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  #111  
Old 06-08-2023, 11:05 AM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is online now
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Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Except they arenít equal, unless youíre only talking about raids in which case who cares about knight dps on raids.

Final pet/pets will be 25+ dps edge alone, not even including other dots, multiple taps, etc. if there was a wep you knew would do 25 more dps then Tuna sword people would bust a nut over it. Thereís a reason why people say SK are better dps. Itís because they are. No myth or exaggeration about it.
Sorry you don't got raid
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  #112  
Old 06-08-2023, 11:24 AM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Except they arenít equal, unless youíre only talking about raids in which case who cares about knight dps on raids.

Final pet/pets will be 25+ dps edge alone, not even including other dots, multiple taps, etc. if there was a wep you knew would do 25 more dps then Tuna sword people would bust a nut over it. Thereís a reason why people say SK are better dps. Itís because they are. No myth or exaggeration about it.
Exactly. Everybody agrees that Paladins and SKs do the same damage if all you are doing is autoattacking with the same weapon. Otherwise, SKs will do more DPS due to Pet + Banshee Aura + Offensive Spells.

Paladins and SKs are typically soloing/grouping more than they are raiding. They are not DPS classes in raids, and raids simply don't need that many knights. You are probably swapping to another class.

That isn't to say DPS is the only consideration for how well a class operates. Paladins are a great class too. But OP's question is specific to DPS, and SKs will deal more DPS in most scenarios.
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  #113  
Old 06-08-2023, 11:26 AM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
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Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I solo'd eejag on my paladin for a monk alt and it only took loh but my gear is pretty good. I havnt solo'd chardok but I've solo'd all of crypt including the emp and just running between hiero and duke spawn is trivial and decent depending on cloak/bracer rng. I've also solo crawled to the various frog camps for fun but it's not worth it from a farming/pp perspective. Chardok names would be pretty trivial to kill as a paladin but keeping up faction would be a hassle I imagine. Struggling to think of much else that is cool, I solo'd reavers and killed the shm epic mob in com for the sk in shield but again fairly trivial and no real pp in it. Never tried a cliff golem but I imagine a soulfire would make it trivial as well.
Very cool.

The Chardok faction hits are pretty small. It probably would get tedious if you did a lot of it but you can get a good taste of the zone from maxing faction once.
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  #114  
Old 06-08-2023, 12:20 PM
Atmas Atmas is offline
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This thread is super off the rails now but interesting to hear people's perspectives.

Tempted to make a video of soloing seb entrance down to NG but obviously being level 60 makes a big difference. Plus I've got about BiS gear and weapons that make a huge difference. The truth is I can pacify a lot of stuff in seb before the more MR mobs. Just even having ring 10 is huge.

I feel like a lot of people have no clue about knights in raids. I don't hardcore raid really anymore and I can't exactly speak for SKs but Paladin always felt super useful on raids. I'd tank trash mobs and snap agro made things so much faster. Plenty of times I'd have to pick up dragons when warriors died or be ramp tank. I did a lot of healing. Smart rogues/monks know if you can get a Paly to heal you that's more dps than getting torpor. I also snapped agro on pets, helping enchanters a lot (loss of pet health bars sucked). Finally, knight dps isn't great but it can be decent and present when an extra person of a different class doesn't add much of anything. I remember on a Tunare beating some 55-56 rogues.

As far as soloing goes, without using consumables I can do black reavers, cliff golems, stuff in chardok like KM, BM, DM, OS etc. In seb I can do NG and some other camps, like crypt, I've never tried Emp but I know Pint's done it. Some things like the cliff golem I would proc avatar on a summoned eye before starting the fight.

Also without consumables I've done soloed Lord Rak`Ashiir, Neh`Ashiir, Coercer Q`ioul. I did A3 but never tried A4 because it was always camped. I know Keerarae did A4. I pretty much soloed 4 PoM flowers (not MR). Though these ones can get pretty dicey and there can be a lot of setup. Obviously with soulfire I can do some bigger stuff. One of the last things I really want is a Willsapper to try soloing a few more things. Interestingly there are some things a Paladin has an easier time with because a mob might be super resistant and their mana goes towards healing.

Up to you guys how you want to classify Regal Band of Bathezid it's rechargable for free. I don't NEED it for anything in this list but I use it and it helps a lot having a 35 damage shield because it stacks with Ring 10.
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  #115  
Old 06-08-2023, 12:44 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I feel like a lot of people have no clue about knights in raids. I don't hardcore raid really anymore and I can't exactly speak for SKs but Paladin always felt super useful on raids. I'd tank trash mobs and snap agro made things so much faster. Plenty of times I'd have to pick up dragons when warriors died or be ramp tank. I did a lot of healing. Smart rogues/monks know if you can get a Paly to heal you that's more dps than getting torpor. I also snapped agro on pets, helping enchanters a lot (loss of pet health bars sucked). Finally, knight dps isn't great but it can be decent and present when an extra person of a different class doesn't add much of anything. I remember on a Tunare beating some 55-56 rogues.
The thing about Knights in raids is simply that most big guilds have enough Warriors to cover both main tanking and off tanking. So typically a Paladin is used for SoulFire/Divine Strength, and SKs are used for some specific pulling scenarios in specific zones, like VP. I am not saying Paladins/SKs can't be useful in raids as offtanks. I am not saying Knights are not used as offtanks in raids. I am simply saying the P99 meta doesn't support Knights very well. Generally speaking if you need more healing, log a cleric. If you need more DPS, log a rogue. If you need FD, log a Monk/Necro. If you need tanks, log a Warrior.

