Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Zuranthium]

My math is not wrong at all DSM, yours is:

1.) You try to add an extra tick duration to the DoT's when that's not going to happen much of the time with how fast the group is killing single targets.

2.) You suddenly say you can do Bane + Ebolt every 30 seconds, which you can not. You don't have the mana.

3.) You ignore resists.

4.) You don't understand time expenditure. In your latest post you now claim you can throw in JBB, when that does nothing. If you are using JBB then you aren't doing Canni spam in that time allotment, which means you are losing mana.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Resists can occur on a Mage too, so they are losing DPS as well lol.

Most of a Mage's DPS is from pet + unresistible damage shield.

If you compare their ideal direct-damage spell DPS, the Shaman is barely better than the Mage anyway in a group like this. Mage damage spells are more efficient on their own and they can use Manarobe between med ticks when they have free time for a bit of extra mana.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your Blast of Poison idea is silly too. You would deal 800 damage for 400 mana, but you have double the resist chance because you are casting the spell twice.

You don't have "double the resist chance" you idiot. Blast of Poison is simply flat-out better than Ebolt here. E-bolt is going to do the same amount of damage, since it doesn't have time to actually work fully, and cost you 320 mana rather than 200.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would I use Blast of Poison and not Ice Strike if I wanted to blast something as a shaman? Blast is a mediocre mid-level spell, am I missing something?

Ice Strike gets completely resisted by Velious giants.

The cast time also means you are losing a cast of Canni, which in the end means Ice Strike only has a 2.03 damage-to-mana efficiency, hardly better than the 2.0 of Blast. If you factor in Ice Strike fizzling more because of being higher level, then it's not more efficient at all.

[Ripqozko]

Ah shit , here we go again.jpg

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My math is not wrong at all DSM, yours is:

1.) You try to add an extra tick duration to the DoT's when that's not going to happen much of the time with how fast the group is killing single targets.

2.) You suddenly say you can do Bane + Ebolt every 30 seconds, which you can not. You don't have the mana.

3.) You ignore resists.

4.) You don't understand time expenditure. In your latest post you now claim you can throw in JBB, when that does nothing. If you are using JBB then you aren't doing Canni spam in that time allotment, which means you are losing mana.



Most of a Mage's DPS is from pet + unresistible damage shield.

If you compare their ideal direct-damage spell DPS, the Shaman is barely better than the Mage anyway in a group like this. Mage damage spells are more efficient on their own and they can use Manarobe between med ticks when they have free time for a bit of extra mana.



You don't have "double the resist chance" you idiot. Blast of Poison is simply flat-out better than Ebolt here. E-bolt is going to do the same amount of damage, since it doesn't have time to actually work fully, and cost you 320 mana rather than 200.



Ice Strike gets completely resisted by Velious giants.

You need to just stop embarrassing yourself.

If you are killing a mob at roughly 30 seconds, you will get the DoT ticks most of the time. If think the group is killing considerably faster than 30 seconds, name the time so I can adjust the spells accordingly hehe.

I am not ignoring resists. You simply don't seem to realize it would affect a Mage too. And since a Shaman can regenerate mana faster, it's less of an issue.

Bane cast is 5 seconds, E-Bolt cast is 6 seconds, JBB is 8 seconds. 20 seconds easily fits into 30 seconds lol. I do have the mana, it is not my fault you can't math.

We aren't talking about Velious giants lol. Ice immunity isn't really an issue in Seb, and your DoTs are generally more mana efficient than Blast of Poison unless you are killing really fast.

The problem here is you are assuming the group is always pulling mobs non-stop. The Shaman has time to recover during fights and in-between pulls. If you insist the group can pull that fast, the mobs must be really easy. The Shaman can simply root/rot mobs while waiting for the Enchanters to kill other mobs in that case. It would be more efficient to split up your efforts if you are killing that fast, and in that case a Shaman could do a lot more DPS for less mana with Epic clicks.

Other nukes are more efficient, so I have no idea what your Blast of Poison scenario would look like. You could Bane and then Ice Strike if you wanted to nuke instead. Ice Strike does 675 damage for 250 mana lol. Also, Ice Strike is 2.7 Damage per mana, not 2.03 lol. You are thinking of the wrong spell, probably Blizzard Blast.

For example, let's say your group only takes 20 seconds to kill a mob. 2x Ice Strikes (1350 / 20) is 67.5 DPS for 500 mana. That is even easier to canni back, and fits within the shorter time frame you are taking about.

You want to Bane + E-Bolt on a mob that is going to die in 30ish seconds so you have more recovery time while the mob is dying. It only takes 12 seconds for both casts, and you get at least 50 DPS out of it. You could 3x Ice Strike for 750 mana and get better DPS, but you would have less recovery time.

[PatChapp]

Wheres the spot in seb with a mob every 20 seconds,would needs to do king+ reet caves + every pather lol

[Danth]

Magician with a 175K manna robe, 800K epic, raid loot click boots, etc had better be pretty flippin good. Sheesh, at pushing near to a cool million plat value not even counting any other spells or slots that makes a shaman look cheap. I think Troxx's more modest character is a much better representation of what we can consider baseline.

