How about...(raidmobs)

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Ennoia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only way to do that is either to merge all the raid guilds into one (boring) or have the spawns done static and people just do a mob rotation. Yea, a rotation has a lot more cons than pros for some people, but they work and cut out a LOT of the drama and makes raiding seem like less of a chore. Just think, you won't have to wake up at 3am to kill a dragon anymore!

pride. that's their single problem. they have too much invested here to ever think of themselves as on an even keel as anyone else and need that fart-sniffing because every time loot drops they get to wank off to how awesome they are compared to everyone else. It's the attitude that has to change, because regardless of what the rules are there will always be assholes leading the charge and creating problems for the GMs and the rest of the community

Loke, the problem has been around since FTE hit, and both you and i know and SAW THIS COMING. Soon as both you and i saw "15 man sitting in aggro radius" we knew right away it wasn't fte but modified poopsock that will eventually lead to problems. the main problem is that shitty attitude you guys have that just won't go away because the rules may change but your approach to p99 simply won't.

Delete it all until they can prove they can get along with each other, then you can worry about changing the raid rules.

[JenJen]

I fail to understand why rotation isnt considered appealing? or is VP not rotationable?

[tekniq]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh, please. You could hit up EC, assemble 30+ randoms and go kill Trak. Whatever the tag, as long as they had levels and some resist gear.

If you're saying no one else is even remotely willing to go through the poopsocking tedium, then yeah, in that sense : no one else is 'taking on' Trak.

precisely...

[Skope]

btw, i like how you still ignore the rest of my posts that have validity in order to drive home a single point you disagree with. You're probably the best on the entire server in this respect. You have an incredible talent in keeping quiet about things you hate within your own guild by not saying a word even if you agree with some of my points. I'm not being snotty when i say this, i mean it quite genuinely

I still <3 you, btw, but I meant what i said. I've dealt with almost all of your officers and lots of your members in the time i've been here and have only come across a couple i can actually have a casual conversation with in tells, and oddly enough you're probably one of them =P

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loke, the problem has been around since FTE hit, and both you and i know and SAW THIS COMING. Soon as both you and i saw "15 man sitting in aggro radius" we knew right away it wasn't fte but modified poopsock that will eventually lead to problems. the main problem is that shitty attitude you guys have that just won't go away because the rules may change but your approach to p99 simply won't.

I dont understand why a full variance isn't a solution. If no one knows when any of the mobs are going to spawn, there cannot be any poopsocking. 7 day spawns are put on a full 14 day variance so as to even out to an average of 1 per week. After a mob is killed it can spawn anywhere from instantly, to 14 days later (similar, but different time frame for 3 day mobs obviously). How would that not be a solution to the problem?

I understand there is a problem with the raid system, I just get frustrated when someone is trying to provide a solution and all we get is:"there isn't a problem!" or "why are you just bringing this up now?" or shit like that. a) there is a problem and b) we're bringing it up now because before now there wasn't a problem (i.e. the server staff didn't come to us asking us to find a solution to all the drama)

If you're not contributing to the solution, you're part of the problem, and need to gtfo. We need to stop bickering about who wants what and for what reasons - the simple fact is that there is a problem with the current raid system as deemed by Uthgaard, and any accusations as to certain guild's motivations right now are just a moot point that is completely counter-productive.

So yea...

[tekniq]

i'm tellin you guys. GMs should spawn ALL mobs at once so everyone will have a chance to get their players, strategize on importance and mobilize to get the most targets for theday.

[Skope]

Loke, you understand that whatever the rules are (and there have been many) the two guilds (and in my eyes you'll always be just 2 guilds) have always had that shitty approach that has only festered and created more problems, regardless of what the raid rules are, right? That's why I'm saying it's dickheads leading the charge, and a quick glance at the names for anyone who's been here long enough only goes to show that. you're not one of them, so quit acting like one. instead, try to explain to both sides that they need to take a softer approach, otherwise things won't change.

You MUST understand that from the GMs perspective they want to see your can handle the shit on your own before they start changing the rules for the better. The way the server's history is, though, it isn't until shit really hits the fan that the GMs even notice and that the community as a whole complains to a point that there must be change. The first thing to consider for them is "will it require more or less work?" and a 7-day variance still doesn't fix the play nice issue, but it will partially cure poopsock (depending on what spawns and when), but it'll also introduce quite a nice reason to SEQ on those guild trackers. In b4 new IP exemptions. in my opinion, a massive variance does nothing to fix the real problem.

Btw, you talking to me about changing the raid rules is the epitome of preaching to the choir. I'm not the one you need to convince here, I've been convinced since last year. where the hell were you?

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loke, you understand that whatever the rules are (and there have been many) the two guilds (and in my eyes you'll always be just 2 guilds) have always had that shitty approach that has only festered and created more problems, regardless of what the raid rules are, right?

History would indicate that you're right in this statement, however, I feel that isn't a justification to not try something new. If something isn't working, why keep doing it? I'm not saying a 100% variance would fix every problem on the server, but does anyone honestly think it could make it any worse?

As far as where I've been - I've been pushing a 100% variance since like spring of 2010 when I was with DA and myself, Tullian (who was with WI at the time) and someone from IB (can't remember who, Ektar maybe?) were all discussing it. I know that you've been trying to push to have the variance removed completely, and while I don't think that will solve any problems (I actually think it would cause more since it would just include more guilds in on the drama) - I'd fully support trying it out for a few weeks. All I'm saying is for people to claim there isn't a problem is asinine and counter productive. We need to stop pointing fingers, we need to stop playing this stupid blame game and just come up with a solution.

[Skope]

yea, and why change or modify any rules at all until you can prove you guys can handle working out problems on your own? changing the rules and keeping that shitty behavior does nothing about the shitty behavior. and it's not the rules that cause the problems, as you just said, but it's that shitty behavior.

Like i said, I've dealt with your assholes. It's hard to negotiate when the other end isn't even responding to tells. ya dig?

you shouldn't be having this conversation with me, but the officers of the 2 guilds everybody's sick of. now ask yourself why the GMs are sick of you two? do you really think changing the rules fixes that?

Like i said, delete it all until they grow up.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yea, and why change or modify any rules at all until you can prove you guys can handle working out problems on your own?

That is what we're trying to do. By proposing new raid systems (like variance, or Kinsawt's anti-poopsocking, no going past door idea). I'm not saying either of these ideas are the solution, but at least they're ideas that someone is putting out there. People coming in here and being like "TR is crying" contributes nothing. I have yet to see TMO provide an idea that isn't "Lets poopsock on the ledge as opposed to on the spawn point" - which is basically the same thing.

All I'm saying is that no one should be jumping down anyone's throat for providing a new idea - especially when that is exactly what the server staff and even you yourself skope, is asking for. I called you dumb because you were essentially saying that "the top guilds are greedy and that is the only reason they're bringing it up now".. firstly that isn't true (see: GMs requesting a solution, hence us bringing it up now) and secondly, even it if were true, how does saying it in this thread help anything?

I don't have any authorization from anyone in my guild to be a spokesperson or anything, but just on a person to person level - if anyone in TMO seriously has an idea they'd like to present on how to end poopsocking (not just move it to a different location) I'd be THRILLED to hear it and assuming it actually was a viable solution, I'd have no problem using what extremely limited influence I have in TR to endorse it.

I don't care where the solution comes from or even what it really is - I just get frustrated when 95% of the posts are just hating on an idea but providing none of their own.