanthallas]

Because Trak is aggro on Helicopter and Helicopter is standing on the back wall causing Trak to bug out on pathing.

1. Why is Helicopter not being summoned amidst atleast 5 well known TMO members being summoned?
2. Why is Trak killing TMO members and not FE members?
3. How does Helicopter have agro on Trak and not Juggs? Magic wizard single pulling?
4. Are you aware that this continues well after Helicopter dies? His death is in the FRAPs as well...

[Autotune]

trak was agro from your fail attepmt. no other way to spin it once he passes that corner he is agro at poop hill.

It wasnt about a gamble. We ALL got hit by the AE, and agro of Trak was dropped on us. Attempting to log off amidst Traks AE is suicide.


All of this is actually wrong.

Getting hit with a dragon's AE will not put you on his aggro list.

If you're saying that because you ate an AE that your raid got trained, you're all idiots and it's no wonder you all suck at training in VP.

I can't believe no one else has even mentioned this, bunch of retards "raiding"...

[Tanthallas]

We make decisions based on our best judgement, with no favoritism for any play character connections, so you will have to trust in our opinions for the health of the server

Nice sig.

No bias, right?

[Tanthallas]

All of this is actually wrong.

Getting hit with a dragon's AE will not put you on his aggro list.

If you're saying that because you ate an AE that your raid got trained, you're all idiots and it's no wonder you all suck at training in VP.

I can't believe no one else has even mentioned this, bunch of retards "raiding"...

Its not about being on the agro list, its about being able to camp out or not. From the FRAPs I have posted, it is clear that FE is not on Traks agro list but still getting hit by the AE.

The problem is that having half the raid dead, and half log into ticks of Trak's AE, is not really a viable solution here pal. That is assuming most even get out, because that AE will definitely cancel your attempt to camp.

[Tiggles]

200th post

got my DKP

[Autotune]

Its not about being on the agro list, its about being able to camp out or not. From the FRAPs I have posted, it is clear that FE is not on Traks agro list but still getting hit by the AE.

The problem is that having half the raid dead, and half log into ticks of Trak's AE, is not really a viable solution here pal. That is assuming most even get out, because that AE will definitely cancel your attempt to camp.

really, if it's not about being on the aggro list, why do you and your members keep saying it is?

All you had to do is back out of los (blocking aes) and cleanse your raid, instead (from what I've heard) you rushed it. That is just bad play calling.

[Ele]

1. Why is Helicopter not being summoned amidst atleast 5 well known TMO members being summoned?
2. Why is Trak killing TMO members and not FE members?
3. How does Helicopter have agro on Trak and not Juggs? Magic wizard single pulling?
4. Are you aware that this continues well after Helicopter dies? His death is in the FRAPs as well...

1. It is the juggs summoning, not Trakanon. (At least until 1:14 in your fraps, Trak summons Helicopter, when Trak has already gone back into lair and socials).
2. Then what are you complaining about?
3. Line of Sight? In my fraps, Trak clearly casts darkness on Helicopter after going into seek mode, then bugs out on pathing because Helicopter continued to stand on the back wall, which we all know causes crazy pathing to occur.
4. Trak picks up LoS on Helicopter, meaning his aggro list was clear, once he gets back up into lair his aggro list includes TMO fighting in lair (including those with low hp) and socials with juggs.

Please go back and learn how this game works.

[cyryllis]

amazing, i get a batphone saying log in now we have FTE, ends up being a poor engage, and even after getting hit by AE I was easily able to back out of LOS, invis and move to a safe spot and camp.

then while trak is still engaged with TMO fte, FE goes in and fail engages- you realize if you had actually killed him the loot would be ours right? We were actually rooting for you to kill him for a bit for free loot =)

[Metallikus]

1. It is the juggs summoning, not Trakanon. (At least until 1:14 in your fraps, Trak summons Helicopter, when Trak has already gone back into lair and socials).
2. Then what are you complaining about?
3. Line of Sight? In my fraps, Trak clearly casts darkness on Helicopter after going into seek mode, then bugs out on pathing because Helicopter continued to stand on the back wall, which we all know causes crazy pathing to occur.
4. Trak picks up LoS on Helicopter, meaning his aggro list was clear, once he gets back up into lair his aggro list includes TMO fighting in lair (including those with low hp) and socials with juggs.

