Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Boiled down to the basics, this is a thread written by a solo enchanter who wants special rules for an expensive item camp because competing for it is too difficult.

WHAT "competition"?? There is no fucking competition with p99 ruleset. Whoever is there simply owns the camp.

[Ssouky]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The core issue here isn’t vastly different from the DS camp situation. Specific groups are monopolizing DS, creating a bottleneck by permanently camping it and selling the item. This monopolization is similar to the unfair advantages that led to roll systems in other camps.

Riot monopolizing Vulak/Doze and creating a bottleneck towards my BiS Artist challenge by permanently organizing to kill it themselves is an unfair advantage that leads to... nothing ?

Do what you got to do to get what you want to get. Join them. I don't really agree with the URN system but at least they did something about the camp. They organized, they now have it. Perfect or not, they did something.

I don't understand why, because you can't have your thing because the game is scarce and doesn't comply with your wants (there is no NEED in EQ...), the system should be changed.

You would have been miserable during TMO time with no access to your epic. The good thing is you probably could have bought it with $$$...

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Ssouky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Riot monopolizing Vulak/Doze and creating a bottleneck towards my BiS Artist challenge by permanently organizing to kill it themselves is an unfair advantage that leads to... nothing ?

Do what you got to do to get what you want to get. Join them. I don't really agree with the URN system but at least they did something about the camp. They organized, they now have it. Perfect or not, they did something.

I don't understand why, because you can't have your thing because the game is scarce and doesn't comply with your wants (there is no NEED in EQ...), the system should be changed.

You would have been miserable during TMO time with no access to your epic. The good thing is you probably could have bought it with $$$...

Thanks for you feedback, I'm trying to improve the community as a whole to have a fair shot at these things, not just for my own advantage (that's why I've been meticulously keeping track of it). Thank you again.

[Toxigen]

tough luck get fucked

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tough luck get fucked

This request pertains to the green server, not blue (as it seems you're mostly blue focused). Your comment doesn't provide any constructive feedback or contribute to the discussion. If you have useful input to offer, feel free

[Ruien]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This request pertains to the green server, not blue (as it seems you're mostly blue focused).

We are sharing the blue URN system because it's the best solution to the problem you are trying to solve. There is no reason you could not implement it on green.

This matters to the blue server as well, because if green starts doing a roll, then someone will say "blue should be a roll too - just look at green". Do not call any system which invites anyone to join "elitist".

We are against changing DS to a /random roll, we have good reasons to be against it, and we have communicated those reasons effectively and respectfully. Drop the discussion of changing DS to a /random roll and focus instead on implementing an URN discord like Blue has.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Ruien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are sharing the blue URN system because it's the best solution to the problem you are trying to solve. There is no reason you could not implement it on green.

This matters to the blue server as well, because if green starts doing a roll, then someone will say "blue should be a roll too - just look at green". Do not call any system which invites anyone to join "elitist".

We are against changing DS to a /random roll, we have good reasons to be against it, and we have communicated those reasons effectively and respectfully. Drop the discussion of changing DS to a /random roll and focus instead on implementing an URN discord like Blue has.

Discussion will continue as long as people are providing input and considering changes. While the URN discord on Blue has been suggested, it seems to have its own set of issues based on what I've read. Implementing a /random roll system aligns with other adjustments in the quest line, like the changes made for shady/angry.

Here is the core set of issues I've found from blue server with their URN implementation:

1. Urn cost remains high
2. Guilds are pemanently farming the item still
3. Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server (as it relates to guilds swapping players in and out to keep it locked)

[loramin]

In what world would any of these not be true?

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Urn cost remains high

Urn costs will remain high no matter what system you implement. It has nothing to do with the system, and everything to do with the fact that only one urn enters the server every few days ... but a lot more players than that who want it. Supply and demand.

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Guilds are pemanently farming the item still

"Guilds" will "permanently farm" the item whatever the system, because players at the high-end tend to be guilded, and guilded players (like non-guilded players) want loot for their character. But this isn't some conspiracy: it's just people playing the game.

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server (as it relates to guilds swapping players in and out to keep it locked)

This is the only point you've succeeded at making in this entire thread ... but you still haven't even tried to engage with the fact that while /list might give more opportunities to individuals, it would make things a lot harder for groups of players.

[Ruien]

Hello,

1. Urn cost remains high
2. Guilds are pemanently farming the item still
3. Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server (as it relates to guilds swapping players in and out to keep it locked)

Maybe you just don't understand how URN discord works?

Urn cost remains high
The urn cost is entirely a function of supply and demand. Angry goblin is a /random roll and the Skargus head MQ is 100k. So, /random is not going to suddenly make Urns affordable.

Guilds are pemanently farming the item still
This is patently false. We have members of ALL of the top guilds in URN discord, as well as many unguilded individuals. Working together, we can compete against farm crews and win. The blue URN discord group has gotten 90%+ of the last 50 urns. And new members are welcomed every week.

Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server
This also is patently false. Each person in the discord is a separate individual, and time spent at the camp is tracked in an "active camp" channel, with a waiting list. As soon as anyone has hit their maximum quota of hours for the day, they are automatically replaced by the next person in the replacement queue. So anyone is able to "/rep add" themselves and jump in when their turn is up. When an Urn drops, the person present with the highest number of accumulated hours gets to loot it, and their hours drop to 0. The daily maximum quota and active group size can be adjusted if needed to ensure everyone has a fair opportunity to earn.

This system is so good, equitable, and effective that it provided the firepower needed to push dedicated farm crews and give everyone a fair shot at earning their Urn.

Finally, a group of people working together killing 5 mobs every 20-minute cycle is relaxing, not "unhealthy". There's a lot of casual conversation both in group and discord, and people pop in and out according to their schedule. Conversely, a random roll kills the community - you log in, roll, and /q; It's antithetical to the community aspect that this game exists for.

[Allishia]

URN discord is the way, dkp instead of a roll so it is fair based on effort put in, not /RNG. I'm sure brool would be happy to help y'all set one up. Really fixed blue and eliminated that greedy farm crew that was shafting their own guildys too lmao. Also no need to involve csr that way, you can just out compete them