Whats with the World of Warcraft Crowd?

[Kriven]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Halfling cleric (.95), halfling warrior (.855), halfling rogue (.8645), halfling rogue (.8645), enchanter (1.1) , barbarian shaman (1.05)
vs.
Halfling cleric (.95), Troll SK (1.68), ranger (1.4), barbarian rogue (.9555), enchanter (1.1), bard (1.4)

5.684
vs.
7.486

Pros of former relative to latter group: 31% faster xp. Halfling rogue will outdamage ranger. Sham slow and melee buffs are better than bard/ench slow and melee bufs.

Pros of latter relative to former group: Tank has better aggro, more hp, more damage, SK spells, FD-pull potential, troll regen, slam. Ranger has an interesting mix of dps, tanking, and cc potential, though shouldn't really be relied on for any one of them too heavily. Barbarian rogue has better damage and slam compared to halfling rogue. Bard is tough to nail down... potentially allows ench to do massive dps with charm, significantly increases party mana and hp regen, and fills in a bunch of little gaps in CC, debuffing, buffing, and maybe DPSing.

Which group is better overall? Can you tell? Because I sure can't.

Nice math, I'd never sat down (or thought to) to compare the extremes.

Which group is better? Depends on the camp and the quantity of mobs/do they single pull/etc...but overall more than 2 hybrids (especially when playing a troll SK anyway) seems to break the exp bar.

As always though, six skilled players who want exp and not frequent AFKs will battle hard to overcome the slowdown even if there's a SK, ranger and bard all involved...if camp allows for frequent pulls.

[fischsemmel]

Originally Posted by Radiskull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You pulled the race card again... this isn't about race! I have NEVER heard anyone complain about race exp penalties. The day I see someone say "Man, this ogre exp penalty is bogus!", I'll eat my words, but until then, lets drop it. A shaman slowing for a halfling warrior vs an enchanter slowing for an ogre... I have no data to back this up, but I'd say at worst it's even, but still irrelevant since we aren't talking race.

3 blues at level 54+ is a lot of experience. And with 60 levels... 3 blues per level multiplied by 60 levels... you see where I'm going? Not to mention that you're killing slower because rogue dps > ranger dps, so kills per hour goes down, furthering the gap in experience gain. The point is, there is a reason for the discrimination. If rogues had the 40% penalties, and rangers the 10% bonus, people would invite more rangers. They bring LESS to the table (as a dps slot) and require more experience for everyone grouped with them, making them less desired.

Sorry, can't help but play the race card when the last few posts of mine started by quoting someone who played a troll shadowknight and commented that with him and a bard and a ranger in the group, the pulls were great but the xp was slow.

And actually when you consider 13% over the course of 60 levels? It depends on how you look at it. 13% over 60 levels is the difference between being a couple blues into 59 and being a freshly-dinged 60.

And rangers don't bring less to the table than rogues do. They bring less DPS to the table, yes. But so does everyone else, and yet you still don't see any groups of 6 rogues running around being successful now do you?

[fischsemmel]

Anyone else feeling the urge to make a thread titled "Please make rogues and warriors solo as well as bards"?

Lol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Kriven]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry, can't help but play the race card when the last few posts of mine started by quoting someone who played a troll shadowknight and commented that with him and a bard and a ranger in the group, the pulls were great but the xp was slow.

Play a troll SK, feel the exp penalty and the hatred and rejection that comes with it sometimes...that's all I was pointing out, and I wasn't directing it at anyone's post, just putting my experiences of doing so across.

The penalty might be shared, but to a slow moving troll SK exp bar, its like walking through mud when you add a couple more hybrids into a group with a "typical" pull rate.

Well, get that... a hybrid hates other hybrids, who'd have thought [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Radiskull]

If you think those posts were complaints about him being a troll, you are mistaken. It was about the Shadow Knight part. The OP was about not being able to get a group on a hybrid. It was not about not being able to get a group as a troll. Trolls aren't being claimed to be avoided like the plague, hybrids are.

[fischsemmel]

Originally Posted by Radiskull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think those posts were complaints about him being a troll, you are mistaken. It was about the Shadow Knight part. The OP was about not being able to get a group on a hybrid. It was not about not being able to get a group as a troll. Trolls aren't being claimed to be avoided like the plague, hybrids are.