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wheres the spot in seb with a mob every 20 seconds,would needs to do king+ reet caves + every pather lol

Think a lot of folks are so used to "grind up levels, hit 60, retire and start new alt" that they perhaps aren't as used to doing stuff the way 60 smallmans usually do. Chain-killing is usually not needed and even fairly busy areas like Velketor Broodmother, a high-damage quad-man like this one is going to run out of mobs before the cycle starts anew. If you're more constantly in combat it's usually going to be something that's living for awhile.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wheres the spot in seb with a mob every 20 seconds,would needs to do king+ reet caves + every pather lol

Exactly. Z is somehow thinking the group is just going to be running through Seb at bard speed slaughtering mobs.

The Shaman will have time to Canni/Torpor in Seb lol.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Magician with a 175K manna robe, 800K epic, raid loot click boots, etc had better be pretty flippin good. Sheesh, at pushing near to a cool million plat value not even counting any other spells or slots that makes a shaman look cheap. I think Troxx's more modest character is a much better representation of what we can consider baseline.



Think a lot of folks are so used to "grind up levels, hit 60, retire and start new alt" that they perhaps aren't as used to doing stuff the way 60 smallmans usually do. Chain-killing is usually not needed and even fairly busy areas like Velketor Broodmother, a high-damage quad-man like this one is going to run out of mobs before the cycle starts anew. If you're more constantly in combat it's usually going to be something that's living for awhile.

Danth

Agreed.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are killing a mob at roughly 30 seconds, you will get the DoT ticks most of the time. If think the group is killing considerably faster than 30 seconds, name the time so I can adjust the spells accordingly hehe.

I already listed the accurate uptime of the DoT's. Single targets are generally dying faster than 30 seconds. E-bolt with 1 extra tick is still worse than Shock of Poison anyway.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not ignoring resists. You simply don't seem to realize it would affect a Mage too. And since a Shaman can regenerate mana faster, it's less of an issue.

You ARE ignoring resists. You keep claiming a certain DPS number when that is not accurate. Shaman "regenerating mana faster" is irrelevant. That's already factored into the equation of what the Shaman and Mage can do.

The accurate number is about 28 DPS from Shaman direct-damage spellcasting vs 25 for Mage. Then on top of that the Mage has their pet (60 DPS) + damage shield (15 DPS), compared to Shaman pet (12 DPS). That is 100 DPS for the Mage and 40 for the Shaman.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bane cast is 5 seconds, E-Bolt cast is 6 seconds, JBB is 8 seconds. 20 seconds easily fits into 30 seconds lol. I do have the mana, it is not my fault you can't math.

You are so fucking dumb.

1.) YOU YOURSELF ALREADY SAID YOU ONLY HAVE MANA TO DO BANE + E-BOLT EVERY 40 SECONDS.

2.) The amount of mana you have as a Shaman is dependent on your ability to spam Canni. If you are using JBB, then you are NOT using Canni spam in that time, thus losing a large amount of mana.

As I already said, the best DPS you're going to do is Bane (lasting 3 ticks) + Blast of Poison every 30 seconds.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We aren't talking about Velious giants lol.

Yes we were. I said Kael plate house when you said "there aren't enough MOBs to kill that frequently anyway". Although there is enough to kill in Seb basement anyway if you want to farm the entire thing.

The cold resist thing is irrelevant anyway though, because as I already showed the math for, Shock of Poison is already the top DPS a Shaman can create with direct damage spells. Their cold DD's are slower and thus effectively cost more mana since it's taking away from Canni usage time.

[Keebz]

The fact that you guys think kill speed in Seb is the metric that defines "best" is telling.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You were talking about Kael plate house. I never talked about it lol.

Blast of Poison is only useful if you want a nuke against ice immune mobs. In Kael your DoTs will tick longer because the mobs have more HP. I have done plenty of platehouse on my Shaman hehe.

Again, you are assuming the group is pulling mobs non-stop. That is not going to be the case in a higher level area. A Shaman will have time in-between encounters to recover mana lol. You are not going to be killing 70 mobs in an hour in Sebilis with a group, unless you are running from camp to camp and the zone is completely empty.

Your idea of resistances doesn't make sense. If the group is fighting a bunch of mobs with heavy resistances, then your Enchanters may not have any mobs to charm lol. What zone/camp are you thinking of where the Enchanters are able to charm good pets, while the other casters are unable to land any damage spells consistently, while they are killing mobs every 20 seconds?[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your DPS number is NOT accurate lol. You need to learn how to do basic DPS calculations.

If you are killing a mob in 24 seconds, you would use 2x Ice Strikes. That is 1350 / 24 = 56.25 DPS for 500 mana. 14 second cast time.

If you are killing a mob in 40 seconds, you would use Bane + E-Bolt. That is 5 ticks from Bane and 4 ticks from E-Bolt for a total of 150 + 110 + 1070 + 584 = 1914 /40 = 48 DPS for 750 mana. 12 second cast time.

The Shaman Pet is doing around 10-15 DPS. A Shaman is easily putting out 60-70 DPS against single targets, and has better mana sustainability than a Mage.

Remember, a Mage is putting out 80 DPS assuming perfect conditions (using nothing but nukes). The real DPS number is closer to the 70s.

If you want to include clickies, a mage is increasing their DPS by 18 if they get Boots of the Bladecaller. A Shaman can easily output that much DPS with JBB/Epic if necessary. There really is only about a 30 DPS gap between Shamans and Mages at best, and at worst it's around 10.

[Karanis]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

breathtaking display of autism

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you autistic?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's easy to be a troll account[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]