Where did WoW go right?

[Dirtnap]

This thread started off as a discussion on the positive things in WoW. Which also had some discussion on the negative things. Then turned into a discussion on difficulty, which ended up a discussion about the difficulty gap between EQ and WoW. Many said EQ was way easier than WoW. Houdiny had the opposite opinion, and even had factual evidence to support his claim. However, his opinion was different from yours, and several others, and so this thread became a flame war between the two opinions.

I read the thread friend.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, I don't feel the need to show respect to people who came into a POSITIVE topic, only to bash a game and make negative comparisons. It isn't my fault people couldn't read the topic title correctly, its your fault. It sounds like I've played as far into EQ as you and others here have, so like I asked these others, post more information and direct it to my points I made, you don't seem to be able to respond. Instead you take the sensitivity on the internet route.


Right, and I made points about that, and pointed you to another thread focused on that. We can agree to disagree, that's fine. I'd rather spend the "time" playing the game, the game.

You don't have experience in WoW, so don't make comparisons, that was never the point of this topic anyway. Why do you need to defend EQ on a classic EQ forum? No one has a response to that.

Again, read the other thread about timesinks. Saying a timesink is "difficult" is just silly. Difficult why? Because you spend hours to accomplish one little thing? Why is this considered difficult?

In the other thread, you'll see what your posting is already addressed by me as well as others, and pretty much shows what you're saying is silly.

Say you have to camp a specific mob for about 18 hours straight, does that mean it is difficult, or does it mean it just requires a lot of time? We are talking about things in a game sense, not that you can't eat/shower for 18 hours, that isn't game difficulty.

I think you have created an amalgamation of people posting in this thread. I never had a problem with WoW, IMO its a very well made game and I had fun playing it. You are so overly defensive of WoW you can't even seperate who has said what. To be honest if wanted to bash WoW I could, I could do the same for EQ, both games have a flaw list 10 miles long. In all honesty your compsure does a lot more detriment than anything I could say as you are a great reminder of the anti-social player base in WoW.

As far as points go, you really haven't made any in response to me except for your opinion that timesinks =\= difficulty. While I can definitely understand you would "rather play the game" you are arguing apples and oranges. Your preference of playstyle has nothing to do with the definition of difficulty, the level of impediment in reaching your goal.

Also you fail to see the irony of talking about how WoW was more excessible to everyone than making incorrect statements about who played what. I mean it really doesn't matter what you think, I played and enjoyed WoW and know it. But it does just degrade your arguments when you start basing them on knowing details about the lives of people you have never met. End game in WoW was far more attainable than end game in EQ.

You also failed to address the points brought up by other people about item obtainment in WoW but that could just go on forever.

[bizzum]

The second half of this thread is more representative of the average WoW player. Maybe they just started to chime in!

[Dirtnap]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, the thread started to derail once "difficulty" and "too easy/casual" starting coming up, which are just taking shots at a game. His "factual evidence" was grossly exaggerated, and if you ever did those raids he spoke of, you'd understand. You clearly have not, and you aren't contributing to the topic, or even the derail topic, friend. If you'd like to quote and address points I've made, or even others that made some, feel free.

All I am understanding from your posts, (And this is going to bite me in the ass.) is that you are mad that a discussion, moved away from the initial point.

I'm going to leave my posting at this. You can consider this a victory or something.

[bluntfang]

Originally Posted by Atmas

You are so overly defensive of WoW you can't even seperate who has said what.

That's because everyone keeps repeating the same thing that has been addressed by square and others ad infinitum as "responses" to square's arguments.

Their response to timesink != difficulty? But Timesinks are difficult!

Their response to encounters being more complex in WoW? But EQ Encouters are less forgiving and thus more complex!

square is the only one trying to have a discussion, but everyone else seems to be stuck on the few things that "made EQ great" in a thread about what made WoW great.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by bluntfang [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stuck on the few things that "made EQ great" in a thread about what made WoW great.

See there it goes again, and I guess a lot of it is my fault for being bated. I never said timesinks made EQ great.

I made a post in this thread way earlier about what I thought WoW did right in becoming a huge financial success.

Later down the line when Square was arguing with people I tried to make a non-opininated post about the "new subject" and he came out with a condscending post much like he had done to some other people.

What WoW did right is pretty apparent, just people tend to phrase it in ways based on their opinion. Someone says they made it more accessible and someone else uses the words too easy.

[Dirtnap]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What WoW did right is pretty apparent, just people tend to phrase it in ways based on their opinion. Someone says they made it more accessible and someone else uses the words too easy.

Pretty much the whole discussion.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was in a large raiding guild in WoW for a while, and often was in some of the top ranked 3v3 and 5v5 teams on the Blackrock server (aj/misc be mirin). If I was anti-social this wouldn't of been possible, seeing as how interaction and communication is truly key. I never said EQ sucks, or WoW sucks, it was a debate about complexity and feeling like you're truly playing, instead of watching a movie. There are too many people blinded by nostalgia, and they keep forgetting what forum we're on. I play on P1999 for god's sake. I obviously enjoy EQ. Why does it needed to be defended, and WoW need to be bashed? Especially in a POSITIVE thread.



Your bolded quote speaks for itself. I chuckled. I guess I just prefer challenges (some minor) over sitting on my ass waiting for hours.



It is/was more accessible. Everyone who seems to bash WoW has limited experience with it though, so they are bashing something they've barely experienced. I never enjoyed the leveling/questing in WoW myself, but I enjoyed the PVP/PVE end game, you know...the focus of the game. Everyone's debate is "oh my gosh its so easy to level in wow its casual and sucks". Please...

I did address item obtainment, I mentioned arenas vs battleground gear, guild raid vs raid finder, etc. I'd rather play a game for 2 hours and have a chance for items, than camp a spawn for 20 hours to have a chance at the item, once. If you don't agree, that's fine. The majority of people don't have 20 hours to spare.

I chuckled too. You are reading my post but I guess this is failure of the internet where you are deriving something not intended.

I do not like timesinks. I don't like getting carpal tunnel handing in 2g at a time to NPCs for faction. Me saying that EQ is more difficult because it has timesinks does not mean I think it is a better game because of it. I can tell you that a football field is 100 yards from end zone to end zone, it doesn't indicate if I have a preference for a particular team.

Me saying that you can level any class solo in WoW but not EQ does not mean I think it is automatically a better game. I do personally feel that a lot of people in WoW were more clueless about their class or social skills because of it at end game though.

I have always said I thought WoW was way more polished than EQ or any other MMO I have played when it was released.

[bluntfang]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What WoW did right is pretty apparent, just people tend to phrase it in ways based on their opinion. Someone says they made it more accessible and someone else uses the words too easy.

So you say you're intelligent enough to discern the difference between a fact phrased as an opinion and an opinion, yet you still post here telling people that they are making opinions and not stating fact? What exactly is your purpose in this thread if not a poor attempt at trolling?

[Dirtnap]

Originally Posted by bluntfang [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you say you're intelligent enough to discern the difference between a fact phrased as an opinion and an opinion, yet you still post here telling people that they are making opinions and not stating fact? What exactly is your purpose in this thread if not a poor attempt at trolling?

Whenever someone says a game's aspect is better, it is an opinion. The fact in his statement, was that people are stating the same opinion in a different way.

Edited for clarity.