Please go back and learn how this game works.

So, TMO's argument is that Helicopter single pulled trakanon out of the lair and bugged him out on pathing ...ALL THE WHILE...TMO has their raid force engaged in trakanons liar on protector and jugs but they somehow did not have agro on trakanon.

Is this the new spin?

[Metallikus]

amazing, i get a batphone saying log in now we have FTE, ends up being a poor engage, and even after getting hit by AE I was easily able to back out of LOS, invis and move to a safe spot and camp.

then while trak is still engaged with TMO fte, FE goes in and fail engages- you realize if you had actually killed him the loot would be ours right? We were actually rooting for you to kill him for a bit for free loot =)

But then a TMO' stance that they did have FTE on trakanon , but soemhow it is helicopter training the ledge?

[cyryllis]

...

failed engage, your guild gets aggro while we have FTE and trains yourselves

[Autotune]

So, TMO's argument is that Helicopter single pulled trakanon out of the lair and bugged him out on pathing ...ALL THE WHILE...TMO has their raid force engaged in trakanons liar on protector and jugs but they somehow did not have agro on trakanon.

Is this the new spin?

it's easy to not have aggro on trak when someone else already does.

[Tanthallas]

TMOs position at this point is anything to deny the fact that Trak was engaged by them and held on the FE raid.

Stealin keeps rambling on about how unskillful we are for not being able to combat their train, as if it were VP.

Eqmaze is trying to talk about how unbiased everything is so we should just leave staff alone, while the claim being left alone clearly supports his bias.

Ele seems to think its possible to get aggro on trak and not the juggs, ignoring the fact that the only way this is possible is for TMO to have engaged first and started this cluster fuck.

Atleast cyryllis is being 100% honest.

[AenarieFenninRo]

But then a TMO' stance that they did have FTE on trakanon , but soemhow it is helicopter training the ledge?

You do realize that anyone who has agro and dies drops off the list for track to hunt down right?

I.e. if Helicopter and 18 tmo had agro, and some TMO people die, eventually trak is going to start searching for Helicopter... you get that right? From your statement above, it doesn't seem like you do.

[Autotune]

TMOs position at this point is anything to deny the fact that Trak was engaged by them and held on the FE raid.

Stealin keeps rambling on about how unskillful we are for not being able to combat their train, as if it were VP.

Eqmaze is trying to talk about how unbiased everything is so we should just leave staff alone, while the claim being left alone clearly supports his bias.

Ele seems to think its possible to get aggro on trak and not the juggs, ignoring the fact that the only way this is possible is for TMO to have engaged first and started this cluster fuck.

Atleast cyryllis is being 100% honest.

Tell me how it is a train?

Apparently, trak never went to your raid force, your force went to trak. Trak was never aggrod on your raid force, your raid force aggro'd trak.

[Halfelfbard]

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr tmo, Lol Fe, Lol something....train choo choo, chugga Chugga Toot Toot Gauge out the conductors eye's u lost ur legs nubs still flappin, unless you can get on ur hands and walk its 5 miles to the next depot!

[Enygma]

FE logic:

He clearly had duct tape on his keys forcing him to go "back and to his left" as a result he should be unsuspended because he was AT his keyboard WHILE the duct tabe was engaged.

...lol.

[baramur]

amazing, i get a batphone saying log in now we have FTE, ends up being a poor engage, and even after getting hit by AE I was easily able to back out of LOS, invis and move to a safe spot and camp.

then while trak is still engaged with TMO fte, FE goes in and fail engages- you realize if you had actually killed him the loot would be ours right? We were actually rooting for you to kill him for a bit for free loot =)

So tmo trained Fe raid force by engaging trak with a poor engage.

[Tanthallas]

Also, in regards to Helicopter...

Helicopter dies because all the juggs run at him. They do this after killing and summoning quite a few TMO. They have no problem getting to him. The reason he dies is because they get him low HP and Prot summons him.

Helicopter was on the aggro list of the juggs the whole time. Why was he not being summoned instead of TMO if he was bugging them out? Why is Trak killing TMO if he is chasing Helicopter? In order for Helicopter to be bugging him out, he would have to be first on the hate list of either...which is clearly not the case.

