Game Mechanics: Mellee miss rate seems excessively high.

[Dantes]

It seems excessive but it's not inhibiting me from playing the game. I have leveled to 15 as a warrior and I will continue to level without problems. I just seem to miss a lot more often than I remember. I really just can't wait to get to level 20 so those caps are lifted. That's when being a warrior started to be fun.

[Yoite]

President doesn't miss against that light blue mob b/c he is 50. You're missing against light blues mobs b/c you're only 12. That's all I'm seeing here.

[Cogwell]

With all due respect to those on both sides, you're taking extremely small sample sizes and making sweeping conclusions from them. This is the same as someone who sees that it's snowing in March, and therefore discounts global climate change.

Honestly, heres what I think is happening - its called the Ladder of Inference.

Since you're starting with the assumption that miss rate is high, every time you have a statistical outlier (a fight in which you miss a lot versus a lower level mob) you remember it, since it supports your assumption. When you WTFPWN a blue by not missing much and hitting hard, when it does the opposite, you don't even think about it and go about your business.

Furthermore, at low level you don't have all the tools to bolster a miss rate in the 30s (which honestly sounds just about right or even a tad low, from what i remember from classic). At 15, you're not double attacking and dual wielding frequently - at high level when you quad most rounds and miss 1-2 each quad, you probably won't even think much of it.

Of course I've had fights against blues where it went poorly, but I've also had fights against whites where at the end I was at the same life % I started it with.

[girth]

I think caster NPCs are more broken then melee, but you may be somewhat correct. Melee has gotten 100000 times better than it was at release. I had to quit my monk, and I'm still not sure I can go back to him since they seem to have an avoidance issue that still has them taking too much damage - which actually could just be from an issue like this.

But caster npc's - that is what you should make a post about.

[Bruman]

Currently my monk misses a lot, regardless if I'm in a group fighting a red or a green skeleton that I ran too close to. My special attack often does the minimum damage (1) instead of it's max (in the 40s or 50s).

However, I remember the exact same experience on live. Chasing down a green mob and firing awesome quad-misses. Flying Kick only hitting for 3. Stupid crap like that.

I want to say I remember a patch where Flying Kick at least was buffed to have a higher minimum damage, but in general, this is how I remember things being. Could I be wrong? Definitely, but it doesn't seem that out of order to me.

[Morndenkainen]

Originally Posted by Yoite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

President doesn't miss against that light blue mob b/c he is 50. You're missing against light blues mobs b/c you're only 12. That's all I'm seeing here.

Yeah, and that tends to support my conclusion, as the light blue he's fighting is a good 35-40 levels higher than the one im fighting. Even at level 50, you should still miss occasionally, if you look at his fight, he doesnt miss once. Sure there's plenty of times where he doesnt hit for max damage, as he should, however he's not suffering from the same miss rate that a lower level player is wherein the skill differences are the same... Remember, a level 5 mob, has a defense skill of 30, compared to a level 12 players offense/wepon skill X 1/2 = 65 A 35 point difference.? Were the miss rate consistent, the level 40 giant would have a defense skill of 205, compared to a level 50 chars offense skill + weapon skill X1/2 of 255, which is a 50 skill point difference.. Are you then trying to state that a mere 15 points of skill reduces the miss rate from about 40% to 0%? That doesnt make sense at all, because by that math, I should NEVER miss a level 1 or 2 creature, which I still do occasionally. The reason I should never miss, is that I outclass a level 1 or 2 creatures defense by 60 points, which is even 10 more of a difference than what President has... Face it, either he should be missing alot more, or lower level chars should be missing alot less. Even if I were to count that giant at a direct level relationship between me and president and say he was fighting a level 43, with a defense of 220, it would only skew the difference farther in my favor and support the conclusion even more strongly. Either he should miss more, or I should hit more...

Girth, regarding your post, I've fought 2 caster NPC's and gotten wiped out both times. 2 fights does not give me enough experience to say wether or not theyre broken.. However, the countless Melee fights i've been in have left me with the conclusion that melee is seriously skewed the wrong way (atleast at untwinked lower levels).

Bruman, Yeah, it happened on live from time to time, I remember playing a monk there as well, but it didnt happen nearly as often as it seems to happen here. Like I said, I was able to solo with a warrior to 23 on live without serious issues.. Here, im struggling at 13, and I've narrowed it down to pretty much the hit rate alone. Yeah, getting hit harder than I think I should be with the armor im wearing is kinda annoying, but Its hard to tell if thats out of line.. As i've repeatedly said though, the miss rate? That is out of line...

[President]

Once again your posts are all assumptions and memory even in the face of multiple people telling you nothing is wrong.

You really ought to find some facts from 1999 to back up what you are saying or your really just wasting your time.

[Yoite]

at lvl 50 President has 250 skill, thats why he doesnt miss a lot. You only have 60, thats why you miss a lot.

You are trying to say the differance between a lvl 12 vs 5 and a lvl 50 vs 43 is the same when it is not. Just b/c the differences in skill points between these mobs are the same you will not get the same results b/c the skill points are much higher on the higher lvl mobs. Its not so much that there is a difference of 35 points between the PCs atk skill and the mobs def skill, its more about having higher skill lvl.

I dont know how else to tell ya that at low lvls your char sucks and as you lvl you get more badass. Thats how it goes.

[Morndenkainen]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once again your posts are all assumptions and memory even in the face of multiple people telling you nothing is wrong.

You really ought to find some facts from 1999 to back up what you are saying or your really just wasting your time.

Well, with people like you telling me im wrong, without explaining the how or why, im not too keen to listen. 2+2=4 is a fact, not an assumption. In order for my assumption to be wrong, there's got to be a variable in place that shouldnt be where it is.. If you've got a formula or explanation from a legitimate source, other than your memory, that shows how what you are saying is right, PLEASE SHARE IT! Apparenlty my memory serves well enough to notice the problem though, because for every person you think has said im wrong, another is saying im right. At anyrate, if you arent going to debate this intelligently or offer an actual reason why im wrong, other than what you "remember" you shouldnt expect anyone to take you seriously. Seeing as you have no respect for anyone elses memory that doesnt support your own, you shouldnt be trying to use yours as a factual basis for anything either. If you dont think mine is right, then the same argument applies to you. Meanwhile, please crunch some numbers, and support your arugments with fact rather than fiction.

[Morndenkainen]

Originally Posted by Yoite [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

at lvl 50 President has 250 skill, thats why he doesnt miss a lot. You only have 60, thats why you miss a lot.

You are trying to say the differance between a lvl 12 vs 5 and a lvl 50 vs 43 is the same when it is not. Just b/c the differences in skill points between these mobs are the same you will not get the same results b/c the skill points are much higher on the higher lvl mobs. Its not so much that there is a difference of 35 points between the PCs atk skill and the mobs def skill, its more about having higher skill lvl.

I dont know how else to tell ya that at low lvls your char sucks and as you lvl you get more badass. Thats how it goes.

Well, whats broken really is the way hits and misses are calculated. Eh, not broken, just not right. Obviously somethings working to cacluate em, its just not accurate to the original EQ method. Because at level 50, he should still be missing occasionally against mobs that are around his level. Or even a little below. Remember, he's attacking something with a defense thats much closer to his attack skill than mine.

I never said it didnt suck and that you dont get more badass as you level, If you read what I had to say properly, it could easily be assumed that you would, because you'd have an easier and easier time killing things that were one, then two, then five levels below you.