Spell LoS and MR resist checks circa 2001-2002.

[lethdar]

As much fun as it is to see macken and werhmacht argue back and forth on the issue I'm bored enough make a post about it and link some supporting posts during the era to back up my views rather than "I'M 100% RIGHT AND MY MEMORY IS FLAWLESS" that's been going on.

With regard to magic resist, sadly wehrmacht is more right than wrong when it comes to this issue. I'm sure root landed a ton for you macken, however you never really pvped high lvl characters with resist gear until 2003+, which is well after the resist altering patch which occurred in September of 2002. When this patch went in all of the resist rates for spell were altered and you no longer were safe with just 100-150 mr as a pure melee. Quotes from the era:

"150 is most certainly not the immunity threshold. 150 MR gets you about 87% resistance to snares according to my last batch of tests. I got snared today by an even con when I had 174 MR. Snare is an absolute showstopper. Once you get snared it is game over really. It is extremely hard for a rogue to get 174 MR with no buffs, and even then you will get snared more often than 1/10 by mana free snare items that abound for druids and rangers. " - 9-9-2002.

Spell resist change and posts about it complaining about its effects in pvp 9-7-2002. http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=7879

Spell resist rates prior to this patch on sullon zek, from a high lvl enchanter whom i knew on the neutral team.
"For some reason if anyone has over 70 magic resist, magic based spells are completly useless against them but fire/ cold/ disease/ poison ones seems to have a good chance of doing max damage even at 150+ resist.
" - 1-9-2002 (before the resist patch).
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...8&postcount=55

On the issue of line of sight for nukes, macken is correct here and wehrmacht is wrong. Prior to 2003 once you had someones target you could nuke them through walls without much issue, infact i remember the first time this happened to my monk in HHK when a necro snuck in and was pretty fucked at lvl 20 with no way to retaliate / find them.

Quote from 1-9-2002 regarding LoS
"In what way is not being able to exploit someone through a wall unbalancing? Every time you use a wall or corner to hide while you cast on a melee who can't find you , you are exploiting. Its cheap and I see no reason not to nerf this exploitive behavior.

In what way is not being able to target someone with your pet and cast on them without ever comming into sight unbalancing? "
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...3848#post93848

and the rest of this thread goes on with pretty accurate discussion regarding LoS, resists, the prevalence of golem wands against casters in pvp.

Now just because it was like this does it mean it should be emulated 100% on this server? Lolno. PVP shouldn't involve prenerf pumice and golem wands up the wazoo against casters who can't retaliate at all when someone has 70mr. Melee shouldn't be skillless macktrucks immune to all forms of cc waiting to truckfuck any fools playing casters once they get a few pieces of resist gear. Casters shouldn't be able to nuke the shit out of you from behind every wall in a dungeon while you spin around trying to figure out where they are.

Anyway, lololo you're both wrong, post count ++

[Terpuntine]

Lethdar for president

[Macken]

I started on SZ about first week of Aug 2001. I was pvping against the big dawgs against the best gear neuts could farm by Oct 01.

Nice try though =)

I remember everything bro. I had tash which would make me notice it less than wormoct, but i was also rocking gmr and i still got rooted with 200+ as Velious was ending. Don't confuse what i'm saying. I think everyone remembers not getting rooted so much at the magic 100#. I Don't want int casters having to slog through a server that's overly slanted against them because i was silent on the boards leading up to launch, making it a melee server like all garage boxes eventually became. Being an int caster on all 3 boxes was lonely. I cried some nights. So I only protest the most extreme posts where someone claims they never got rooted EVER with 100. I mezzed people over and over until root stuck long enough for a nuke, I know how often root landed with 200+ mr on the elite neuts after tash. Everyday i would experience root checks. I could not only give you %'s on how often it landed, but give you specific %'s on specific players. And wormoct thinks he has a better handle on it? I could explain all this to him, but it's more fun not to. I could also explain another way to reach the same conclusion is to realize that no spell in eq is 100% resistable. I only make a big deal of it so i can say i did all i could later when server comes out.

I enjoyed your research and i am impressed. I don't think we are really disagreeing about the root issue and resists, but if we are I should probably point out now that you would be calling someone's stories "supporting posts" while alternatively insinuating my stories are not supporting. . I should add, i would have whole heartedly supported your enchanter friend's take. I might even have exaggerated more than him and said 50.

I was looking back the other day and checking out some old stats and i saw i averaged about 6 kills a day on my toons for maybe 3 years. Thats approximately 6500 kills. I was fully immersed. I played across all era's I'm not sure why anyone would think I wouldn't remember just about everything that has to do with SZ. I'm probably this forums resident authority on SZ by virtue of my play time alone. Im the SZ Sensei. If that pedigree is not good enough, surely the fact that i was points leader when leaderboard went down would suffice.

I was there before, during and long after all those changes. I remember them all and being upset with double los check until they changed it back weeks later. I remember being happier with things landing easier for enchanters after resist changes.

