Bob's Perfect World- A wall of text regarding the raid scene on P99

[citizen1080]

Perhaps the best way would be to have Someone on the staff post a poll for the entire server. Leave it up for a month. Have the top 3-4 ideas for a new Ruleset for raiding as the old one obviously is not working well. No account that is less than a month old may vote and the outcome will be reviewed by staff and implemented within X amount of time. The entire server would be able to vote on how they want it handled. No one guild has a membership big enough to swing the vote in a direction the server disagrees with.

This would

A. Fix current issues

B. Put the responsibility on the people. If they vote one way and it turns out to not work the staff and just point the finger back at us and say "You asked for it"

As we all know there are MANY versions of classic EQ as far as raiding is concerned. We have used one of them on this server and it is simply not working. I do not see why we can not try one of the many others that evolved over the years on EQ servers.

[Silentone]

I dont agree with that at all, its always been the case that the top end guilds have the most dedicated people and make up a smaller precentage of the server. Putting the choice of how mobs are raided into the casual players hands is just plain silly. I mean why dont we just all hold hands kill the dragons and hand out loot to everyone who is online at the time regardless of level and guild. You talk about guild rotation..well what would stop random non-raiding guild A B C D from wanting in on a Dragon rotation. Hell why cant people who dont want to be a part of a guild have a open slot for "open raid night" in the rotation. This stuff just makes me laugh, we play this game for the competition, its the one thing that sets itself appart from other MMO's that are all running on instance raids. I dont see how your logic allows there to be a rotation for guild A B C D but not the other 100 guilds on the server, maybe a few guidls want to get together and kill a raid mob ..do they get a spot in rotation? Hell whats to stop top guilds from dividing up into Guild A B C but have alts and what not in the guilds just to get 4 or 5 spots in this rotation you so badly want.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Silentone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well what would stop random non-raiding guild A B C D from wanting in on a Dragon rotation.

What's to stop them now?

1) Get 15 players in zone.
2) Get lucky and be FTE
3) Watch as TR and TMO burn Trak down as soon as it spawns.
4) Petition GM because you had FTE
5) Watch shitstorm as your guild gets handed loot based on previous precedence.

That's what it's turned into.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's to stop them now?

1) Get 15 players in zone.
2) Get lucky and be FTE
3) Watch as TR and TMO burn Trak down as soon as it spawns.
4) Petition GM because you had FTE
5) Watch shitstorm as your guild gets handed loot based on previous precedence.

That's what it's turned into.

That isn't entirely true.

The current raid scene isn't as bad as most make it out to be. I see nothing wrong with it, except for a slight few tweaks that need to be made currently.

The only thing that possibly needs a change is something that has yet to be put in or made public on how it will operate.

[Nivar Quartz]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That isn't entirely true.

The current raid scene isn't as bad as most make it out to be. I see nothing wrong with it, except for a slight few tweaks that need to be made currently.

The only thing that possibly needs a change is something that has yet to be put in or made public on how it will operate.

There's no discussion here, just lawyering and people that like to see themselves type.

Also to Stealin, noone really cares about the Vp topic your repeating in basicly every reply, its been explained more than once to you in this thread.

[Gmal]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's to stop them now?

1) Get 15 players in zone.
2) Get lucky and be FTE
3) Watch as TR and TMO burn Trak down as soon as it spawns.
4) Petition GM because you had FTE
5) Watch shitstorm as your guild gets handed loot based on previous precedence.

That's what it's turned into.

This is incorrect. The rules state that you need to have a raid force capable of taking down mob in question for FTE to apply.

Even if your FTE and you dont have the force required to burn down said mob we will just watch you give it a good quarterback effort and res you after we have distributed the loot. If by chance you can take down Trak with 15 players we will give you mad props =-)

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Silentone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont agree with that at all, its always been the case that the top end guilds have the most dedicated people and make up a smaller precentage of the server. Putting the choice of how mobs are raided into the casual players hands is just plain silly. I mean why dont we just all hold hands kill the dragons and hand out loot to everyone who is online at the time regardless of level and guild. You talk about guild rotation..well what would stop random non-raiding guild A B C D from wanting in on a Dragon rotation. Hell why cant people who dont want to be a part of a guild have a open slot for "open raid night" in the rotation. This stuff just makes me laugh, we play this game for the competition, its the one thing that sets itself appart from other MMO's that are all running on instance raids. I dont see how your logic allows there to be a rotation for guild A B C D but not the other 100 guilds on the server, maybe a few guidls want to get together and kill a raid mob ..do they get a spot in rotation? Hell whats to stop top guilds from dividing up into Guild A B C but have alts and what not in the guilds just to get 4 or 5 spots in this rotation you so badly want.

Earlier in this thread I suggested something that solves all of this and is still competitive. I'm kind of tired of reposting it, I can understand that not everyone is going to read the whole thread, but so far no one's responded and I thought it was a very good idea.

That isn't entirely true.

The current raid scene isn't as bad as most make it out to be. I see nothing wrong with it, except for a slight few tweaks that need to be made currently.

The only thing that possibly needs a change is something that has yet to be put in or made public on how it will operate.

Yeah, nothing's wrong except for the fact that 1/3 of the raid capable guilds on this server are getting over 95% of the mobs, almost entirely because they have people willing to waste their time tracking/poopsocking for absurd amounts of time. That's kind of a high entry cost to be a "hardcore raider" on this server, and certainly not what people expected when they signed up for a "Classic" server.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, nothing's wrong except for the fact that 1/3 of the raid capable guilds on this server are getting over 95% of the mobs, almost entirely because they have people willing to waste their time tracking/poopsocking for absurd amounts of time. That's kind of a high entry cost to be a "hardcore raider" on this server, and certainly not what people expected when they signed up for a "Classic" server.

If you signed up for classic EQ, and expected to reap high-end rewards without dedicating an exorbitant amount of time to it... I don't believe you actually played pre-Luclin EQ.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you signed up for classic EQ, and expected to reap high-end rewards without dedicating an exorbitant amount of time to it... I don't believe you actually played pre-Luclin EQ.

This is a red herring. Of course I expect to have to devote lots of time to the game (like hundreds of hours of grinding), but the amount of time you have to devote on this server to be a hardcore raider is absurdly longer than what was required in classic. It doesn't matter if the time dedication was a lot in classic, what matters is that the dedication required is unfairly greater on this server.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the amount of time you have to devote on this server to be a hardcore raider is absurdly longer than what was required in classic. It doesn't matter if the time dedication was a lot in classic, what matters is that the dedication required is unfairly greater on this server.

I don't quite understand what's "unfair" about the situation, at least with regards to what's been discussed in this thread. If you want the windows shortened, you should advocate for that directly, but it's tangential to Bob's suggsted lasseiz-fair raiding ruleset.

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing is, it would make sense for the top guilds to agree to a rotation because they'd get more mobs per minute that they spend playing the game, and would probably have more time to enjoy the game, level their alts, or just go outside.

This goes straight back to game the Game Theory we were discussing earlier. If Guild A and Guild B agree to a 50/50 rotation, but there are no in-game consequences for breaking the rotation, it's not hard to figure out what the Nash Equilibrium of the system is: No rotation.

I can only think of two possible changes that would make agreeing to a rotation the dominant strategy: GM enforcement, and extreme time-commitment in VP, such that competing for other mobs is no longer possible.