How much do Clerics need CHA?

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also the cleric is better than the ENC at every single job the enc does in a duo except the DPS. Cleric breaks the rooms, cleric pacifies (for mana free), cleric does most of the CC except on a crit resist (where the enc is able to free cast without interruptions or building aggro).

You play with bad clerics, and you're not a good enc. That doesn't mean you can't change.

Absolute brainlet take.

Why would you send the guy with rez in to break the room, knowing that a crit resist means death? Versus sending in the Enchanter (who already has max CHA and is thus less likely to crit resist), who can then be rezzed if he does have a crit resist?

Any more high IQ tips?

Also loling at Cleric pacifying with a clickie, as if the Enchanter is hurting for mana with C2/ToT and a Cleric CHing his pet. I don't think the issue is bad Clerics, apparently you've been playing with braindead Enchanters.

Clerics definitely have underrated CC, but with a competent Enchanter partner they won't need to use any of it except throwing out stuns on charm breaks and maybe an occasional root. Otherwise you're just there to, you know, HEAL, the one thing the Enchanter can't do for himself.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Absolute brainlet take.

Why would you send the guy with rez in to break the room, knowing that a crit resist means death? Versus sending in the Enchanter (who already has max CHA and is thus less likely to crit resist), who can then be rezzed if he does have a crit resist?

Any more high IQ tips?

Cleric can DA on a crit resist and let the enc aoe mez / clean up the mess. With the rampant use of discord comms this can be done rather seamlessly these days.

You ever had a crit resist splitting a room on an enc at the exact moment your charm pet breaks? Talk about butt pucker.

Not saying you're wrong but a competent cleric can easily split and pull for an enchanter while the pet is finishing off say...the last 2 mobs in camp (or along the crawl path). Keep the enchanter focused on pet breaks / handling camp and leapfrog ahead is pretty OP if the cleric is willing to do it.

If a cleric is simply CHing a pet every so often and buffing / topping off the enc, they should have basically full mana anyway. Obviously if they're struggling with mana usage its best to just have them sit and do their main role...everyone plays at different levels of efficiency.

More than 1 way to skin a cat.

[cutelittlecow]

Not that my opinion really matters much, but I resonate a lot with Dont/Solist on the majority of what some consider to be "hot" takes.

I do realize that it was also brought up that CC, breaking rooms, etc., should moreso fall on an Enchanter. During the Kunark leveling race I ended up playing with a friend of mine at the time that rolled a Gnome Enchanter, and in that situation, I had more CHA on my Cleric as a Human when we had to do corpse recoveries as I started with as many starting points into CHA as I could have. This decision actually saved us a lot of headache down the line as I had a much greater success when it came to successfully not critical resisting my lulls as compared to my partner.

Obviously everyone's playstyle is different and utilizing your entire toolkit isn't always necessary, but to neglect that it's there is honestly just pretty bad.

All that being said, this thread was about Halflings. It might hurt not having a bunch of CHA, but sneak in it's own right is a very valuable tool in some situations, especially so at end game. You trade being exceptional at one thing for having something that no one else has, which is honestly very fair. Overall, you'll be able to get plenty of CHA from gear in the long run, and for what you can't get, there are always buffs and potions.

-- Bayleigh

[Solist]

Originally Posted by cutelittlecow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not that my opinion really matters much, but I resonate a lot with Dont/Solist on the majority of what some consider to be "hot" takes.

I do realize that it was also brought up that CC, breaking rooms, etc., should moreso fall on an Enchanter. During the Kunark leveling race I ended up playing with a friend of mine at the time that rolled a Gnome Enchanter, and in that situation, I had more CHA on my Cleric as a Human when we had to do corpse recoveries as I started with as many starting points into CHA as I could have. This decision actually saved us a lot of headache down the line as I had a much greater success when it came to successfully not critical resisting my lulls as compared to my partner.

Obviously everyone's playstyle is different and utilizing your entire toolkit isn't always necessary, but to neglect that it's there is honestly just pretty bad.

All that being said, this thread was about Halflings. It might hurt not having a bunch of CHA, but sneak in it's own right is a very valuable tool in some situations, especially so at end game. You trade being exceptional at one thing for having something that no one else has, which is honestly very fair. Overall, you'll be able to get plenty of CHA from gear in the long run, and for what you can't get, there are always buffs and potions.

-- Bayleigh

The change in attitude towards cleric charisma is almost exclusively attributed to yourself, Falamin, Liia and myself on both servers. Was a massive amount of fun trying to chase you guys down on the way to 50 there and arguably the best p99 has ever been for me.

I think the most prudent point I agree with you is about using your toolkit. Any player using all their available tools creatively will run circles around someone in the best 'meta' not using their abilities. Suppose that's broader advice though and is true for many classes.

