New Angry Goblin Agreement

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Knuckle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think a signficant part of the classic everquest population involved GM's in camp disputes to roll, so not sure what part of that population feels nostalgia around /random with 50 dudes over 3 years to complete one quest.

I agree! Look, we have an unclassic situation on P99 (a server firmly committed to being as classic as possible). There wasn't "50 dudes" waiting on live.

Hell, I did the entire quest on live (post-Velious though; virtually no one did it in Velious, because it came out at the end of that era ... and by the time most people were doing it, it wasn't at all top-end gear). I never ran into a single other player! It's been ages, but I think DS was just sitting up when I got to her. To me that's classic.

The fundamental problem is that the box has been locked in Velious for years after Luclin should have come out. We can only make the best ("most classic") solution out of that bad situation. That won't be instances or any other increase in the number of SWCs released ... which leaves us with random rolls.

Originally Posted by Knuckle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some people are luckier than others. Don't think it feels great waiting 3-4 years for a middling upgrade because of dice rolls.

I feel you ... but it's like being bummed because you're not winning the lottery: the only solution is to keep buying tickets or change your life goals. There is no better/more classic solution to this problem ... except ...

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a fresh server and/or custom classic-themed Blue content (which would give everyone sitting at the rolls something better to do). That is how you solve the rolling problem on P99.

[zelld52]

i think people need to get over these "BiS" items that require dozens of hours of poopsocking. its not gonna make or break your toon. chances are youll be fine without it.

Increased chances of youll be fine without it if youre a warmbody on a raid. you could wear banded or cloth and be fine in those situations

[Knuckle]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think people need to get over these "BiS" items that require dozens of hours of poopsocking. its not gonna make or break your toon. chances are youll be fine without it.

Increased chances of youll be fine without it if youre a warmbody on a raid. you could wear banded or cloth and be fine in those situations

I think arguing that people want the rule changed because they want "bis" is irrelevant. It could be for any reason at all. But I would say when you remove player agency completely to a dice roll. It would make all players happier if each time they showed up their odds increased via weighted roll or whatever the urn program is.

To reiterate, I stopped rolling for this over a year ago. I am not mad, just annoyed. Annoyed that it's just a huge waste of time to pursue it. If I really wanted spirit wracked cords I'd math out how to make 250k or whatever and MQ it to my monk. It's just not worth it to me as an item.

In EQ you camp items, you raid for items, but your time invested yields something. With Angry goblin you could roll for years with 0% increased probability of winning. It removes the EQ aspect from EQ, is what I am saying.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Knuckle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In EQ you camp items, you raid for items, but your time invested yields something.

Except, it doesn't. You don't sit at a camp, getting points for sitting there, until you accrue enough points to get the item you want. Maybe in some modern EQ expansion, but not in the classic era.

What do you do? Keep taking random chances that have no connection to any previous chance, until you get what you want. Even if you raid and accrue DKP outside the game, inside the game you still need a random chance for the item you want to drop.

That's how the game we all love works: no points that improve your odds when you take lots of random chances, just equally random chances until you "win".

[Castle2.0]

/list was better. Only people who really wanted it got it. #classic

[Estrang87]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except, it doesn't. You don't sit at a camp, getting points for sitting there, until you accrue enough points to get the item you want. Maybe in some modern EQ expansion, but not in the classic era.

What do you do? Keep taking random chances that have no connection to any previous chance, until you get what you want. Even if you raid and accrue DKP outside the game, inside the game you still need a random chance for the item you want to drop.

That's how the game we all love works: no points that improve your odds when you take lots of random chances, just equally random chances until you "win".

You increase your odds of getting items by physically killing mobs and getting named mobs to pop. You also, to a degree, have agency over how quickly this occurs as your character grows more powerful. Additionally, at best, you only compete against yoursef for a fixed % chance of the rare drop or at worst 5 other players all working towards said item.