The only way this could be the case is if TMO is continously getting low hp agro and pinging him back. Seeing as Prot summons him the second he hits low hp, this is highly doubtful. Even if this is the case, however, how on earth are you trying to throw all possible blame on someone from another guild that is on the agro list of a mob that YOUR GUILD ENGAGED who is attempting to avoid YOUR ENGAGE by getting distance from a mob that was not his guilds engage?

I would think that if you were trying to engage trak, your warriors would hold agro on Trak...wouldnt you?

[cyryllis]

heres a good analogy:

guys go to rob a bank, get the money but get shot dead out in the parking lot, and as this is happening there is a separate group of people standing by who are like...shit there is money to be had...so they grab the bags and hop in their car. Police who shot the first group go chasing them down. They drive at 20 miles an hour and pull in to their property and run into the house. Cops bust in and shoot the whole family and their dog. Distant relatives blame other bank robbers for the deaths of their loved ones.

[baramur]

Trak was.standing on top poop hill and ae'd our entire raid force because tmo engaged and subsequently brought trak to poop hill.

[Autotune]

The only reason it looks like Trak is outside his lair is to cast a blind on helicopter btw, so you can blame him for "training" you.

[Autotune]

Trak was.standing on top poop hill and ae'd our entire raid force because tmo engaged and subsequently brought trak to poop hill.

I watched both fraps and neither time was he on poop hill.

[baramur]

Bad analogy. How bout bank robbers hide money in innocent persons car, cops find money and shoot innocent family. Cops then give money back to bank robbers. Innocent family blaims bank robbers because they started the whole fiasco.

[AenarieFenninRo]

From the evidence gathered so far

Have yet to see any evidence of how trak got OUT of the lair, i've seen a couple shots of him under the mountain, both in the wall and on edge of path, but havent yet seen evidence of how he came out of the lair.

[Tanthallas]

heres a good analogy:

guys go to rob a bank, get the money but get shot dead out in the parking lot, and as this is happening there is a separate group of people standing by who are like...shit there is money to be had...so they grab the bags and hop in their car. Police who shot the first group go chasing them down. They drive at 20 miles an hour and pull in to their property and run into the house. Cops bust in and shoot the whole family and their dog. Distant relatives blame other bank robbers for the deaths of their loved ones.

This is a poor analogy because in the case of Trakanon today it was impossible for FE to log out both having been hit by Trak AE and being subject to getting hit by Trak AE again.

I guess impossible is the wrong word...suicidal for their ability to engage Trak is better.

This is all moot, however...why FE was hit and subject to Trak AE in the first place is the problem here, not what FE does about it once it happens. If this logic is applied to every instance where a mob is trained onto another individual or group of people, the person at fault would always be the person or people trained and their inability to deal with it.

[baramur]

I watched both fraps and neither time was he on poop hill.

His wing was. But fine he was on the side of poop hill and his ae hit everyone on poop hill

[cyryllis]

ae did not hit everyone on hill

[baramur]

Cyrano trained trak a 2ndd time after the first time let's not leave that out. Was not intentional but it did happen, and no ill will toward cyrano mistakes happen.

[baramur]

Your right it didn't hit anyone who logged in after it went off

[Autotune]

This is a poor analogy because in the case of Trakanon today it was impossible for FE to log out both having been hit by Trak AE and being subject to getting hit by Trak AE again.

I guess impossible is the wrong word...suicidal for their ability to engage Trak is better.

This is all moot, however...why FE was hit and subject to Trak AE in the first place is the problem here, not what FE does about it once it happens. If this logic is applied to every instance where a mob is trained onto another individual or group of people, the person at fault would always be the person or people trained and their inability to deal with it.

His wing was. But fine he was on the side of poop hill and his ae hit everyone on poop hill

FE stood in los of trakanon and got hit with AEs. If you're looking at the dragon you already knew you were going to eat AEs.

You didn't get trained.

You made bad calls.

1) after logging in and seeing where Trak is, you allowed more people to log in and stay in LOS of trakanon.

2) you made a call to engage a dragon that you had already taken AE/s from without knowing if you had fte or not (or maybe you did?)

