What next for midlevel bard?

[bcbrown]

I'm still not very good with keeping both mobs at similar health levels - sometimes one is at 5% while the other is at 50% - but I expect that to get much better with more practice. Let's say 10% and 35%?

I don't have a ghazugi ring - does that even break bard charm?

[enjchanter]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm still not very good with keeping both mobs at similar health levels - sometimes one is at 5% while the other is at 50% - but I expect that to get much better with more practice. Let's say 10% and 35%?

I don't have a ghazugi ring - does that even break bard charm?

Yes

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm still not very good with keeping both mobs at similar health levels - sometimes one is at 5% while the other is at 50% - but I expect that to get much better with more practice. Let's say 10% and 35%?

I don't have a ghazugi ring - does that even break bard charm?

keep practicing itll get easier - i never melee on my bard either

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1155754690
(thats not me but a damn good player showcasing what can be done)

drum dots get good by 46 when you have fufil's, chant of flame + frost

even if 1 mob gets to 5% and the other is at 50%, you just did 1.5 mobs worth of dmg with charm and dots, so you finish the one at 5% and figure out your next move...snares, having a sense of timing on the charm breaks, and good movement will negate your damage taken

i liked to pre-cast my next charm spell to try to time it with the breaks...if you go a little early just cancel and re-cast it...the idea is to be proactive rather than reactive

as long as you're killing mobs at low health after a charm break, you're getting the XP...perfect is the enemy of good

also: with an enchanter you don't have to just babysit...you can charm your own mobs too...you basically both do your standard solo thing but now you don't have to worry about charm pets taking XP

[cd288]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm still not very good with keeping both mobs at similar health levels - sometimes one is at 5% while the other is at 50% - but I expect that to get much better with more practice. Let's say 10% and 35%?

I don't have a ghazugi ring - does that even break bard charm?

I've never played Bard significantly so take this with a grain of salt, but I would think that you can use similar methods to Enchanter to close gaps. If your pet is far ahead you can make your charmed pet sit (just spam the sit button every time it stands up) and when the other mob hits it it will take more damage.

If the enemy mob is ahead and you have a slow song, can you twist it in with your charm song or is that a ton of work? Alternatively I would think you could twist a haste song in for your charmed pet which will might help it close the gap.

But the other thing to keep in mind while charm killing is to check the details of the mobs you're killing. Especially if you're killing two different kinds of mobs entirely. Check their level range, check their HP, try to be charm killing two mobs close in level with similar HP pools.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your pet is far ahead you can make your charmed pet sit (just spam the sit button every time it stands up) and when the other mob hits it it will take more damage.

This works especially well when there's a really annoying lower level mob that you need to get rid of, xp be damned, like Brother Jentry. Usually he dies to Lucan before the 1st charm wears off when being commanded to sit, just have to time it right. Once had Jentry get down to 0% when charm broke. Assumed he died, but out from the militia house he came with Lucan and the one guard add, still sitting, scooting along in hot pursuit. Luckily, he didn't try to cast CH, though IDK if NPCs can while sitting?

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alternatively I would think you could twist a haste song in for your charmed pet which will might help it close the gap.

Bard haste doesn't effect charmed (or summoned) pets unfortunately. In fact, none of the other beneficial songs can be applied to pets either.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as long as you're killing mobs at low health after a charm break, you're getting the XP...perfect is the enemy of good

I appreciate the mindset-check; you're absolutely right.

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never played Bard significantly so take this with a grain of salt, but I would think that you can use similar methods to Enchanter to close gaps.

Your advice is helpful and good, but the big difference between bard charms and other charming classes (I've only really charmed on druid) is that charm only lasts 3-4 ticks, so you end up constantly swapping between the two mobs, charming one and dotting the other. So when there's a significant power imbalance I think you should be just dotting the stronger one, not the weaker one. I think the challenge I was facing was that the gnolls were killing each other so fast I hardly got a chance to notice which was significantly stronger until the other one was already at like 30-40% health. Which isn't really a complaint - that's a good thing that they're dying so fast!

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bard haste doesn't effect charmed (or summoned) pets unfortunately. In fact, none of the other beneficial songs can be applied to pets either.

This answers one of the questions I had. Do slows/hastes stack with enchanter/shaman slow/haste? Someone I was grouping with said that the haste effects stack, but I'm a little skeptical.

I'm almost done with 35 now. I did a couple levels in Mistmoore GY/CE, and it was great fun. I saved a wipe on a bad pull by CCing with charm to keep two occupied, and then when we were down to the last mob, everyone oom and low health, I could twist mez/mana/health until we were ready to take it down.

I'm out at the giant fort in Frontier Mountains now, mostly duoing and soloing. It's been a great place to practice pulling, and it's nice how fast the repops are. After getting Cantata of Soothing my weapons are almost permanently bagged, although I did pull them out to tank for a monk. Just Selo's Consonant Chain wasn't enough to hold aggro, but that plus Chords of Dissonance plus the DD procs from the Venomous Axe was. What's the best aggro twist? I don't want to use Chords of Dissonance if there's an enchanter mezzing.

Duoing with a necro was especially fun. He would dot or dd while adding his pet, and I would tank and dot. The slow is starting to get more and more significant. And it's always nice to feed a synergy like lich and hp/mana regen.

