******Official politics thread ******

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man, people believe some really stupid shit just because a handful of dead white guys thought it was a good idea over 300 years ago.

Look...Who ever decided they support gun right because of what Jefferson said really? Sure plenty of people say that this is about fundamental freedoms, founding fathers, blah blah blah...But they would have no problems supporting extreme gun ownership rights even if these guys never breathed a word about it...its not like everyone thought it was a great idea or particularly important...some more than others and it was compromise like the rest of the constitution (which is imperfect and constantly reinterpreted and sometimes officially modified...it remains untested in a few areas).

BTW -- they gave everyone in Russia a gun...they had guns in Germany -- none of this gun shit ever once stopped a tyrannical government except maybe China.....right before Mao and his tyrannical government took over.

The gun owners will be the most ardent supporters of a fascist government if we ever should elect one.

My argument against the idea that guns help defend against government tryanny is Shay's Rebellion 1787 -- probably the first time the 2nd amendment failed to fullfill its stated purpose.

You know whats amazing about philosophy. You can read their works and great philosophers logic and ideas hold up no matter what era you are in.

It's the height of arrogance to disregard the build up of what went into the development of political structure since the beginning of time. Our founding fathers took this into consideration and put safe guards in the form in inalienable rights and freedoms against tyrannical governments.

I pointed it out and someone else mentioned it to. When ever governments take away guns it's always accompanied by that nation not having things such as freedom of speech.

Either we are going to live in a free society where you are capable of defending yourself or we are going to have daddy government protect us and tell us what to say and think.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Xaanka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

china isn't gonna pass up the west it's a bubble go over there and see it for yourself speculative real estate isn't gonna support them forever

like im all for how chinas pulled themselves out of shithole status 100% but yeah you're basically just saying the same thing everyone did about japan in the 80s.

automation is around the corner and the chimerica paradigm will be the absolute first casualty. i believe china will keep with the times and remain as a world leader but it will be rough for a while for sure.

ppl already saying the same thing about india. superpower 2020!

Yea because land is such an unstable shaky investment that never retains its value. More like a building development bubble at most. It's not even going to be that.

The Japan 80s thing was a shallow media craze no one with any shred of seriousness took the bait on...it existed mostly in Hollywood egged on by car-producing areas like Detroit who hated Japanese competition.

India is a joke because its a democracy that is also poor and riddled with ethnic divides...its going no where. It's only significant because its going to be pumping coal into the air and providing business opportunities for the elites in the west/china...notice how they worked their way unto the list more and more.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once you get rid of those rights, they do not come back. And you just dont understand it at all and YES guns will protect americans one day from a hostile regime.

Becuse

1. you will never take them away
2. hostile regime will not have the full force of the military at their control, you would know this if libtards knew ANYTHING about the American military or reality
3. liberals will eventually force their ideology on the American citizens and we will kill you all with ar-15s and it will be hilarious.
4. your gay little children will thank us and be our slaves.

One day..... I'm horrified for when the next establishment liberal comes into office.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know whats amazing about philosophy. You can read their works and great philosophers logic and ideas hold up no matter what era you are in.

It's the height of arrogance to disregard the build up of what went into the development of political structure since the beginning of time. Our founding fathers took this into consideration and put safe guards in the form in inalienable rights and freedoms against tyrannical governments.

I pointed it out and someone else mentioned it to. When ever governments take away guns it's always accompanied by that nation not having things such as freedom of speech.

See, you arguing that some abstract idea (that guns make society more free*) is true. But you don't any actual evidence that is true. I offered actual historical cases of societies where the right of citizens to bare arms was implemented...in those societies...those same citizens participated in the tyrannical governments their supposed to defend against.

During Shay's rebellion, when a bunch of cowardly landlords stole property of U.S. Militia men that were fighting for the country -- the elites (like dear founding fathers) sided with the landlords of course, and used the central government to butcher those that rebelled with guns....this is how it always goes down which is why arming the population with small weapons never will or has defended against a tyrannical government.

The idea that the founding fathers possess any kind of timeless wisdom and that we should defer to them -- is a child-like argument. Who cares? They were there -- they were right some of the time wrong other times. There's little evidence they are why American won World War II and thus inherited super-power status...

It's like talking to people that actually believed high school history class (in the 80s/90s) and never delved deeper. Every empire is full of myths that aren't true. The founding fathers myths are our version of that.

Edit: here is what our founding fathers couldn't have really understood in their time....we were colonized people. And colonized people are better off armed when they rebel. Guns are useful to overthrow colonization...to this day that is true...they have never been useful fighting the natively-elected/legitimate government...just a foreign government.