But circling back after re-reading some of this thread I'll double down. Max cha cleric is the best group cleric, and duo/trio cleric, and by far the best solo cleric possible. It is the worst raid cleric. Aside from duo with a warrior doing Xenovorash I can't see a reason to have max mana really. Having a class that can DA do room breaks, and leave an enchanter or other group members able to freecast while mobs do zero damage is very efficient. Healing is by far the least efficient thing a cleric can ever do of the common group roles.

Reducing mob DPS is not some crazy concept. Thats why you single pull with a monk/dru/ranger/bard, thats why you mez stuff with a bard/enc/nec, thats why you root/snare/whatever. It's all to reduce DPS. Doing so on a cleric is no different and frees up the actual dps classes to do their job in some situations while you manage singles. When you eliminate any instance of two mobs doing dps at once your healing load goes down significantly which sounds astonishingly simple but is somehow abstract in game for people playing clerics?

Then you become a raid cleric and outside of a ch neck/neck recharge/reaper doing your own chain for a full coth cycle you are the most boring class to play.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having a class that can DA do room breaks, and leave an enchanter or other group members able to freecast while mobs do zero damage is very efficient. Healing is by far the least efficient thing a cleric can ever do of the common group roles.

1) Given that a Cleric has double DAs to fall back on during crit lull fails, why exactly is max CHA so important to begin with? Are you really going to say you're pumping CHA just for CRs?

2) If Cleric healing is inefficient, whose healing is efficient? Who should heal the group instead?

ITT: good players massively overthinking the Cleric class You're there to heal, bros. You have other tools in the toolbox to be sure. And Cleric lulls are very legit and powerful. But the class isn't built around them. I mean, I suppose you can make an argument for it if you have a very niche playstyle built around dungeon crawling in duos/trios. But I think every other grouping/raiding Cleric is better off maxing their mana pool, and carrying around a bag of +CHA gear (which is plentiful and cheap) for the rare occasions they need it.

Groups and raids in EQ have probably wiped about 1000x more often because a Cleric ran OOM than because the Cleric puller got a crit lull resist at an inopportune moment.

"Group LF Cleric to pull for us instead of healing," said no one ever.

[Zuranthium]

Your arguments are idiotic. Cleric lull is not NEEDED when there's already an Enchanter there to do it (who should have higher/max Charisma). Cleric lull is not mana free either; using a relatively long cast clicky means you're not meditating in that time, and that item isn't something every Cleric has. Lull is not needed all the time to begin with; it's frequently just a minor time-saving measure over using Root.

Cleric mana factually needs to be spent fully on healing in situations where the heals are the limiting factor in being able to pull more (a typical occurrence). Cleric having more max mana helps to prevent deaths, and you are hurting yourself (and your guild/group) for important fights if you don't have the best mana pool. Not having enough mana is a game-losing outcome in the most important scenarios, whereas being able to Lull a bit better is a merely a nice bonus in the less important scenarios of the game where a Cleric is the only person around with that ability.

And stop acting like using Lull is some kind of very complex thing. It's not. Cleric in this game is nowhere close to the complexity of what it is in Guild Wars 1. Sitting around using your slow cast heals at easily recognizable times is the main function of Clerics. In combat situations where you might actually have to watch the field more and use other abilities, the Charisma stat rarely has anything to do with it whatsoever.

[Gustoo]

Zur is right. Even tho cleric has comparable CC in most areas, no one has comparable heals so the main thing you gotta be able to do is heal.

Maybe if you has two clerics one might be a CC cleric with low mana recovery.

Human clickies not worth much. Sneak and hide? Maybe.

High elf probably best choice if you’re a min max guy. The best thing about handling and human inno is decent faction at evil places and good places alike. Halfling with de mask is not KoS in any evil city except cab

Can’t go wrong. A normal human is a good choice too if the inno stuff doesn’t do much for you and the limp muscles on the high elf hold you back.

Cleric race choice is the toughest race choice in the game Imo

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cleric race choice is the toughest race choice in the game Imo

Just don't be an Erudite! (unless you like the Fashion/Roleplay)

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cleric race choice is the toughest race choice in the game Imo

An argument can be made too that by picking a more "off the beaten path" cleric race/deity, you're helping the server by being one of the few able to provide that imbue.

Innoruuk, Brell and Tunare priests are a dime a dozen, but good luck to anyone who somehow needs a Bertoxxulous or even Erollisi cleric, for instance.

[Solist]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An argument can be made too that by picking a more "off the beaten path" cleric race/deity, you're helping the server by being one of the few able to provide that imbue.

Innoruuk, Brell and Tunare priests are a dime a dozen, but good luck to anyone who somehow needs a Bertoxxulous or even Erollisi cleric, for instance.

That's a huge oversight on my part, and super valuable to some people. I really should smith up the bertox cleric just to be able to do that stuff. It's already high-ish from the sanctum earring quest. Great observation!