This would be the equivalent of me going to pull talendor or sev and you beating me to the punch and I take an AE when it happens. There is no way I could say that you trained me because I took an AE.

[Enygma]

Also, in regards to Helicopter...

Helicopter dies because all the juggs run at him. They do this after killing and summoning quite a few TMO. They have no problem getting to him. The reason he dies is because they get him low HP and Prot summons him.

Helicopter was on the aggro list of the juggs the whole time. Why was he not being summoned instead of TMO if he was bugging them out? Why is Trak killing TMO if he is chasing Helicopter? In order for Helicopter to be bugging him out, he would have to be first on the hate list of either...which is clearly not the case.

The only way this could be the case is if TMO is continously getting low hp agro and pinging him back. Seeing as Prot summons him the second he hits low hp, this is highly doubtful. Even if this is the case, however, how on earth are you trying to throw all possible blame on someone from another guild that is on the agro list of a mob that YOUR GUILD ENGAGED who is attempting to avoid YOUR ENGAGE by getting distance from a mob that was not his guilds engage?

I would think that if you were trying to engage trak, your warriors would hold agro on Trak...wouldnt you?

bro - helicopter suspended... you're confused.

[Autotune]

Cyrano trained trak a 2ndd time after the first time let's not leave that out. Was not intentional but it did happen, and no ill will toward cyrano mistakes happen.

I can't comment on that, only on the two fraps that were posted (one claiming it a train).

[Tanthallas]

Have yet to see any evidence of how trak got OUT of the lair, i've seen a couple shots of him under the mountain, both in the wall and on edge of path, but havent yet seen evidence of how he came out of the lair.

TMO has people over the place; in the lair, on the ledge, across the water, and in between. The whole FE raid force is on the ledge save for Helicopter who is FRAPsing on the other side of the water...this one FE person not on the ledge, according to TMO, is the reason for all of this chaos...not the clusterfuck of TMO running to and fro.

Strangely, like I said, TMO doesnt seem to think it is necessary to hold agro on Trak to engage him. Is TMO now claiming that Helicopter managed to pull agro from Trak off of them and run him out of lair after TMO had ran in, because I would love to see the GMs encounter logs in this case to see just how much hate Heli actually dumped on Trak...or how little TMO did.

TMO ran in to be in before FE and didnt even attempt to kill Trak. Not only this, they went in with less than three groups. This may have been a stall tactic, but it went horribly wrong. If it was a legitmate engage that went wrong, that would be one thing. But to have another guild eat shit because your stall turned into a train, well you mineswell equate that with having another guild eat shit because you trained them to stall.

[Tanthallas]

FE stood in los of trakanon and got hit with AEs. If you're looking at the dragon you already knew you were going to eat AEs.

You didn't get trained.

You made bad calls.

1) after logging in and seeing where Trak is, you allowed more people to log in and stay in LOS of trakanon.

2) you made a call to engage a dragon that you had already taken AE/s from without knowing if you had fte or not (or maybe you did?)

This would be the equivalent of me going to pull talendor or sev and you beating me to the punch and I take an AE when it happens. There is no way I could say that you trained me because I took an AE.

This is not equivalent at all. Going out to consciously engage a dragon with a puller or pull team and being hit by the AE because someone else beat you to it is quite different than you, for example, pulling talendor or sev on a raidforce and then claiming that they should have seen it coming and moved...which is exactly what your claim is.

[baramur]

So its ok to train a group logging in on your engage, because it is their fault they logged into trak being there? I thought you were responsible for your pulls, if trak was non aggrieved wandering back from a monk running him out of lair and he aggrod onto a raid force sitting on bill, this still constitutes a train. Tmo engageand kill trak its different the minute tmo wipes or calls of engage and the engage resulted in negative impact to Fe raid force it is raid interference.

[Tanthallas]

In hindsight certain calls could have definitely been made better, I do not disagree with that at all Stealin.

I am sure everyone or every group/raid who is trained could have made better calls as well in hindsight to save more people or turn the situation in their favor. That is a completely seperate issue than the fact that they were trained, however.

Your logic applies if training isnt against the rules. Then all that matters is how to recover and/or turn the situation in your favor. As long as training is deemed against the rules, however, it remains a seperate issue from the tactics of train recovery and avoidance.

