Item loot from a casual players perspective.

[Yukahwa]

Unfortunately that would really mean there isn't a lot of incentive to turn the book in, and no one would until they were done grinding and at that point..why turn it in since no one else has and by that level you have a lot to lose by turning it in.

I agree with nilbog except for the bagged items. I think that one can imagine bagged items are like items stashed in random places like bushes while someone runs away like a coward. Just pretend the items are hidden and not simply in the lol..8 backpacks a person carries.

I played on rallos zek too and I wish everyone could have. Actually needing to remain vigilant while playing a game was just a blast. Hunting twinks was a lot of fun too. For me, a server with PVP and no item loot is PVE with the added inconvenience of sometimes getting killed when you are leveling up. The only benefit is that raid guilds can police themselves by killing eachother.

And at raid level you will be getting into a good selection of no drop gear so item loot becomes less of an issue for all of you PVE oriented guys that don't want item loot. PVP levels 1-40 just isn't any fun for a non twink when you are forced to engage twinks that you can never punish by ganging up and taking their gear. Think about it.

[Buhbuh]

This is still a debate?

Look, both sides have legitimate pros and cons. I could go either way. The only thing that stops me, along with almost everyone else that has played VZTZ, is having tested item loot once before and watching it fail monumentally.

I will give Bardalicious that this server is different from VZTZ. But if we're both willing to concede that, there should be no problem in conceding that this server is also going to be entirely different from the way RZ was.

The community will not act in the same way that a community did 11 years ago. There may be an anti-PK or roleplaying guild, but it doesn't mean that it will endure or even be remotely relevant or parallel to this utopic sort of RZ nostalgia you're admonishing the GM's to go through with.

I think (I don't know for sure) that it has been pretty well laid out by popular opinion that an 8+/- level range is what most people want to see. Not everyone does, but I'd say most-- at least for the sake of argument. The rules are still probably a toss up between player made/ minor GM intervention in severe cases.

But take into account what item loot means for the entire form (not to mention the population) of a server being completely different, more experienced, and more savvy to the game's mechanics. What does that mean?

Simply put, it means that as much as you would like to see an RZ-esque server functioning the same way that RZ did, it will never happen. There's way, way too many variables to consider and reconsider after a decade has passed.

How does item loot effect people with a higher level range than RZ had? With no rules, what stops a player from training another player as a means to help the attacker get the kill shot quickly, in order to get loot? What other potential exploits aren't you looking at that you and I both know will be found and exploited without mercy if found? What if a player is killed, LnS is granted, and mid-looting they're steamrolled again (i.e. being deceived and losing more loot)? Is that a clause of responsibility left up to players? How will blind spell lines effect item loot with a newer, more diverse resist system? How will the resist system in general effect PvP on a grand scale? Will another class outshine another with ease? Do some classes not sharing the same amount of risk in PvP as other classes pose a problem with item loot? Are mages with a stack of malachite sharing the same risk as a fully geared Rogue with haste?

Basically, are there flaws and inherent exploits no matter how you look at item loot?

I understand that you, personally, are probably okay and have come to terms or answered most of those questions for yourself. And that's fine. You are allowed to voice your opinion. I would love item loot too. But I'm not looking at it and fervently trying to make it implemented on this server, because if we're only voicing opinions, we're leaving no room for potential downfalls or consequences.

And since both you and I, and most of the community here, are somewhat "in the know" with past boxes, I think we're somewhat obligated to create a lasting server. I'd be all about item loot if it created something even remotely sustainable. But the difference between you and I, Barda, is that I hold the population and the welfare of the server at a higher standard than my own viewpoint.

So, yeah. Argue it up about item loot. I just don't think it's something that will last. Hell, try it in beta. See how it works.

[Knuckle]

I think item loot works well if the item rate was a higher percent droprate than p99.

[Amuk]

I like character progression and farming gear, two thumbs down to playing my toons half naked.

[iRFNA]

no item loot = twinks destroying all low-mid level pvp

the only argument against item loot that isn't based on bluebie e-penis grinding is the unbalance with melee vs casters

[Amuk]

Yea lets be real that crushbone emperor room camp means everything.

[Hobby]

Item loot for worn items would be fine. Bagged items, no.

Get to wear your shit and hopefully not get blinded while trying to bag your shit...

Coin loot of course.

If you dont want to lose items, you either become damn good at bagging things or you go naked.


----

If item drops were much less rare, say instead of 18 hours of camping for FBSS its more like 2 hours, then I could see full item-loot...

But i've never been a fan of full loot. In any pvp type game, I've always favored 1 or 2 items looted.

You die, they have the choice of what to loot *not everything, just 1 or 2 items*


Anyways, regardless of what is chosen, I'll still play..atleast for awhile.

[iRFNA]

Originally Posted by Amuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea lets be real that crushbone emperor room camp means everything.

the goal of a red server is to pvp, not level up to feel better about your inadequacies

not everyone is gonna poopsock and level to the max and go on raids

[Amuk]

I like guilds wars over dragons and zone control - not about ganken my 50 hour to camp item. That is just tedious and ghey, and since I plan to be a melee really hinders what I can use in pvp. Yeah I'd love to camp FBSS more than once that is what pvp is all about, or not wear one at all - both equally awsome choices.

[Amuk]

OH GOD CAN I FEEL THE RUSH OF RISKING 20 HOURS OF MY LIFE FOR ZERO REWARD AGAINST NAKED MAGES, I HOPE SO MY BRO IRFNA.