When a Paladin/SK is offtanking, the raid is not concerned about their DPS. You can do zero DPS and have zero complaints, as long as you kept the trash off the squishies. That is why raid DPS isn't very relevant to this discussion. Obviously all DPS helps kill a mob, but when you are healing other people, casting spells to get agro off other players, etc., you aren't doing DPS. That is fine, because your job is not to DPS.

I am not saying Paladins do poor DPS either. My SK does 50-60 DPS with https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge self buffed with just auto attack and procs. Paladins and SKs do the same auto attack damage, so both Paladins and SKs can probably push closer to 70+ DPS with Tunare/Vulak weapon and raid buffs. That's honestly not bad.

DPS is not the only factor that goes in to how well a class works. I don't think anybody is saying Paladins suck because they have lower DPS thank SKs. Paladins like yourself and others have done some very impressive solo stuff, and we aren't trying to downplay those capabilities.
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  #116  
Old 06-08-2023, 12:47 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is online now
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The thing about Knights in raids is simply that most big guilds have enough Warriors to cover both main tanking and off tanking. So typically a Paladin is used for SoulFire/Divine Strength, and SKs are used for some specific pulling scenarios in specific zones, like VP. I am not saying Paladins/SKs can't be useful in raids as offtanks. I am not saying Knights are not used as offtanks in raids. I am simply saying the P99 meta doesn't support Knights very well. Generally speaking if you need more healing, log a cleric. If you need more DPS, log a rogue. If you need FD, log a Monk/Necro. If you need tanks, log a Warrior.

When a Paladin/SK is offtanking, the raid is not concerned about their DPS. You can do zero DPS and have zero complaints, as long as you kept the trash off the squishies. That is why raid DPS isn't very relevant to this discussion. Obviously all DPS helps kill a mob, but when you are healing other people, casting spells to get agro off other players, etc., you aren't doing DPS. That is fine, because your job is not to DPS.

I am not saying Paladins do poor DPS either. My SK does 50-60 DPS with https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge self buffed with just auto attack and procs. Paladins and SKs do the same auto attack damage, so both Paladins and SKs can probably push closer to 70+ DPS with Tunare/Vulak weapon and raid buffs. That's honestly not bad.

DPS is not the only factor that goes in to how well a class works. I don't think anybody is saying Paladins suck because they have lower DPS thank SKs. Paladins like yourself and others have done some very impressive solo stuff, and we aren't trying to downplay those capabilities.
Riot Def uses knight tanks for trash clearing not wars
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  #117  
Old 06-08-2023, 12:52 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Riot Def uses knight tanks for trash clearing not wars
Vanquish did too. Again, I am not saying Knights are never used. It's just that more people tend to make Warrior alts that actually get geared and leveled up to 60.

Typically the Knights that are offtanking are people who main Knights in raids. Those people are awesome, I have nothing against them.

But they are the minority, and if they are not actively raiding then most people won't be able to log in as a fully geared Knight to take their place. It's more likely that someone has a Paladin as a SoulFire bot (probably not very tanky), or a Warrior alt who is tanky.
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  #118  
Old 06-09-2023, 04:26 PM
AgKnight AgKnight is offline
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Regarding the SK/pal dps, the SK have a slight edge due to having more offense skill (but lower piercing skill to compensate) also their spells are generally more offensive and there's potentially a pet, but it's a marginal edge in raid with most boss being really hard to hit with spell and having ae rendering pets not really useable... The edge is bigger in exp group, but the paladin bring to the table some healing power. The classes are definitely not having the same ups/down but they are rather similar in term of tankiness and dps...
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  #119  
Old 06-09-2023, 04:39 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is online now
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Originally Posted by AgKnight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
rather similar in term of tankiness and dps...
Yup exactly
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  #120  
Old 06-09-2023, 04:49 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by AgKnight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Regarding the SK/pal dps, the SK have a slight edge due to having more offense skill (but lower piercing skill to compensate) also their spells are generally more offensive and there's potentially a pet, but it's a marginal edge in raid with most boss being really hard to hit with spell and having ae rendering pets not really useable... The edge is bigger in exp group, but the paladin bring to the table some healing power. The classes are definitely not having the same ups/down but they are rather similar in term of tankiness and dps...
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Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yup exactly
With my pet alone I am dealing 20% more DPS over a Paladin with equivalent gear. That isn't a trivial amount, and OPs question is regarding DPS.
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