[baramur]

I say gms just make it illegal to be across bridge unless you are pulling, engaging trak, or doing fr. This will end guilds training eachother.

[Servellious]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9f0TRG0gU4

GG

P99's premier raiding guild hahahhahahahha fucking scrubs.

[baramur]

I say gms just make it illegal to be across bridge unless you are pulling, engaging trak, or doing fr. This will end guilds training eachother.

Doing cr sorry stupid auto fix.

[Enygma]

The whole FE raid force is on the ledge save for Helicopter who is FRAPsing on the other side of the water....

^ Still confused... Helicopter was suspended for autofire - aka duct taping his keyboard.

Clearly all of FE had duct tape on their keyboards and didn't train TMO because they were just... BAD at EQ.

[Autotune]

This is not equivalent at all. Going out to consciously engage a dragon with a puller or pull team and being hit by the AE because someone else beat you to it is quite different than you, for example, pulling talendor or sev on a raidforce and then claiming that they should have seen it coming and moved...which is exactly what your claim is.

From the fraps that you and elethia both posted, your own member was to blame for those AEs.

While Trak was AEing he was trying to cast a blind on Helicopter.

YOUR OWN MEMBER "TRAINED" YOU.

And yes, If your raid force is standing out in the open looking at a raid target and gets hit by AEs, it is 100% your fault.

[baramur]

If the only way you would ever aggrod is another guild engages and wipes, the other guild trained you. It's simple as that, tmo engage cause trak to move into los and aggro, which he never would have done if not engaged, its the very definition of training.

[quido]

http://www.msu.edu/~oconne53/jeremytoon.jpg

[baramur]

Furthermore it is not Fe job to have to move camp so tmo failure doesn't kill them, it is tmo job to ensure they don't train when they fail

[Tanthallas]

From the fraps that you and and elethia both posted, your own member was to blame for those AEs.

While Trak was AEing he was trying to cast a blind on Helicopter.

YOUR OWN MEMBER "TRAINED" YOU.

And yes, If your raid force is standing out in the open looking at a raid target and gets hit by AEs, it is 100% your fault.

Did TMO just run in to hug Trakanon then? You really expect people who have fought Trakanon many times to believe that Helicopter TOOK AGRO from your tanks when you were attempting to KILL trakanon? Like I said, GM encounter logs please.

And no, if your raid force is out of LoS of a target and that target is brought onto your raidforce only to start AEing it, it is not 100% your fault.

Fact of the matter is that Helicopter logged into Trak already being brought upon us. GMs encounter log would show this, because this is the earliest FRAPs I have been able to find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9f0TRG0gU4

[Autotune]

Did TMO just run in to hug Trakanon then? You really expect people who have fought Trakanon many times to believe that Helicopter TOOK AGRO from your tanks when you were attempting to KILL trakanon? Like I said, GM encounter logs please.

And no, if your raid force is out of LoS of a target and that target is brought onto your raidforce only to start AEing it, it is not 100% your fault.

Fact of the matter is that Helicopter logged into Trak already being brought upon us. GMs encounter log would show this, because this is the earliest FRAPs I have been able to find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9f0TRG0gU4

Look argue back and forth all you want.

This is probably the worst "raiding" I've ever seen, from both sides.

[Tanthallas]

Look argue back and forth all you want.

This is probably the worst "raiding" I've ever seen, from both sides.

People log on and expect to have a race for numbers, perhaps an FTE stall at most. People are not logging on expecting Trak AEing them on the ledge. There may have been situational errors on the part of FE, but the worst 'raiding' aspect of it clearly falls onto the group who decides to engage Trak and somehow fails to engage him...

When this happened to FE on the Trak after the increased agro range patch, FE did not need to be told that they had a bad engage; we admitted that our engage was wrong. TMO seems not able to accept the fact that they fucked up, instead comically trying to blame a sole wizard for disrupting their entire Trak engage and not their own inability or intentions.

[Autotune]

People log on and expect to have a race for numbers, perhaps an FTE stall at most. People are not logging on expecting Trak AEing them on the ledge. There may have been situational errors on the part of FE, but the worst 'raiding' aspect of it clearly falls onto the group who decides to engage Trak and somehow fails to engage him...

