Depressing news

[Infectious]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not a THJ crowd member, but you are just wrong here buddy. The popularity of THJ is what caused the lawsuit. The monetization was just legal ammo, if you cant see that you simply do not understand how this shit works, or you are just being intentionally disingenuous out of anger for what's happening and wanting to point the finger and probably a die hard anti-RMT guy. Its pointed in the right direction, but at the wrong thing. This is THJs fault, but its not because of RMT.

DBG was bleeding players to THJ. They knew it. The cash shop literally just gave them easy legal ammo for a quick judicial decision for a preliminary injunction. Even if THJ didn't make any money at all and there was no cash shop, they are STILL at the very least issuing a C&D in that scenario, and then moving on to lawsuit if the C&D is not abided; a lawsuit they still win in that scenario EVEN if there was no RMT going on, because DBG was able to prove with quarterly reports on revenue that they were bleeding money and subscriptions while THJs active player numbers were going up.

If DBG was smart they would go at EQ emu and just set it up so people host emu servers on their platform and collect a cut. Who is running things over there lol

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not a THJ crowd member, but you are just wrong here buddy. The popularity of THJ is what caused the lawsuit. The monetization was just legal ammo, if you cant see that you simply do not understand how this shit works, or you are just being intentionally disingenuous out of anger for what's happening and wanting to point the finger and probably a die hard anti-RMT guy. Its pointed in the right direction, but at the wrong thing. This is THJs fault, but its not because of RMT.

DBG was bleeding players to THJ. They knew it. The cash shop literally just gave them easy legal ammo for a quick judicial decision for a preliminary injunction. Even if THJ didn't make any money at all and there was no cash shop, they are STILL at the very least issuing a C&D in that scenario, and then moving on to lawsuit if the C&D is not abided; a lawsuit they still win in that scenario EVEN if there was no RMT going on, because DBG was able to prove with quarterly reports on revenue that they were bleeding money and subscriptions while THJs active player numbers were going up.

I mean to be clear an IP owner doesn't need "easy legal ammo" to enforce their IP. They can get an injunction whenever they want.

The one thing I think that goes against the population argument is that when Green launched there were over 2,000 people on the server and Daybreak didn't try to pull any shenanigans to try to revoke the agreement. Quarm has had a lot of people on it too, and Daybreak just asked them to remove certain custom content and agree not to go past a certain expansion (IIRC). They seem to understand there is a certain amount of goodwill/PR by allowing emulated servers to exist, but they have historically had a problem if they think you're going to try and monetize it.

[Bones]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean to be clear an IP owner doesn't need "easy legal ammo" to enforce their IP. They can get an injunction whenever they want.

The one thing I think that goes against the population argument is that when Green launched there were over 2,000 people on the server and Daybreak didn't try to pull any shenanigans to try to revoke the agreement. Quarm has had a lot of people on it too, and Daybreak just asked them to remove certain custom content and agree not to go past a certain expansion (IIRC). They seem to understand there is a certain amount of goodwill/PR by allowing emulated servers to exist, but they have historically had a problem if they think you're going to try and monetize it.

You have valid points, but DBG has had multiple leadership changeovers since P99's peak who were more friendly toward the EQemu and p99 communities. This is fairly well known. DBG wasnt bought out until 2020 by EG7. Smedly left in 2015, was replaced, and his replacement was gone in 2016. I mean its really not the same situation. Quarm and P99 at the peakest of peaks didnt have anywhere near the same pop as THJs peak and it attracted different crowds. THJ was pulling directly from retail players, where as P99 and Quarm and any other more classic style iteration have only been attractive toward a niche crowd of old school EQ lovers who havent touched retail EQ in a long time. They saw P99 and Quarm or even Al'Kabor was not pulling their players away or affecting their revenue. The whole argument that monetizing it suddenly is a problem just falls flat to me. Why would the company suddenly care if someone else is profiting if its not affecting their revenue at all? Seems like being petty/spiteful more than "protecting their IP". Doesn't make sense, which means it must have been affecting their revenue more than them just being upset someone else is making money.

