Raiding on P1999

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by casdegere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However thus this is the problem. A GM has to be called and the spam has to be gone thru to see who tagged first in lieu of both guilds working together to ensure that they alternate the kills/looting rights without GM intervention. If I had to be called to every Trak kill to settle a dispute I wouldn't dish out anymore content either.

It's been suggested multiple times over and in multiple places that raid mobs shout the name of the first person to engage them so as to eliminate any confusion (heck, DT'ing mobs already do this), but the devs haven't gone with it.

[Nedala]

@ Everyone who wants variance removed: You were obviously not there for the few weeks when there was no first-15-on-island rule for noble dojorn. Guess what happened? For a few spawns there were 3-5 guilds "poopsocking" noble's spawnpoint because everyone knew he was going to spawn. Guess what happened each time? All guilds engaged, dojorn was down within seconds and nobody had a clue who engaged first. Besides that it makes the encounter trivial it does need GM intervention each time, and its not the least fun. So the GMs decided to make a rule so whoever gets first 15 on dojorns island would get the kill, cause there was NO WAY the fix spawn timer was going to work. Trakanon and Venril would probably be worse than that.

Live was different, live didnt have so many competing guilds, capable of raiding. This isnt live, the rules that applied there wont work here, it's not like
we didnt try.


Edit:

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's been suggested multiple times over and in multiple places that raid mobs shout the name of the first person to engage them so as to eliminate any confusion (heck, DT'ing mobs already do this), but the devs haven't gone with it.

That way you would remove the need of GM intervention, but still raiding would be no more fun at all, when it only comes down to who of the 100 people around the mob get the first hit? How much fun is that? Welcome to p99, where luck decides who gets the kill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You retort that we are not as ambitious as you and you may be right. What the Devs/Guides make guilds do requires a lot of extra work that shouldn't be necessary to hit raid targets, at least in my opinion.

In a sense, yes. In fact, the term "work" should be replaced with "devotion," as work has been used by many people to exclaim that no one else is wanting to "work" to get a single target mob. If you replace that word with devotion, I do believe that is true.

However, I do believe it is unnecessary to start a rotation or completely remove variance. I have found much dislike for the ideas of rotation with a convoluted set of rules because it no longer delineates one guild from the next. It creates a situation in which all identity is lost except by the string of letters next to your name (and even then they lose all meaning unless you're attached to the name e.g. Fires of Heaven, Transcendence (Transcendence Gaming deals in multiple games), etc.).

Instancing was EQLive's solution to complaints about competition because all rotations were player-made and not GM-enforced. When I went back to live for a brief stint I joined my old guild but found myself uninterested in making sure that I stood in x spot so i didn't wipe the guild versus what we have here which is racing to the target (whether it's actual racing across zones or just logging in) and being ready to go and not stand in x spot which would wipe the guild and basically hand the mob to the other guild(s) present. At that point I realized then that I didn't really care for my old guild despite having my beginnings there. They were like any other group of people that logged into Everquest: PlayerA is PlayerB is PlayerC. My return to the game added a PlayerD. Raiding was incredibly boring.

Here, however, there is an element of surprise and more danger than just needing to get a rez and trying again. Wiping here means that you probably lost the mob, not just time because you had to rez. There's no instancing, no rotations on mobs giving free chances at loot without some sort of danger.

I do understand that even in a rotation system the idea of handing off a mob to the next guild in the rotation if a guild wipes has been presented. In my opinion that can look great on paper but not really mean much in game. The lack of a pressure-inducing time constraint allows too lax of a raiding atmosphere and consequently no shifting of ownership of mobs. Whether or not this is true is mostly unfounded, but obviously multiple guilds are getting kills on patch days. This leads me to the notion that even in a rotation where you introduce some danger of losing a mob, it's never going to happen without some sort of pressure and consequent adaptation to said pressure. That adaptation is what creates a guild identity and makes the raiders of that guild fit in with that identity.

Without some sort of identifier I don't really care who is in TMO, TR, Vesica Dei, Divinity, Transcendence, Taken, BDA, or any other guild. All of these guilds consider themselves raid guilds and each has their own identity and style when it comes to raiding.

