new rules terrible

[heartbrand]

Not even going to bother going line by line but the new rules are terrible and do not reflect the reality on the ground nor the will of the players. Something like this should come from the bottom up aka from the players not top down from GM's who don't actually play here.

[Vladigan]

You will be taken more seriously if you give reasons/arguments for your dislike for the rules.

Also, anyone can just say that something is "not fair", "sucks", etc. Instead of complaining, try to offer some suggestions or alternatives to be considered.

This isn't Nazi Germany. I am pretty sure the people in charge of making decisions will listen to reasonable requests and logical ideas. Not to say they will do what you want, but learn how to debate instead of bitch and you will be surprised how much more effective your time can be!

Just my 2 cents on the subject matter....

[Nirgon]

It falls just short its intent. Please include grey areas.

[Amelinda]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It falls just short its intent. Please include grey areas.

LOL wait - you are calling for us to include gray areas in the rules???

your guildies have cried whenever there is a rule that has a gray area

[Hammertime]

training = pvp tactic

[Lazortag]

Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, ... is AGAINST the rules.

This is the part that I raise my eyebrows towards, since (if I'm reading it right) this includes rooting people mid-kite, or mez-pushing people into lava, or drowning people, or mez-pushing someone off of a tall building. Which, if I remember correctly, Amelinda was perfectly okay with not too long ago. So I'm guessing this is just written wrong?
(edited to be more clear)

[Nirgon]

So have a lot of other people.

Don't take my word for it though.

As far as crying, let me fuck you up with some truth and a reminder.

"Grey area" is introduced or exploit goes unpunished.

Our guild tolerates it for a few hours or maybe a week or two. Nothing happens, we're told by the other players to "deal with it" or "qq moar".

We take hold of said exploit or grey area and destroy what they "had going for them".

Then the real crying to the staff starts and unsurprisingly gets a result in their favor.

"Nagafen is being exploited" -> weeks of deafening silence.
Players wiped in PvP, strat stolen. GMs beat the shit out of Holocaust.

"CT rotation set off is legal deal with it" -> GMs agree.
Holocaust repeats step, new rule is created to benefit team originating the problem.

Hope this reality check was beneficial.

Ask me why I don't play here, I'm happy to go into further details regarding the above.

As far as grey areas? And the above post? Thanks for telling people what they already know, super helpful.

You should break these grey areas down. Or maybe you just like your job being harder than it has to be and people ripping on you. I don't know, its one of the two or both. It certainly doesn't help the server population, people notice.

Things were just fine with us stealing their exploits and turning them against them. Staff interaction has created a certain imbalance that is irreparable at this point. Exploited loots going unremoved for too long to create the illusion of legitimacy and used to farm dino in OOT / kill other raid targets to acquire gear etc.

Similar to how an old joke goes: What do you tell a server with two black eyes? Nothing, you already told it twice.

[oldfish]

Where are these new rules?

If the quote is correct, this is getting way too ridiculous

Intent to cause PVE death against the rules?

[heartbrand]

"Petition Rules
• GM's and guides are unpaid volunteers who put forth their time and effort to make your experience more enjoyable. They will be treated with the respect that they are deserving of or you may face disciplinary action."

Disagree, we the players have no voice in who the GM's and Guides are so why should those imposed upon us with no vote expect to be respected?

"Accountability:
Our server is a Guild vs. Guild server, and as such a Guild (or alliance of guilds) can be punished for the actions of its members. The basic message here is for guild leaders to keep a leash on some of the more colorful members. To clarify, If a member of Guild_A trains Guild_B, then the staff reserves the right to take disciplinary action not only against the player doing the training, but also to take identical actions against the highest ranking leader or officer (as determined by the staff) online at the time of the incident. So, if you're in the officer/leader role of your guild, we can and will hold you accountable for the conduct of your members. If you have a member training in such and such zone and you're online, don't be surprised if we suspend you as well in addition to him. You are responsible for your own guild members. Till Death Do You Part, For Better *or* For Worse. And disguising your officers as members won't work. We know who generally runs the show in each guild."

Terrible, dumb, retarded, etc. People should never be punished for the sins of others, this isn't the year 2000 B.C in Mesopotamia. This is a server that lends itself to zerg vs. zerg which inevitably means there are going to be some dumbasses, punish those who act not those who do not. Pretty simple.

"Causing XP Loss:
• The Staff strongly supports and encourages the use of PvP by guilds to enact their wishes throughout the world, but only PvP that is within the rule-set of this server. Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules. All players need to know that attacking a raid party while they are engaged on a raid mob is NOT against the rules, however, as soon as a player brings intentionally brings NPCs/Mobs into that PvP encounter they are breaking the rules, and can be banned for such actions."

Unenforceable, requires running Fraps 24/7, will result in 1% getting punished while 99% get away with it. Any rule which lends itself to such a result should not be a rule. Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming, learn how to invis / sidestep mobs, go out and proactively engage potential griefers before they can grief you and kill them, etc. etc.

"Training:
Intentionally causing experience death to a player, or utilizing NPCs to cause intentional damage or death to a player is against the rules. If you make a mistake, try and make it right. If you need Staff assistance to help make the situation right, let us know. Remember, taking advantage of a bad situation that you have caused on accident is just as bad as doing it on purpose in the first place."

Same thing not enforceable, should be legit tactic for example training out guilds that want to turtle at a zone line.

"Bind Rushing/Camping, Corpse Camping:
The staff reserves the right to step in if we feel that Bind Rushing, Bind Camping, or Corpse Camping has become or is becoming excessive."

That's why you can plug.

[Nirgon]

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