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Old 12-05-2023, 03:30 PM
7thGate 7thGate is offline
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Default Healing Aggro on Charmed Pets

I've been theorycrafting some charmed pet kills, and one of the things that I'm not sure about it how much aggro gets generated by healing pets. I've had a couple of anecdotal claims that healing pets essentially does not produce any heal aggro, from people that have done cleric+chanter leveling and reported never pulling aggro on the cleric. I'm not sure if that's just due to the pet aggro being much higher and transferring to the enchanter on charm break, or if its actually that there isn't healing aggro.

What I'm wondering is if I ran two dictate chains, offset by enough that there is always at least one pet attacking a target, would it be possible to keep them up with a cheal chain for an extended fight? Or would the heal aggro build up on the clerics from the pets wiping their aggro tables every 48 seconds on charm break, and get the healers all summoned and killed without some way to wipe aggro periodically?

Does anyone know what the behavior would likely be there? Eqemu code has it DB controlled and reduced by default, which means it could be basically anything here depending on what it got set to but would accrue aggro at about ~750 aggro/cheal if its not changed.
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Old 12-05-2023, 04:16 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
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Old 12-05-2023, 04:38 PM
7thGate 7thGate is offline
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Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
Been looking at the possibility of a double dictate chain to do a ~18-25 man avatar of war, as there are a few mobs in Kael that can both put out enough dps to kill in ~20-30 minutes and durable enough to survive with a 3 second cheal chain. But the two dictate targets would have a minimum of around 20 seconds of aggro generation at some times given the periodic charm breaks, while the clerics would keep accumulating heal aggro from running a chain without zoning or clearing somehow.
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Old 12-05-2023, 04:53 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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My understanding is that healing pets does generate aggro in the sense that you will get on the threat list of the mob being attacked by the charmed pet … but that it is very minimal. If the pet breaks the mob is gonna go for the chanter or any other player who took a hostile action long before the healer.

Others may know better… but I’m pretty sure that’s how it works.
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Old 12-05-2023, 05:15 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Been looking at the possibility of a double dictate chain to do a ~18-25 man avatar of war, as there are a few mobs in Kael that can both put out enough dps to kill in ~20-30 minutes and durable enough to survive with a 3 second cheal chain. But the two dictate targets would have a minimum of around 20 seconds of aggro generation at some times given the periodic charm breaks, while the clerics would keep accumulating heal aggro from running a chain without zoning or clearing somehow.
Interesting idea on paper but g'luck with that one. People have a hard enough time following a single chain...with constant swaps you're bound to have an oopsie-daisy.

Even if you could get a stable pull, CH will still only heal for 10k...so not sure where you're getting the 3 second chain from.

Not hating, I love fun shit like this...but gonna give this one a big fat nerp.

Soulfire nerf basically makes very low number AoW near impossible unless you've got a straight up BiS A-team across the board. Even with a reaper list and perfect execution its still tough.

Anyone know the lowest number kill on AoW post soulfire paladood only?
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Last edited by Toxigen; 12-05-2023 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 12-05-2023, 05:56 PM
7thGate 7thGate is offline
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Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Interesting idea on paper but g'luck with that one. People have a hard enough time following a single chain...with constant swaps you're bound to have an oopsie-daisy.

Even if you could get a stable pull, CH will still only heal for 10k...so not sure where you're getting the 3 second chain from.

Not hating, I love fun shit like this...but gonna give this one a big fat nerp.

Soulfire nerf basically makes very low number AoW near impossible unless you've got a straight up BiS A-team.
From the parses I've seen, AoW does about 1.5k dps vs. a defensive war, or about 2.5k dps vs. a non-defensive target. Burst is obviously higher, and will create situations where a warrior dies in 2 combat rounds with about a 1.5 second spacing periodically if not healed, which means the chain has to go at a stable 1 second to deal with variance, since any time you get two combat rounds in between heals you might die if you're unlucky.

Yetarr has 20k HP buffed, which is enough to give time to react when damage spikes come in. Generally with a 3 second chain I would expect them to usually drop to 60% or so before healing to full each heal, very rarely spiking down to 30-40% and going lower only when the chain is off a bit and there's a bunch of max combat rounds at once, where sky neck clicks would be needed.

For the lowest man, and assuming there's no significant heal aggro, I would probably run the entire healing off ~600 corpsed box of the voids + sky neck so there's no casting at all, just assist AoW and click when you see HP hit 50%. 4 to 5 clerics can sustain a chain on that, it would just be a bit of a pain to set up since you would need about 15-20 man-hours of corpsing time.
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Old 12-05-2023, 06:08 PM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
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I'm not sure if that's just due to the pet aggro being much higher and transferring to the enchanter on charm break, or if its actually that there isn't healing aggro.
Bard charm aggro essentially doesn't transfer on a charm break*. My bet is on enchanter charm aggro not transfering either.

So that puts cleric heal aggro below slow aggro when the mob comes for the enchanter.

But levelling you put in 1 ch every several xp mobs killed; I don't know how aggro would build up over a 20 minute chain.

I think in a draft situation you could get away with some memblurs if aggro builds slowly. It might cost you a 5% tick up on his hp when you do it though?

* When you kill a cliff golem you get a couple dozen charm breaks, and it would be very obvious if the pet didn't re-aggro the cg on its first hitround.
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Old 12-05-2023, 07:56 PM
enjchanter enjchanter is offline
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Imagine you do all this with 18 people and then still get out bid on the drops
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Old 12-06-2023, 01:38 AM
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Most guilds canít do a 18-25 person vindi without a neckbeard composition of chain-dying bane wizards. AoW ainít no VindiÖ

If you are feeling adventurous with your pet choice during a draft Iíd get a few knights and some other Enchís try to wrangle Yetarr. Basically each knight just buying a couple seconds for the next Dictate to land. Unless they are solidly geared the sacrifice would be worth it. Assuming your ench squad can handle it.
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Old 12-06-2023, 09:13 AM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
From the parses I've seen, AoW does about 1.5k dps vs. a defensive war, or about 2.5k dps vs. a non-defensive target. Burst is obviously higher, and will create situations where a warrior dies in 2 combat rounds with about a 1.5 second spacing periodically if not healed, which means the chain has to go at a stable 1 second to deal with variance, since any time you get two combat rounds in between heals you might die if you're unlucky.

Yetarr has 20k HP buffed, which is enough to give time to react when damage spikes come in. Generally with a 3 second chain I would expect them to usually drop to 60% or so before healing to full each heal, very rarely spiking down to 30-40% and going lower only when the chain is off a bit and there's a bunch of max combat rounds at once, where sky neck clicks would be needed.

For the lowest man, and assuming there's no significant heal aggro, I would probably run the entire healing off ~600 corpsed box of the voids + sky neck so there's no casting at all, just assist AoW and click when you see HP hit 50%. 4 to 5 clerics can sustain a chain on that, it would just be a bit of a pain to set up since you would need about 15-20 man-hours of corpsing time.
AoW chains are instant, not 1 second.

Doesn't matter what the paper napkin math says.

Most effective thing is to make sure the enchanters and druids are working together. Snare all troopers, tash all wolves, rune druids, spot heal enc on bad breaks, etc.

Soulfire nerf killed the low number kills. Since your DPS is low your tank WILL get splattered after disc is down eventually. All it takes is 1 missed reaper. Then you're off to the bumps / 2nd tank and re-establishing. The good part w/ troopers and wolves is they can just keep on going.
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Last edited by Toxigen; 12-06-2023 at 09:19 AM..
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