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#1
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You edited out the discussion in the parses you quoted from me. Original source can be found here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...406923&page=19 Starting with this line of posts: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=181 Quote:
This monk was level 60 with tunare fists and 15/20 offhand (Grandmasterr). Xeff was a level 60 velious raid geared sk. You then were all “Aha! You only did 80dps” based off the compiles despite being told why everyone’s was artificially low. 6 pages later I gave you samples of single target fights. The next line of posts/parses you quoted can be found on this page: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...406923&page=25 Quote:
Bear in mind this was all part of a 449 page thread where you were insisting shamans could compete with mages in a high dps, fast moving theoretical caster group of 4 that included 2 hasted quadding charm pets and a cleric … with either a mage or a shaman as the 4th.
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#2
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Why is this so difficult? Just because you say the numbers are "higher", it doesn't mean your pet is automatically doing 80 DPS on average. The average DPS of your pet on the break-away parses was 56, not including the pet DD. Assuming 6 procs per minute, that is 67 DPS. None of your data currently shows an average of 80-85 DPS from your pet, which is what you were suggesting earlier. Also remember the Rogue you were parsing was somewhere between level 49-52, so that isn't a fair comparison to Rogues. You are level 60. A level 49-52 Mage would also be doing lower damage.
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Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 09-05-2023 at 12:25 AM..
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#3
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What is most telling on that aggregate parse was how well the mage + pet combo did compared to the level 60 raid monk with tunare fist and ST fist. https://wiki.project1999.com/Fist_of_Nature https://wiki.project1999.com/Pricele...ium_Fist_Wraps That’s bleeding edge gear. Monk clocked in at 48dps. Water pet (unfocused) at 40dps. Mage added another 39dps (though a chunk of that is from water pet procs). DS wasn’t captured. I dunno man, a group geared mage netting 79 aggregate deflated dps vs a monk thusly geared netting a 48 aggregate deflated dps … … Im pretty sure that qualifies as “top tier group dps”.
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#4
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For the record I would never guild “main” a mage on p99 or waste dkp on one. It won’t make you a better mage in raids … and for group content the gear is unnecessary. Raid gear and the dkp needed to buy it is better spent on a tank/melee (main or alt).
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#5
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#6
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It's 55+ that they start to falter,and really only in a solo setting Mages are a great group class if their careful with their pet not breaking mezes. I have never seen my 60 water pet parse over 90+ DPS, maybe on very low lvl mobs that's possible | |||
#7
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Cleric - lol no Druid - lol no Shaman - mage does a lot more dps even when focusing exclusively on dps with dog pet out Wizard - lol no Necro - mage will consistently win out but by a much smaller margin than with summoned pet. With a charm pet? Same as enchanter below. Ench - winner winner chicken dinner if charming, hasting, and giving a torch. All of these other classes have abilities that make them globally more powerful, but in the singular role of dps (which is all the mage is meant to be) - they are stout. Really I just feel bad for wizards. Outside of raids with lures and bane nukes, they really only excel at quadding.
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#8
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As with most posts we should probably define what “top tier dps” means. Even a raw number is useless unless compared to players numbers on the same fight. A rogue on Dain is not the same as a rogue on some random blue in Seb. It’s highly dependent on…
* Level vs player or pet (advantage PC) * If the dps player has a good tank working with them (pet won’t pull aggro; repositioning for backstabs with a pet is slower) * Speed of engage and ability to track mob if pathing sucks (advantage pet) * Is it even viable to summon a pet at all? (Most raid advantages = PC) I’ve parsed a lot of focused water pets on silly fights. Vindi, Xenevorash, Brother Z/Q, Lhranc, Miragul. Assuming you pick up all the melee on your log (pets stand back further than most PC’s) outside 60+ stuff they can do solid damage. Most Vindi’s with they do 40-45dps which seems low until you scroll down to how many PC’s are being beat by the pet. Some weird high AC fights like Xene they can easily out damage players. The epic pet doesn’t backstab. This is a white damage that lands pretty hard even on 60+ targets. Even with 60 as the max melee hit (which can take half a dozen summons sometimes to get) vs 67 as a consistent summon on the epic neither will land spells on those tougher targets. Advantage Water, to about 10%. Even if spells do land you can’t ignore the extra 180 BS if positioning is possible or you don’t have a bad tank. I’ve beat more epic pets than I’ve lost to. You just have to show up early to get a good one and try a bit harder pointing it in the right direction. I’ve said it before, a proper mage pet on raid level stuff about on par with a generic level 60 knight or ranger. On lower level grind stuff (blues to the player) they are closer to casual geared monk or even rogue capabilities. Not talking Mryo dagger, primal, Abashi players. They hold up better than one would think being level 45 or whatever. Not to mention the mage having a great DS and 150dps on tap for when it’s needed. | ||
#9
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I’d take a mage in a group as my primary dps over any other class any day except maybe a necro or enc who is charming.
The mage toolkit is just perfectly suited for dps. They can also achieve these numbers with lower APM than any other class which I think is significant as I believe most people do have an APM bucket. When I think of people being lazy in groups, rogues usually come to mind. I’ve come across some that don’t even hit backstab every time. It takes a lot more effort to stay positioned and continuously backstab then a mage who can just send a pet in and drop occasional nukes/ds to put out big numbers. If you find the right solo camps I’ve also found killing stuff almost easier than any other class I’ve come across. A focused fire pet paired with mage nukes can take you to 55 ridiculously easy. It almost feels like cheating how easy it is to kill something. 55+ is a different level of difficulty that can also be done easily with a mage solo if you know where to go it just might not be quite as fast as mobs start to get a lot more difficult overall. There’s probably a lot of people who will tell you they suck because they’ve never played one or have only logged one in as a coth bot. And look up quad da mages if you want to see some cool shit they’ve done in raids. TLDR - mages kick ass | ||
#10
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this is the new dsm thread i see, Mages are for quading and cothing, i dont even drops rods anymore because they arent needed except maybe aow and vyemm. Quadding is really fun and has been fun since ~2018 when it started coming around. Grouping as a mage is not that great and i prefer almost all my chars vs mage. get your exp in fear during CT. Hope that helps. DSM monks arent that great dps hope that helps too.
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