Rogue race and stats

[Endonde]

Originally Posted by BarackObooma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My two cents why Barbarians are better than Dwarves imo, especially leveling.

My Barbarian rogue twink had 255 strength with a fungi on unbuffed at level 18. Likely cannot do that with any other race. (300+ backstabs at 29)

Barbarians have 13 more starting strength and 5 more stamina than Dwarves. That means if a Barb and Dwarf had the same gear that gets a Dwarf to 255 str, the Barb can swap out both of their rings for MR rings and have +28 MR vs. the Dwarves extra 5.

Barbarians have slam which is extremely useful against casters. I was able to solo Unrest basement 30-40 due to this. The hags are nasty otherwise. If you're soloing you're not backstabbing anyway (except for extra melee hit, Slam can save your life).

Very popular bracers leveling are Heroes bracers, +10 strength for 150pp. Barbarians can wear, Dwarves cannot.

None of those reasons outweigh personal look preferences or if you have a hard on for barrel rolls. Otherwise, min/max, Barbarian is always #1.

If you are twinking your character out then it hardly matters honestly. Yea barbarians might be moderately more powerful with more STR early levels, but any advantage you are gaining from racial stats will be miniscule in comparison to the power gained by good weapons, a fungi tunic, and a solid haste item. All of this also means you will likely be holding agro a lot of the time and won't really get to backstab that much while leveling.

If you plan to do end game content on a rogue starting STR becomes almost entirely irrelevant because STR is incredibly easy to cap as a rogue, which is why many people will advise you not to put all your points in it when starting out. STA is the harder stat to cap, but you're only gaining 4hp per 1 Sta at level 60 which isn't significant enough for me to advise starting a specific race just for some extra Sta.

I highly advise people pick the race they think looks coolest when starting a rogue because a rogues power comes from gear not from starting stats. We do get illusion masks though, so that offers a bit more choice.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by BarackObooma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Otherwise, min/max, Barbarian is always #1.

Barbarian has small convenience of bonus strength while leveling. This completely disappears when geared and buffed at 60.

Barb is not min/max.

Dorf MR is better.

[BarackObooma]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Barbarian has small convenience of bonus strength while leveling. This completely disappears when geared and buffed at 60.

Barb is not min/max.

Dorf MR is better.

I explained that because of starting off with 13 more strength, a Barbarian with identical gear to a Dwarf can swap out 13 strength for 28 MR. How do you figure 5 MR is ever better than 28?

[Samoht]

You're telling me that as a barb, you have to unequip STR to get MR?

As a dorf, I get 255 str and 5 bonus MR without changing any gear.

I'll take my setup over yours any day of the week.

[BarackObooma]

I'm not saying you don't great gear, my argument is that it makes no difference what YOUR gear is.

If your Dwarf has exactly 255 str and his bonus +5 MR, my Barbarian with the exact same gear as yours will have 268 str. He has the option to swap out those +13 extra strength for other stats. Including two +14 MR rings (or a ring 7-10) for example. Your 5 MR "advantage" has become a -23 MR disadvantage.

In all cases, the Barbarian's stats will be superior to yours. You'll also never know the joy of slamming a mob that's trying to complete heal.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by BarackObooma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

my Barbarian with the exact same gear as yours will have 268 str.

No you don't. Stats cap at 255. Anything over the cap is wasted.

Originally Posted by BarackObooma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He has the option to swap out those +13 extra strength for other stats. Including two +14 MR rings (or a ring 7-10) for example. Your 5 MR "advantage" has become a -23 MR disadvantage.

These numbers are imaginary. I can switch rings and still have 255 STR. Dorf starting stats aren't as bad as you're making them out to be. I also don't have to swap as many slots when well geared because I already have a free 5 MR that means I don't need as much resist gear to get to 200 MR unbuffed.

[greenspectre]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No you don't. Stats cap at 255. Anything over the cap is wasted.



These numbers are imaginary. I can switch rings and still have 255 STR. Dorf starting stats aren't as bad as you're making them out to be. I also don't have to swap as many slots when well geared because I already have a free 5 MR that means I don't need as much resist gear to get to 200 MR unbuffed.

Stats capping at 255 was understood in his example. The 268 STR is understood to be capped excess, which he went on to explain can then be spared towards MR gear. I think his point is that whether a dwarf is at exactly 255 STR or not, the difference in STR allows a Barbarian to use more MR gear. After reading everything here I'd still say Dwarf is the better choice overall, but if gear is a concern I can see the case for Barb.

[Keebz]

Gnome's wall vision and perma shrink make it a strong contender if you're a raider.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gnome's wall vision and perma shrink make it a strong contender if you're a raider.

Yeah. This.

5 MR will never make or break a raid. The dwarf argument is dumb.

If you're going to be participating in any aspect of raids outside of "get behind mob and backstab", wallhack is amazing.

TL : DR - gnome is best for raiding, anything else just go for aesthetic (or Barb).

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gnome's wall vision and perma shrink make it a strong contender if you're a raider.

Any rogue can accomplish this with a halfling mask.