Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[bcbrown]

A 96 second kill means you can use Enstill instead of Paralyzing Earth. 40 mana savings upfront, and maybe reduce your 15 mana cost of root breaks to 10 mana.

30hp/tick regen on pet means 480hp regen in 96 seconds. 10DPS is 960, so pet is taking 480 damage/fight. This means that as long as you take at least 16 ticks of recovery time, the pet can always be fighting with no interventions. We can remove the extra 100 mana cost for Plague.

I don't think your proc math is right. You're only going to get one swing in per JBB cast. Delay - second conversion is 10, right, so a 47 delay weapon should have one swing every 4.7 seconds? That means you get roughly half as many procs as expected?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A 96 second kill means you can use Enstill instead of Paralyzing Earth. 40 mana savings upfront, and maybe reduce your 15 mana cost of root breaks to 10 mana.

30hp/tick regen on pet means 480hp regen in 96 seconds. 10DPS is 960, so pet is taking 480 damage/fight. This means that as long as you take at least 16 ticks of recovery time, the pet can always be fighting with no interventions. We can remove the extra 100 mana cost for Plague.

I don't think your proc math is right. You're only going to get one swing in per JBB cast. Delay - second conversion is 10, right, so a 47 delay weapon should have one swing every 4.7 seconds? That means you get roughly half as many procs as expected?

You wouldn't want to use Enstill because it cuts too close to the kill time. If your pet happens to do less DPS from RnG, or you get a spell resist, you will be forced to cast a second Enstill anyway, and 2x enstill's costs 120 mana total. If you need to root a second mob off to the side with enstill, you will also need to cast it again.

Good call on the pet regen. Taking 480 damage per fight means they will be out of a fight 1/4 times instead of 1/3. This is because the pet dies after taking 480 damage 4x times. You will need to remove it from combat periodically even with the regen to prevent it from dying. You wouldn't have your pet in combat at like 10% life for fear of an unlucky double attack. You would do something like 75 mana instead of 100 mana to account for this. It certainly isn't zero.

For proc rates, you are swinging inbetween JBB casts, which is 8 seconds. You are getting half swings, this is true. But a Shaman can buff their DEX. An Ogre Shaman with Mortal Deftness (level 58) would have 130 dex base, assuming no other gear. It would be like 0.75 procs per fight, so you are correct that would be a bit lower.

Thanks for the corrections. It would give like 25 extra mana to the Iksar and maybe 20 less mana to the Ogre/Barbarian. Not enough to swing the final result in any meaningful way. The sheer amount of extra RnG the Root/Rotting Shaman has to deal with ends up costing them more mana and time in the long run compared to the JBB Shaman's simpler playstyle.

[bcbrown]

If root wears off, so what? Other scenario is face tanking anyway.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If root wears off, so what? Other scenario is face tanking anyway.

Indeed, but that means you are taking damage instead. Taking 80 damage from the mob in the last 8 seconds of the fight is 80 HP, which is 40 mana, the difference from paralzying earth. Or 60 mana from a second Enstill if the fight needs to last longer. I am not saying Enstill would never work, but just looking at the possible scenarios shows that it doesn't end up helping as much as you think.

[Troxx]

It really doesn’t matter if the mob has 4500hp or 7000hp. In fact, the more hp the mob has you actually get more efficient as it opens up the disease line of dots.

I’m not going to bother with a point by point rebuttal. I already did the napkin math for you once. If you’re confused - read it again. It you have a problem with the numbers or think the math was off - let me know and we can discuss.

Let the pet tank. Give it regen. If you don’t, you’re leaving 45hp/tick on the table and it’s getting wasted. Capitalize on 2 pools of hp both with high regen. Turn regen into mana. Profit.

JBB is less efficient after yard trash under the level of ravishing drolvargs green out. Mob more than doubles and mob damage output rises sharply. 55 pet was the ultimate turning point and by then you have regrowth (a shaman’s most efficient heal in the game).