*free from our own government's tyranny is how it is pitched exactly.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Pokesan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The philosopher John Locke also wrote reports on how to deal with the children of the poor: ‘The children of the labouring people are an ordinary burthen to the parish and are usually maintained in idleness, so that their labour also is lost to the public till they are 12 or 14 years old.’ The conclusion drawn by Locke (left) was that poor children should be put to work at three years old with a bellyful of bread daily, supplemented in cold weather by ‘a little warm water-gruel’.

Locke also argued that we all have natural born rights....but we forfit those rights when enslaved...so you don't have to worry about blacks or profiting off of slavery (like Locke was profiting off slavery).

It's almost as if he was a rich white prick writing a book for other rich white pricks about why aristocrats were worse than businessmen...and then threw in a bunch of flowery philosophical language....

that's actually exactly what he did.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See, you arguing that some abstract idea (that guns make society more free*) is true. But you don't any actual evidence that is true. I offered actual historical cases of societies where the right of citizens to bare arms was implemented...in those societies...those same citizens participated in the tyrannical governments their supposed to defend against.

During Shay's rebellion, when a bunch of cowardly landlords stole property of U.S. Militia men that were fighting for the country -- the elites (like dear founding fathers) sided with the landlords of course, and used the central government to butcher those that rebelled with guns....this is how it always goes down which is why arming the population with small weapons never will or has defended against a tyrannical government.

The idea that the founding fathers possess any kind of timeless wisdom and that we should defer to them -- is a child-like argument. Who cares? They were there -- they were right some of the time wrong other times. There's little evidence they are why American won World War II and thus inherited super-power status...

It's like talking to people that actually believed high school history class (in the 80s/90s) and never delved deeper. Every empire is full of myths that aren't true. The founding fathers myths are our version of that.

Edit: here is what our founding fathers couldn't have really understood in their time....we were colonized people. And colonized people are better off armed when they rebel. Guns are useful to overthrow colonization...to this day that is true...they have never been useful fighting the natively-elected/legitimate government...just a foreign government.

*free from our own government's tyranny is how it is pitched exactly.

LOL it's not an abstract idea.

One case you have the freedom to protect and defend yourself. The other case you don't.

What happens when a bully knows a mark is valuable, weak and defenseless?

There's a very clear relationship here that is fact.

[mickmoranis]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See, you arguing that some abstract idea (that guns make society more free*) is true. But you don't any actual evidence that is true. I offered actual historical cases of societies where the right of citizens to bare arms was implemented...in those societies...those same citizens participated in the tyrannical governments their supposed to defend against.

libtards like to compare savage countries that are not even remotly westernized and then compare them to our countries and use that like some sort of argument.

The savages you speak about have drastically less gun ownership among middle class working people than america, ever, has had, in the history of america.

The savages you speak about are savages.

Your arguments are specious, they are pathetic, and like all libtard arguments about this subject are lacking substance and actual thought.

At no point have you even made one point, that is remotely true.

Canadians used guns to become free. America used guns to become free. Australia used guns to become free.

There is no western civilization that cannot thank guns, and the freedom they gave their citiziens, for making free countries a thing.

Guns are what made you even eligible to have an opinion on them.

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by Pokesan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The philosopher John Locke also wrote reports on how to deal with the children of the poor: ‘The children of the labouring people are an ordinary burthen to the parish and are usually maintained in idleness, so that their labour also is lost to the public till they are 12 or 14 years old.’ The conclusion drawn by Locke (left) was that poor children should be put to work at three years old with a bellyful of bread daily, supplemented in cold weather by ‘a little warm water-gruel’.

I would use the children of the poor as a food source

[JurisDictum]

Well as Mick points out, none of my examples work because they are Russian and Chinese savages that are genetically inferior and thus -- guns work different for them than us.

Either that or Mick full of shit and people that like guns like getting on their soap box about defending against tyrannical governments -- but really they just want to shoot the shit out of some cans and make fun of liberals.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Locke also argued that we all have natural born rights....but we forfit those rights when enslaved...so you don't have to worry about blacks or profiting off of slavery (like Locke was profiting off slavery).

It's almost as if he was a rich white prick writing a book for other rich white pricks about why aristocrats were worse than businessmen...and then threw in a bunch of flowery philosophical language....

that's actually exactly what he did.

You're a liberal right? You want socialized medicine. Why aren't you paying other people's medical bills already then?