One thing that surprised me is that I was charming far less often than I expected. With the monk there was enough DPS that the added charm DPS didn't appreciably speed things up. Since you can't mez giants, if charm broke at an awkward timing you'd either have to recharm and break up the flow waiting for charm to break before killing it, or have two mobs beating on us until the first mob died. Adding a priest class as a trio probably would have changed that calculus, as healing was our bottleneck. But we were killing almost continuously for over an hour with only a couple breaks to heal up, so it felt pretty good.

I mostly use charm as cc, which worked pretty well. It's also nice to be able to occasionally pause a tough fight to be able to take a breather and regen a couple ticks. I discovered a nice synergy while duoing with a necro. Towards the end of a tough fight with adds we were both at about 30-50% health, as was the one giant left. When the necro announced oom, I decided to charm to give us a breather. Since the necro dots aren't removed when charmed, by the time charm broke the giant was almost dead, and what had been a tough fight was suddenly really easy.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm almost done with 35 now. I did a couple levels in Mistmoore GY/CE, and it was great fun. I saved a wipe on a bad pull by CCing with charm to keep two occupied, and then when we were down to the last mob, everyone oom and low health, I could twist mez/mana/health until we were ready to take it down.

I'm out at the giant fort in Frontier Mountains now, mostly duoing and soloing. It's been a great place to practice pulling, and it's nice how fast the repops are. After getting Cantata of Soothing my weapons are almost permanently bagged, although I did pull them out to tank for a monk. Just Selo's Consonant Chain wasn't enough to hold aggro, but that plus Chords of Dissonance plus the DD procs from the Venomous Axe was. What's the best aggro twist? I don't want to use Chords of Dissonance if there's an enchanter mezzing.

Duoing with a necro was especially fun. He would dot or dd while adding his pet, and I would tank and dot. The slow is starting to get more and more significant. And it's always nice to feed a synergy like lich and hp/mana regen.

One thing that surprised me is that I was charming far less often than I expected. With the monk there was enough DPS that the added charm DPS didn't appreciably speed things up. Since you can't mez giants, if charm broke at an awkward timing you'd either have to recharm and break up the flow waiting for charm to break before killing it, or have two mobs beating on us until the first mob died. Adding a priest class as a trio probably would have changed that calculus, as healing was our bottleneck. But we were killing almost continuously for over an hour with only a couple breaks to heal up, so it felt pretty good.

I mostly use charm as cc, which worked pretty well. It's also nice to be able to occasionally pause a tough fight to be able to take a breather and regen a couple ticks. I discovered a nice synergy while duoing with a necro. Towards the end of a tough fight with adds we were both at about 30-50% health, as was the one giant left. When the necro announced oom, I decided to charm to give us a breather. Since the necro dots aren't removed when charmed, by the time charm broke the giant was almost dead, and what had been a tough fight was suddenly really easy.

So great to read stuff like this. You're playing bard the way its meant to be played - doing a little bit of everything and trying different duos. Forget the weapons, its lute and drum from here on out.

Necro + bard kicks so much ass. Keep an eye on /who in Kaesora - if you see any necros your level (or up to 40/42 really), hit them up and ask if you can come duo. That will be some of the most fun you can have, because the necro is charming solo and you'll make their life WAY easier if they're open to it.

You just may want to ask them to come up topside (most bind outside when they start their charm journey there) for some help down on your first go, it can be a bit confusing.

So much damn synergy there its absurd. After that you can bring your new necro friends to city of mist for more of that sick duo and then you'll be outdoors for some really nutty barding.

[Ripqozko]

c u in the future when you twist mana song and afk in our riot raids.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

c u in the future when you twist mana song and afk in our riot raids.

this is the way (to fund your next alt)

[busted]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do slows/hastes stack with enchanter/shaman slow/haste? Someone I was grouping with said that the haste effects stack, but I'm a little skeptical..

The dots/debuff components of the slow songs stack but the slow component does not.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's the best aggro twist?

It used to be slow songs but there is a nerf in place on them. See https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=416857

Now best aggro songs are the drum dots. (aka do as much damage as possible to try and hold aggro)

Alternatively, you can "hold aggro" if other classes root mobs on you and you get as close as possible to the mob.

A few more pro tips for you:

1. Get a https://wiki.project1999.com/Goblin_Gazughi_Ring you can insta break charm when mobs at low health and kill em for full exp

2. Some mobs like velious giants/drovargs/etc will social aggro when you charm and attack a group (up to 3 from what I've seen). You can charm 1 mob and attack it on a group of 3 giants and they will all beat on your pet until charm breaks. When it breaks and you recharm, you have to circle around the mob and drag the adds (now on you) over top of the charmed pet to get them aggroed on your pet again. When you are doing this method you can't attack/dmg any of the adds or they won't ever get back on your pet. Add a damage shield to your charmed pet for increased killin speeds.

3. Once you get level 39 charm and you need to use it, it will start consuming mana. Bard mana is very slow to regen (1 per tick standing or 2 per tick sitting). You can "double" this by getting a thurgadin shawl https://wiki.project1999.com/Runed_Coldain_Prayer_Shawl . Its a longggggg quest but very worth it for bard solo charming in later levels. It basically makes you mana neutral and able to hold a pet forever when crawling in dungeons. The method goes like this: Charm mob, attack other guy, twist 2-3 songs for group, cast recharm and time it right so you insta charm your guy again. In between fights, mez your pet and have a seat to regain mana 2x faster to keep the fun times rolling