When this happened to FE on the Trak after the increased agro range patch, FE did not need to be told that they had a bad engage; we admitted that our engage was wrong. TMO seems not able to accept the fact that they fucked up, instead comically trying to blame a sole wizard for disrupting their entire Trak engage and not their own inability or intentions.

I can't tell by any of these fraps who has aggro other than Heli (guessing he is the wizard).

At no time does trakanon appear to be dumped on anyone (the sign of being trained) nor does he appear to be intentionally dragged on top of your raid force (looks like he is just roaming around trying to get to a target or targets). This doesn't look like a train an any form to me.

Both fraps look like huge fuck ups to me, which is the reason for "raiding".

FYI, I remember being in TMO and logging into a Trak AEing us at that exact spot, we logged out (called over vent immediately). So it really boggles my mind as to why an entire raid force just stands and dies to AEs ( I think I only seen option in your guild chat calling for a camp out ).

Could there have been TMO on Trak aggro running him around down there, definitely possible. Do we see any of them on these fraps? nope. If you can point it out, I'll stfu, but you have to see how this looks and how you're painting it towards others.

My standpoint is: This isn't a train, it's a clusterfuck of retarded proportions and both parties are completely responsible.

[Eccezan]

People log on and expect to have a race for numbers, perhaps an FTE stall at most. People are not logging on expecting Trak AEing them on the ledge. There may have been situational errors on the part of FE, but the worst 'raiding' aspect of it clearly falls onto the group who decides to engage Trak and somehow fails to engage him...

When this happened to FE on the Trak after the increased agro range patch, FE did not need to be told that they had a bad engage; we admitted that our engage was wrong. TMO seems not able to accept the fact that they fucked up, instead comically trying to blame a sole wizard for disrupting their entire Trak engage and not their own inability or intentions.

Hey sloan, you are posting a lot of bullshit for the guild leader of a guild that wiped on a clean attempt with 41 people after all these fraps occured. Why doesn't someone post that in all your links? QQ more.

[Alarti0001]

Hey sloan, you are posting a lot of bullshit for the guild leader of a guild that wiped on a clean attempt with 41 people after all these fraps occured. Why doesn't someone post that in all your links? QQ more.

Selective posting!

[baramur]

I will agree both parties tucked up. But you have to admit if tmo had jot engaged then there would be no issue. Did they intentionally move trak so it would agri or ae Fe, no I don't think they did. The problem isnt intention, its reality. Tmo engage early to kill, stall for more numbers, whatever, its a good call to engage quick, but engage goes bad, trak leaves lairz Fe gets caught in it. Simple as that. All the other shit following that was idiocracy on both guilds to an extent and raiding on p99 its worst. Pathetic guilds can not work together and compromise with each other instead if having a shit show, petition, gm event at every raid. At some point when does it become more logical to share pussy instead of everyone trying to insert dicks into same one.

[baramur]

Selective posting!

Ya we rushed and wiped 41 people maybe 35 at trak and some just rezzedz it happens. Curious though is would tmo lost another trak, just like last trak had they not engaged and trained. Is rather wipe on qn honest attekpt then train a guild on a dishonest one. But its ok train was prolly caused by an alt.

[Godefroi]

Hey sloan, you are posting a lot of bullshit for the guild leader of a guild that wiped on a clean attempt with 41 people after all these fraps occured. Why doesn't someone post that in all your links? QQ more.

Hey my fat late 40s lonely mexican.

GG disabling the link =)

[Godefroi]

So this trakanon was a mess and you managed to get him ? Gratz, thats awesome.

Congratz on banking tooth I guess.

As usual we will get next one.

May the power of the EQ dork necklace be with you

[Eccezan]

Hey my fat late 40s lonely mexican.

GG disabling the link =)

Haha, late 40's lonely mexican?! awesome! Hey its my unemployed cheese eating frog! How much more on your epic Visceral? I know IRL pics aren't allowed, but you'll probably appreciate this one.

http://i.imgur.com/piYuukF.jpg

[Eccezan]

So this trakanon was a mess and you managed to get him ? Gratz, thats awesome.

Congratz on banking tooth I guess.

As usual we will get next one.

May the power of the EQ dork necklace be with you

Hey frog boy, Good luck on getting your epic before you quit out of desparation and loss (again).