Ps: indirectly, slow is the most efficient shaman heal

With regards to root: I used the lowest level one. It costs like 30 mana and lasts for a minute. Mob doesn’t have to stay permanently rooted. Pet will build aggro and usually holds if it breaks after a minute. If root breaks early, it’s a cheap recast - and it casts fast.

Root it again and take a step back. It’s not hard.


GIVE THE PET REGROWTH AND IT REGENS 45 a tick

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It really doesn’t matter if the mob has 4500hp or 7000hp. In fact, the more hp the mob has you actually get more efficient as it opens up the disease line of dots.

I’m not going to bother with a point by point rebuttal. I already did the napkin math for you once. If you’re confused - read it again. It you have a problem with the numbers or think the math was off - let me know and we can discuss.

Let the pet tank. Give it regen. If you don’t, you’re leaving 45hp/tick on the table and it’s getting wasted. Capitalize on 2 pools of hp both with high regen. Turn regen into mana. Profit.

JBB is less efficient after yard trash under the level of ravishing drolvargs green out. Mob more than doubles and mob damage output rises sharply. 55 pet was the ultimate turning point and by then you have regrowth (a shaman’s most efficient heal in the game).

Ps: indirectly, slow is the most efficient shaman heal

With regards to root: I used the lowest level one. It costs like 30 mana and lasts for a minute. Mob doesn’t have to stay permanently rooted. Pet will build aggro and usually holds if it breaks after a minute. If root breaks early, it’s a cheap recast - and it casts fast.

Root it again and take a step back. It’s not hard.

I showed you the math. JBB is superior all the way to 60. You'll need to rebut what I've shown if you think it is wrong.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GIVE THE PET REGROWTH AND IT REGENS 45 a tick

It also adds 300 mana cost per 15 minutes, or 1200 mana spent per hour.

[Troxx]

Why do I even bother. Pearls before swine.

Oh well. I tried

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do I even bother. Pearls before swine.

Oh well. I tried

I appreciate your attempt! But you didn't deliver, and have yet to rebut my last post https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=420 . Bcbrown corrected a few minor errors (thanks!), but it isn't enough to change the outcome.

[bcbrown]

DSM, could you address Troxx's scenario on the previous page? I'd like to see that before I continue nitpicking your calculations.

[Troxx]

Fuck it. I said I wouldn’t but this is fun!

Let’s agree that:

-pet is about 17dps buffed at this level
-mob hp is 7000
-mob will do 10dps slowed
-the shaman doesn’t suck so it is slowed before “impact”
-both shamans will be slowing, so remove that from the equation
-both shamans have racial regen/fungi and regrowth

JBB shaman:
17 dps pet + 32.875 dps JBB (50dps)
Fight takes 140 seconds
Mob does 1400damage to the shaman
Shaman regenerated 920 health over 140 seconds
Fight ends with shaman at a net negative 480hp
It will take 72 seconds to regen the lost hp and will recover 240 mana during that time.

Total time (fight+ recovery) = 212 seconds

Dot shaman:
17 dps pet + 2x ebolts + 1 plague = 188 seconds for pet to do 3.2kdmg
30 mana root (Pe not needed)
Mob does 1880 damage to pet
Pet regenerated 1410hp
Shaman regenerated 1441 health
Shaman meditated back 28 ticks = 560 mana passively
Shaman turned that 1441 health back into 720 extra mana
Shaman spent 2 EB 1 plague and 1 roots mana = 950 mana
Shaman ends up with the same net health and 330 surplus mana while pet is down 470 health.

Total tome (fight+ recovery) = 188 seconds. You are ready to go and can use 175 of that 330 surplus mana to toss a chloroplast on your pet to have the pet “broken even” on health. Heck you still have 155 positive mana so why not use PE instead of root and you still have a whole ‘nother PE’s mana left over in surplus. Or consider it mana left over to compensate for the slow you had to cast or for fizzles/resists over time.

If you’re an ogre, it looks worse for both camps cause no racial regen

So …. 212 seconds for each kill if mad/sad/bad JBB clicking shaman if troll (worse of ogre) vs 188 seconds (worse if ogre)

Well blimey … JBB is slower by 12 fucking percent!

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