Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Vexenu]

DSM, we've already established that your appeals to "the math" are bullshit. I gave you the example of shotgunning a beer: just because you can drink a beer in five seconds that way does not mean you can extrapolate out and claim you can drink 720 beers per hour. It doesn't matter if you're spamming Canni and Torpor non-stop, with C2, bard song and your Ogre grandma's magical pair of mana-regenerating panties on your head. You are not going to out-DPS a Mage over the length of an average group. You aren't even going to come close. You're going to sit there root rotting mobs for over 800 mana a pop (you conveniently ignore root mana cost in your calc despite claiming you will kill four a time) while the Mage just has to refresh pet haste and DS every few minutes. He can just sit there spamming Burnt Wood Staff/Lord Bob boots for additional mana-free damage. He can do that all day long. Meanwhile you're blowing 800 mana per kill and claiming you can keep up the same kill rate. You're positively demented.

There's a reason literally no one has ever seen the following sentence uttered in the entire history of P1999: "Group looking for Shaman for DPS".

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The math is still fact. You didn't even read my post based on how bad your understanding of it is. Your entire post is just nonsensical and a waste of time. Read my posts properly so you don't look like a fool.

I am sorry you are in denial. There is a reason why level 60 groups only look for Mages when they need CoTH[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a reason why level 60 groups only look for Mages when they need CoTH[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL

[Citation Needed]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just going to repost this in the hopes people actually read it.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:34 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:18 2022] Your Bane of Nife spell has worn off.

[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:41 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Your Envenomed Bolt spell has worn off.


[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
30 seconds (6 Ticks)

[Mon Aug 22 08:13:25 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
24 seconds (4 Ticks)

Enemy Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:32 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP

Pet DPS
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:24 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:25 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:28 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 16 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:33 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:42 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 18 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:43 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:44 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 39 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:49 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:53 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:56 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:58 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 20 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:01 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:03 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:05 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:06 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:15 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:17 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:22 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:30 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:38 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 15 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:41 2022] You bash froglok jin shaman for 1 point of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:42 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 21 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 22 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 26 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:54 2022] You have slain froglok jin shaman!

6,549 damage over 93 seconds = 70.5 DPS

This is 70.5 DPS to a froglok jin shaman in Sebilis just using a 50% hasted Spirit of the Howler pet and Bane of Nife + Envenomed Bolt. The pet is not max level. He is hitting for 47, so that is a lower end pet (max is 52, each level increases damage by 2). No need to root/rot with this setup in a group, and the DoTs only last 7 or 8 ticks.

A single set of Bane of Nife + Envenomed Bolt costs 745 mana. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc using this video, it looks like you can Torpor recover mana at around 14 mana per second. If you include C2, it is more like 16 mana per second. This means you can recover the 745 mana in 46 seconds. That is easily the length of a fight if Enchanters are fighting 2 mobs with charmed pets. This means the DPS is generally sustainable too.

Troxx's Mage was averaging 80 DPS based on the data he has given. An Epic Mage could do 104 DPS based on the data he has given.

To set the root/rotting method straight, this example is root/rotting three mobs in one room while the two Enchanters are killing in another room. Epic + Pox + Paralyzing Earth on 3 mobs costs 1600 mana. The DPS is (1425 + 2088) / 108 seconds = 32.5 DPS per mob. I can recover that mana in 100 seconds if you read how quickly a Torpor Shaman can recover mana in the quote above. This means I could do 97.5 DPS, not including my pet. Based on the logs above, the pet is adding another 15 DPS. So a Shaman could do 110 DPS roughly with this method, and recover all of the mana by the time the DoTs expire. This is above Troxx's standard 80 DPS, and the 104 DPS if we use a Mage Epic Pet instead. Again, Epic Mages are quite rare, so I wouldn't be expecting that DPS most of the time when a Mage joins your group.

Sadly Mage DPS isn't anything special at level 60. It is why most Mages end up being CoTH bots.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The math is still fact. You didn't even read my post based on how bad your understanding of it is. Your entire post is just nonsensical and a waste of time. Read my posts properly so you don't look like a fool.

I am sorry you are in denial. There is a reason why level 60 groups only look for Mages when they need CoTH[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At this point I really assume you’re intentionally trolling. No one could this frequently take terrible positions and then just die on the hill over them.

Either that or you’re just unable to ever accede that you could be wrong about something. Bet you’re fun at cocktail parties

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At this point I really assume you’re intentionally trolling. No one could this frequently take terrible positions and then just die on the hill over them.

Either that or you’re just unable to ever accede that you could be wrong about something. Bet you’re fun at cocktail parties

This isn't how you actually debate or win an argument. "I am right and you are wrong" means nothing. You haven't provided any counter-evidence, probably because you have none. I would love to see it.

I am sorry that you cannot accept actual data. Your inability to accept it doesn't change the facts, regardless of how much you want it to.

[Karanis]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM, just because you can drink a beer in five seconds does not mean you can drink 720 beers per hour.

Can we get an hour-long video of you pumping shaman dps to the max in some kind of group?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Karanis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can we get an hour-long video of you pumping shaman dps to the max in some kind of group?

At this point we really need a video of a level 60 Mage, so we can see what they can do. I have a whole youtube channel full of videos of my Shaman, while all of these posters who don't like the data have yet to even show logs besides Troxx lol. The burden of proof is on the side of people defending Mages. It is pretty one sided right now in terms of evidence. I am providing the vast majority of it, while everybody else is basically trolling. Troxx is the only one to provide data (thank you for that), but the data doesn't show Mages in a great position. If his data is wrong, someone else needs to step up and bring some.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx's Mage was averaging 80 DPS based on the data he has given.

That's an aggressively careless interpretation of Troxx's claims. Let me remind you:

Originally Posted by Troxx

Ailowen (60 mage) + pet (water) minus DS so far seb crypt

Low: 72dps
High: 175dps

I'll post screenshots later. busy at the moment

New pets are definitely weaker. I'm a sad panda but still averaging 90-110dps overall per xp group fight

Originally Posted by Troxx

Bear in mind that things get weird when you combine fights. Actual dps levels for everyone involved (scaled or otherwise) are below actual real time values parsed.

Troxx's claim isn't 80 dps; his claims are that he did about 172% of the dps of the well geared sk (about 165% of the dps of the Tunare wielding monk), and that he eyeballed the average (each single fight gives him the real dps number; only the combined fights degrade to relative dps) to be about 90-110 dps.

We can do a sanity check on these relative values by assuming the real dps of one of the characters and calculating what that would imply the real dps of the others to be. If we assume 90 dps for Troxx it puts the sk at 52 dps and the monk at 55. If we assume 110 dps for Troxx it puts the sk at 64 dps and the monk at 67. If we assume 60 melee dps for the sk (plausible to me based on parses I've done in seb), it would put Troxx at ~103 dps.

[Ripqozko]

Need fraps with 7 different angles and assist target macros or these fraps arent viable.