In short, I factually won SZ. I know that makes everyone mad, but facts are facts, and haters gonna hate. But that doesn't change the fact that my opinions are special and wrapped in gold leaf by virtue of this fact. My word is unassailable and the law, my power secure.

Players like wormoct have no idea. Those talking about they played a server just "like" SZ are like krill to the big fish, yet they know not. I could go on and on and i have in this post.

tldr: Macken owns

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"150 is most certainly not the immunity threshold. 150 MR gets you about 87% resistance to snares according to my last batch of tests

This post was 9-9-2002 during Luclin, 1 month before PoP came out. These results are after the resist system was already changed so before this change, your chance to resist was even higher so of course I'm right.

If that same test was done pre-resist changes, it would be 98% immunity to root since the August 2004 patch notes say that's what the resist cap was:

http://www.necrotalk.com/showthread.php?t=2295

Here's a post from 11-02-01 in Lethdar's second link that really describes how easy it was to resist root: "I was doing well pet kiting a level 60 paladin yesterday with my 56 necro pet that had MR buff (so it resisted or broke most roots)"

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the issue of line of sight for nukes, macken is correct here and wehrmacht is wrong. Prior to 2003 once you had someones target you could nuke them through walls without much issue, infact i remember the first time this happened to my monk in HHK when a necro snuck in and was pretty fucked at lvl 20 with no way to retaliate / find them.

It depends what month pre-luclin you're talking about actually because from my research, line of sight was changed twice pre-luclin. There's a post on TZVZ forums of Xebeken even admitting that a double line of sight check existed on SZ pre-luclin for a while but he claimed it was "a mistake" and they didn't mean to do it.

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Melee shouldn't be skillless macktrucks immune to all forms of cc waiting to truckfuck any fools playing casters once they get a few pieces of resist gear.

As I've already said 5000 times before, that argument about crowd control spells somehow magically fixing casters fails completely due to SK's, paladins, rangers, and bards all getting CC spells themselves. So all you're really doing is making hybrids more powerful and pure melee worse while casters kind of stay right where they were.

Pure melee that aren't in high end raid gear already sucked so you're just totally destroying the game balance this way by making hybrids the overwhelming 1st choice for PvP.

Casters are supposed to be glass cannons. If you think casters need to be improved, all you have to do is alter their direct damage spell resists or alter the 66% of normal damage PvP nerf.

[Bombfist]

<wehrmacht> hell if I know,

[Crazycloud]

I always said it and everyone always argued with me..... Getting 70-80 + MR back in the days resisted a ton of shit snares/roots/stuns but of course it landed but when it did man you had 12 min snare on you with it overriding sow and you were fucked!!!



Macken.. you also was in highkeep 24/7. You were pvping a shit load of noobs constantly. I was always getting called to come get you in highkeep. The only reason you ever landed any spells on me was cause of tash but i do remember you zone plugging alot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. I have also killed you when i was green to you. Not trying to fuck with you but yeah you had 200 mr but if you're trying to say shit landed on you alot thats completely wrong. With my 100 MR i was barely getting any shit on my ranger.


I played a ranger back in the days and it was hard as FUCK i would know how i survived so long. Having 80 + mr saved me, but nukes landed on me about all the time dots too. I also remember it hard to snare/root pets (epic pet) but after i pelled it i always landed it. So i'm guessing they always buffed it with MR/GMR

[Dojii]

Originally Posted by Crazycloud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I always said it and everyone always argued with me..... Getting 70-80 + MR back in the days resisted a ton of shit snares/roots/stuns but of course it landed but when it did man you had 12 min snare on you with it overriding sow and you were fucked!!!

100 MR rule was a golden rule in early days... anybody that doesn't agree should be thrust into outer darkness where there is weeping, and wailing and tons of noobs.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Dojii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

100 MR rule was a golden rule in early days... anybody that doesn't agree should be thrust into outer darkness where there is weeping, and wailing and tons of noobs.

lol @ people that actually played EQ making macken look stupid

[Macken]

Sorry CC, you got 1 ks on me and that was me vs you and your entire guild in a dungeon that i was forced into protecting over 1st annual fabled. I think it was 1 vs 12 when you got the kill shot out of that many people.

If that is your claim to fame, then i understand. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But somehow, I feel im actually talking to CC lite and not even real CC. So you might not even have a ks on macken at all.

Dojii you are only confusing wehrmacht into thinking he is anything but a fly on Macken's fuzzy wolf nuts. Don't encourage that delusional bag of noob sauce. You don't want me to start grouping you and wormoct together. It gets embarassing.

And of course everything i say is right and golden true. I am THE SZ authority. Whatever i say is Law, by virtue of the fact i won SZ. SZ Sensei bombing 3's from way out bros. Get on my level.

[Crazycloud]

1) i'm not talking about fable times. But I did kill you by myself in guk and i'm not even going to brag about it... enchanters were seriously gimped during PoP times and no reason why i would bring that up.
2) I have killed you in highkeep/highpass (not during shitty PoP times).
3) If you claim i never killed you because its not on cattoe's scoreboard then i'll laugh.
4) I will always be the only real CC [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].