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no first-15-on-island rule for noble dojorn. Guess what happened? For a few spawns there were 3-5 guilds "poopsocking" noble's spawnpoint because everyone knew he was going to spawn. Guess what happened each time? All guilds engaged, dojorn was down within seconds and nobody had a clue who engaged first. Besides that it makes the encounter trivial it does need GM intervention each time, and its not the least fun. So the GMs decided to make a rule so whoever gets first 15 on dojorns island would get the kill, cause there was NO WAY the fix spawn timer was going to work.

If I remember correctly, the rule originally didn't apply because it was a non-agro mob. Even with the 15 man claim before the rule was applied, the mob was still attacked by everyone
because it was explained that it was always fair game. What's important though is what you outlined: the spawn timer was known and everyone gunned for it.

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but still raiding would be no more fun at all, when it only comes down to who of the 100 people around the mob get the first hit? How much fun is that? Welcome to p99, where luck decides who gets the kill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would prevent instances in which already engaged mobs aren't tagged by players of opposing guilds. KSing entities could then easily be banned because they'd have no reason to continue attacking if they knew who attacked first.

[Nedala]

Oh i agree the shout message is a good idea in general, but i dont think removing variance would work, shout message or not.

[Mcbard]

Originally Posted by anthony210 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Less fun? Perhaps. But it would be classic and give any guild there atleast a shot at getting the kill. Unlike now where if you are not camped out at the boss ready to log in soon as you get a batphone you are not going to kill shit unless you get lucky on a patch day respawn. Why should people be forced to camp out their main characters at a spawn point? Why cant we all just know when the boss is going to spawn like it was in classic so we can show up at that time?

The reason spawn variance was put in almost a year ago was because we had guilds sitting on spawn points over 24 hours in advance and using server rules to claim the spawn. Instead of simply changing the server rules to allow for FTE regardless of how long your guild has been sitting there, the developers decided to put in spawn variance. Which totally screwed over any smaller guilds from attempting to compete with larger more hardcore guilds.

If you want to kill something show up at a raid boss when its due to spawn and you will have a shot at FTE.

I would think that part of the thought process behind making the windows so long is so that not everyone would be trying to shit all over every mob every time the window was open, but that only a select few would. I could be wrong, but I'm sure there is a reason some windows are 4days long.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Without some sort of identifier I don't really care who is in TMO, TR, Vesica Dei, Divinity, Transcendence, Taken, BDA, or any other guild. All of these guilds consider themselves raid guilds and each has their own identity and style when it comes to raiding.

Who really cares that each guild is special like a snowflake; The devs have taken notice of the things that are going on and have deemed it not worthy of the next raid experience.

If you guys don't want to grow up and share then you won't get the next steps you've been preparing for.

[Mcbard]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's been suggested multiple times over and in multiple places that raid mobs shout the name of the first person to engage them so as to eliminate any confusion (heck, DT'ing mobs already do this), but the devs haven't gone with it.

Being DT'd does not earn you FTE however, it is whoever is on the agro list after the person who got DT'd. Ask the people at Yale about that one. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who really cares that each guild is special like a snowflake; The devs have taken notice of the things that are going on and have deemed it not worthy of the next raid experience.

If you guys don't want to grow up and share then you won't get the next steps you've been preparing for.

I supported a solution that would've fixed this entire ordeal ages ago. Obviously no one was backing down but it did provide a simple way to police ourselves. It was never implemented.

McBard: He's referring to the idea that a shout would occur once a hate list would be initiated. The DT'd individual would be all on his/her lonesome on one hate list and the next person to tag would be on the actual hate list that resulted in a raid engaegment. Non DTing mobs and DTing mobs alike would have an agro shout. DTing mobs would have a DT shout/agro shout and then another agro shout. This exactly follows how the rights to a mob are determined on this server but the agro shout would immediately indicate who had claim to it, and all other guilds would back off to allow the guild to kill it or wipe.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

The problem is Aadill this is the only emu classic server. We have a limited number of players. You could get your wish sooner then later about being able to identify when you're down to one or two guilds. It reminds of me playing a single player rpg where you stack all your characters with all the best gear. yay?

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is Aadill this is the only emu classic server. We have a limited number of players. You could get your wish sooner then later about being able to identify when you're down to one or two guilds. It reminds of me playing a single player rpg where you stack all your characters with all the best gear. yay?

I understand what you are saying but I'm pointing out pretty much any hardcore raider's view. People want to be the best and are working to make that happen. In your single player rpg do you give your opponents the same gear as you?