I want to be clear im not trying to justify their cash shop or making tons of money off THJ, I just outright reject the narrative that it was mainly because of that reason. The P99 community has been vehemently opposed to RMT since the start, and its ingrained in the culture, so when they see THJ getting shut down and one of the key differences is that they monetized it, the players here want to assume that's the reason because of their deeply seeded hatred of RMT. They a corporation, they are calculated. They arent going to stir the pot just out of spite. They could clearly see THJ was affecting their revenue, it was being advertised ALL over the place with multiple EQ content creators on youtube and other social media gushing over THJ while simultaneously trashing DBG for inferior product.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quarm and P99 at the peakest of peaks didnt have anywhere near the same pop as THJs peak

We don't know that though? THJ's active log in peak record of ~4k was decently higher than P99's peak (which I think was a little above ~3k as the most ever), but typically averaged ~1,700 users online. We know THJ had 30,000 accounts created, but we don't have insight into how many of those were actual unique users vs additional accounts created by one user. We also don't know how many total accounts P99 has (and again, the same problem would occur where we don't know how many are truly a unique player rather than multiple accounts tied to one player).

[QUOTE=Bones;3765322]Why would the company suddenly care if someone else is profiting if its not affecting their revenue at all?/QUOTE]

I'm confused by this question. Basically every company doesn't like it when someone is profiting off their IP. The theory (whether accurate or not) being that if someone is spending money on your IP via that unauthorized third party's monetization of it, then it's money you might otherwise see as the IP holder that you're now losing. Every company looks at it this way. Monetizing another company's IP is basically a guaranteed way to get sued by the IP holder...especially in the gaming industry.

It's why for example mods, even complete overhaul mods, are allowed to exist for games but if you try and monetize it the studio shuts you down.

[sammoHung]

Originally Posted by Bones [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would the company suddenly care if someone else is profiting if its not affecting their revenue at all? .

That's how IP works. Only you can profit off of your legally held IP.

I agree with your points, though. But I do think once Daybreak legal saw that THJ was operating a marketplace, their tune might have changed from sending a Cease and Desist to outright lawsuit.

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You must literally have issues because in no post did I ever say that lol. I legit think you have a learning disability (and to be clear, I don't mean that as an insult, you just literally seem unable to understand words and statements).

You litreally argued that P99 and Quarm had just as many users as P99 that is the point of this entire conversation.

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The one thing I think that goes against the population argument is that when Green launched there were over 2,000 people on the server and Daybreak didn't try to pull any shenanigans to try to revoke the agreement. Quarm has had a lot of people on it too.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You litreally argued that P99 and Quarm had just as many users as P99 that is the point of this entire conversation.

it's weird that you quoted that specific sentence because, yet again, nowhere in that sentence did I say THJ and P99 had the same amount of users.

I said what goes against the argument that Daybreak was specifically concerned about THJ having thousands of people on it is that they don't care about other emulators with thousands of people on them, as long as you don't try to monetize the server. Again, you have a disability if you read what I said and think I said THJ and P99 have the same number of users lol.

But at any rate, you say you're only ranting about THJ because I'm talking to you about it. So how about this, right now we both stop talking about THJ. That means a 100% stop. You don't talk to anyone else about THJ, you don't make whiney posts about THJ, etc. If you agree, let me know and we both stop right now.

[shovelquest]

Loramin. At this point I have no fucking clue what you're trying to figure out.

MY point is that NOST was highly against monetization and it was shut down.

You brought up Elysium.

Elysium was Nost's successor, used Nost's assets, was highly monetized, had theft within its own management, and it never got shut down.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin. At this point I have no fucking clue what you're trying to figure out.

MY point is that NOST was highly against monetization and it was shut down.

You brought up Elysium.

Elysium was Nost's successor, used Nost's assets, was highly monetized, had theft within its own management, and it never got shut down.

Ok, now we've found our "tomato, tomato" problem:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You originally said it was shut down, and it was ... but it was restarted a month after that "implosion", just under a new name. You call that a server that was "shut down" or "imploded", while I call it a server that temporarily went down, but then came back up and continued running for many years after.

Tomato, tomato.

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, now we've found our "tomato, tomato" problem:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You originally said it was shut down, and it was ... but it was restarted a month after that "implosion", just under a new name. You call that a server that was "shut down" or "imploded", while I call it a server that temporarily went down, but then came back up and continued running for many years after.

Tomato, tomato.

Elysium was shut down by its own staff. You miss understood that as me suggesting it was officially shut down. That was never the case.

Let me be clear:It was not "shut down" as a result of blizzard.

It did however implode and the management had to reorganize because the one collecting donations was literally embezzling money out of the donations into their pocket.

My argument, is and remains: Nost was shut down and it had ZERO monitization and the same policy on RMT that P99 has.

Elysium was never shut down by blizzard, even though it had so much corruption and monetization it IMPLODED.

There is no tomato tomato, I was talking about NOST.. You brought up Elysium,. and I said, even More so to my point:

Elysium was a corrupt donation and RMT server, and never got "shut down" by blizzard.

Because it was small enough to not affect the wow market. However Nost's incredible popularity, did.

Just like THJ.