I wasn't talking about the OP, and I specified who I was talking about. This guy:

Originally Posted by Kriven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had a troll SK here, gave up in the mid 40's... due to the vast amount of LFG time (including running around/porting to different zones to shout lfg)...with many other hybrids around I think the main fear is having 2 hybrids in a group. I've grouped with a bard and ranger before and dear god, the pulls were great but the XP penalty was a killer.

... who was talking about troll and shadowknight, not just shadowknight.




Anyways. I really think it comes down to is this. Hybrids gained utility and convenience that enabled them to function in a wider variety of situations than pure melees could. Someone decided that the price they had to pay for this was a 40% xp penalty.

Warriors and rogues pay their own price for their specialization and lack of an xp penalty in that they are not useful outside of groups. When a shadowknight who couldn't find a group was out fear kiting stuff for mediocre xp or a paladin was single-pulling undead in a dungeon or a ranger was kiting down stuff and tracking up a storm or a bard was killing an entire zone off... the warriors and rogues who couldn't find groups were sitting around doing nothing.

Where things went wrong was that some classes ended up being as desired as a warrior or a rogue in groups and also more capable of handling a variety of situations than hybrids, but they escaped without a stiff experience penalty.

And nothing is going to change any of this.

[fischsemmel]

I don't really know how this thread got this far anyways, based on where it started.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whats with the World of Warcraft Crowd?

Lol.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously, unless you are an enchanter, cleric, warrior, shaman, rogue or monk, you aren't finding a group on this server.

Exaggeration.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This min/maxing garbage didn't exist back in 1999.

Untruth.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rolling a hybrid is the most depressing thing ever here.

It is what you make it.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People will not group with you.

Another exaggeration.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With Velious not being anywhere near being released, I think hybrid exp penalties should be removed. Once you break into the 30+ level range, theres too many super twinks from high end raiding guilds that discriminate.

Random nonsense.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have had friends quit playing here because those chose hybrid and without 1 mil plat in droppables equipped, nobody wants them in their group.

Still more exaggeration.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The hybrid penalty is driving people away from playing here.

Whoa. Probably some truth here. Too bad what's way, way more true is that how close this server comes to being a classic experience is what makes any people come here in the first place.

Originally Posted by Kinat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things are barely classic here to begin with considering everyones knowledge of the game, item linking in game, etc. just nix this stupid shit.

Might as well argue that since life on earth is barely a utopian existence, considering everyone being imperfect, the internet, etc., just blow it all to hell.


8 pages of posts because of this guy's drivel.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Motec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I group with anyone. On my rogue alt I far prefer a ranger/sk tank as she's such an aggro slut. Xp is so much quicker than with a war.

this

[Kriven]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... who was talking about troll and shadowknight, not just shadowknight.

The topic was centered around the supposed "bad news" that comes with grouping with hybrids, and a suggestion that there's no groups to be had for those who roll one.

While that isn't entirely true, there is an element of slant and some who don't want a hybrid tank (madness, I know). All I was doing was relating my experience as being on the shitty end of the exp penalty, 68% as was rightly pointed out. So in fact, the bias against troll/iksar SKs is the most severe if what the OP says is true.

Allow a thread to develop, without ripping people's posts apart for the sake of it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[deener]

Having played a bard from 99-02 and playing now on p99, I can't help but reply to this thread...

- If you're looking for conversation, don't invite a good bard to the group. S/he is far too busy twisting (even in down time) to bother with much chat

- Bard dps is always underestimated. Bring 2 or more every time- I'll keep one charmed to increase dps and the others mezzed

- I think the hybrid exp penalty is totally deserved when considering our ability to solo, travel fast (in the case of bards and rangers), and the utility. However, I do see it as unfair that pure casters don't have the penalty as well since they have the same benefits. Wars, rogs, monks, clerics- give them some love.


My only gripe on not getting groups is that you should at least try out a hybrid (or anyone else) first prior to casting judgement. A druid could perform as a better healer than a cleric... don't need to draw on a ton of other comparisons.

Oh, and if anyone is actually playing p99 to race to 60, then I have to wonder...