Physical engagement leads to greater odds. Nothing influences /random (that i am aware of). The mob is on a fixed timer, and you must compete with dozens of players with no way to increase your odds. I dont really know why there would need to be an argument of saying we need to keep it that way to preserve an everquest experience, and why it needs to be more unpleasant than necessary. People that make more rolls or can get some kind of camping currency like the urn system makes perfect sense and i dont know why resisting the idea of putting more time in results in greater odds could possibly be a bad thing.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Estrang87 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Additionally, at best, you only compete against yoursef for a fixed % chance of the rare drop or at worst 5 other players all working towards said item.

Yup, there's only five people on the whole server that you have to compete with for White Dragonscale Boots, Sal`Varae`s Robe of Darkness, Essence of Nature, etc. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just five.

Hell, even Scout roll has a lot more than five people at it, and it's not (effectively) Luclin-era loot like the SWC (ie. better than 99.9% of the Velious era stuff).

Look, for most players the random roll truly has nothing to do with them not getting an SWC! If SWC was a drop, the camp would locked down 24/7, and 95+% of the people who are now rolling for it would have virtually no chance of ever seeing it. And if it was /list (1.0), it would look like the list for Holgresh Elder Beads or the Manastone (ie. forget about sleeping for four days).

Originally Posted by Estrang87 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

can get some kind of camping currency like the urn system makes perfect sense

You are absolutely, 100% correct. With raiding, we have DKP to make it so that when the random roll comes up in your favor, your past participation in raids can assure that you get the item.

If only the game already had such a point system built-in. A system where you could go do other camps that other people want, and in return they would do the random rolls you don't want to do. Only it's a little tricky to find just one item that someone would trade for doing all those random rolls ... maybe you could acquire a bunch of items, and then trade them to other player for points, and then collect enough points to trade them to a single player for an SWC?

If only EQ had such a system already ...

[Estrang87]

Raids are influenced by participation over time. I was referring to solo/group content since we have participation points that give us the ability to outbid our competition via personal agency over time. In solo/group content you are competing against yourself or at most 5 other players. All of the above examples increase your odds by participating, with raiding being the most agency. The scout roll is the same thing as angry goblin. It would equally benefit from increased odds/bids per roll participated. Its not as frustrating because its a shorter bottle neck since you can lottery 2x per day, thats only difference. Ring war is same thing(ring 8 example). Annoying, but 1x per day. Would benefit from increased odds the longer youve been rolling for it.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except, it doesn't. You don't sit at a camp, getting points for sitting there, until you accrue enough points to get the item you want. Maybe in some modern EQ expansion, but not in the classic era.

What do you do? Keep taking random chances that have no connection to any previous chance, until you get what you want. Even if you raid and accrue DKP outside the game, inside the game you still need a random chance for the item you want to drop.

That's how the game we all love works: no points that improve your odds when you take lots of random chances, just equally random chances until you "win".

Agreed

[Knuckle]

I disagree. There is a 100% chance that a raid mob drops raid loot. The rarity can vary obviously, but it has a loot table. In a DKP environment, you increase your odds of success over time when that item drops, there is no such system in the blind lottery that the goblin is at. 1 day, 5 years. You have no impact on probability. Is there a possibility that a specific item never drops off a raid mob, ever? Yes, but that's being pedantic. There is a chance I can't login to play EQ because my internet connection drops.

If you are trying to say the 16% odds of winning a roll in a group for a named mobs item are the same as the angry goblin you are smoking crack. Is the angry goblin agreement better than no agreement? Sure, but it still sucks, and has room for improvement. Having people get +5 or +10 to a roll each time they attend more realistically simulates the time spent camping an item. And no, I don't know anyone who cant get a FBSS camping frenzy for 3 years straight, because the odds are weighted against repeat failure, which is why they have a PERCENT CHANCE drop rate greater than 0%.

What I am saying is the odds at angry goblin are shit, and there is no reason you can't have a system where the more time you spend, the closer you are to achieving your goal.