sk starting points

[Toxigen]

All these pages and INT still doesn't do shit except for the top 1% of SK players.

[Troxx]

Lune, while I applaud your efforts to educate the fool … you are wasting your breath. This is precisely how we got a 449 page thread where DSM tried to convince the whole damn server that shamans are excellent dps in a fast paced high dps group involving multiple charm pets relative to a mage. You can throw all the knowledge nuggets and spaghetti against the DSM wall but I promise nothing will stick.

DSM when confronted with anything but his own napkin math:

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And trust me, you will never (not ever) get the last word. His autism (using this in the strictly DSM-V diagnostic sense … not as an insult) mandates that he always have the final say while simultaneously proclaiming his brilliance.

We all know his modus operandi.

It’s both funny and sad at the same time.

[Toxigen]

cu fellas in 25 pages

[Crede]

Ya'll gone and done it again

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Did a quick test on Corudoth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py96jk2NflU

The test is 210 STR vs. 231 STR. I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge as my weapon. I have 34% worn haste.

Test 01 (210 STR) - 561 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,794 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 67.3 DPS
Test 02 (231 STR) - 531 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,303 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 70.25 DPS
DPS difference: ~3 DPS

Recorded highest hit with 210 STR: 250 Damage
Recorded highest hit with 231 STR: 258 Damage

Total number of 250+ Damage hits across the entire test: 11 hits
Total number of hits across the entire test: 496 hits
Percentage of hits that were max damage or above the 210 STR max damage: 2.2%

At level 60 with a ToV weapon and 34% haste, 21 STR appears to give about 3 DPS.

In the Magelo I provided earlier https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:TestIksarSK - I am using Argent Protector and Silver Chitin Hand Wraps as my Weapon + Haste item. This is to show what a lower cost setup would look like for OP.

The ratio of Argent Protector with 22% Haste (SCHW) is 1.04
The ratio of Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge with 34% Haste is 1.40
The difference in ratios is ~25%, so a level 60 with Argent Protector and 22% haste would probably be doing around 50.47 DPS on test 1 and 52.65 DPS on Test 2. The DPS difference drops to ~2.2 DPS.

You would do an additional 8000 damage per hour at level 60 with 2.2 additional DPS, assuming you are auto attacking non-stop. Realistically this number is going to be lower at lower levels, due to lower skills. It is also going to be lower because you are not killing non stop. You will be taking breaks. It is also going to be lower because Corudoth is only level 5, so my DPS was higher on him. You would maybe get 2-3 more Kobolds per hour using Lune's mob. It also looks like my guess of roughly 2% hits will be max was correct.

This isn't going to be a significant boost to your leveling process. As I have stated before, min/maxing the leveling process is a waste, because the whole point of leveling is to get to 60. Once you are there, you no longer receive any benefits from min/maxing the leveling process. If a player is casual, it doesn't matter if they stop playing at level 42 or level 43. The speed isn't relevant to them. If a player wants to get to 60, they will want the best starting stat at level 60, which is INT because it is the hardest to cap.

If you are hyper concerned about getting a few extra kills per hour while leveling, you would go Troll SK. They have much higher STR, and access to Blood Ember Clickies, which will save you more time during the leveling process than Greenmist.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did a quick test on Corudoth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py96jk2NflU

The test is 210 STR vs. 231 STR. I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge as my weapon. I have 34% worn haste.

Test 01 (210 STR) - 561 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,794 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 67.3 DPS
Test 02 (231 STR) - 531 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,303 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 70.25 DPS
DPS difference: ~3 DPS

Recorded highest hit with 210 STR: 250 Damage
Recorded highest hit with 231 STR: 258 Damage

Total number of 250+ Damage hits across the entire test: 11 hits
Total number of hits across the entire test: 496 hits
Percentage of hits that were max damage or above the 210 STR max damage: 2.2%

At level 60 with a ToV weapon, 21 STR appears to give about 3 DPS.

The ratio of Argent Protector with 22% Haste (SCHW) is 1.04
The ratio of Ancient Fire Etched Flamberge with 34% Haste is 1.40
The difference in ratios is ~25%, so a level 60 with Argent Protector and 22% haste would probably be doing around 50.47 DPS on test 1 and 52.65 DPS on Test 2. The DPS difference drops to ~2.2 DPS.

You would do an additional 8000 damage per hour at level 60, assuming you are auto attacking non-stop. Realistically this number is going to be lower at lower levels, due to lower skills. It is also going to be lower because you are not killing non stop. You will be taking breaks. I guess you would get maybe 2-4 more Kobolds per hour using Lune's mob. It also looks like my guess of roughly 2% hits will be max was correct.

This isn't going to be a significant boost to your leveling process. As I have stated before, min/maxing the leveling process is a waste, because the whole point of leveling is to get to 60. Once you are there, you no longer receive any benefits from min/maxing the leveling process. If a player is casual, it doesn't matter if they stop playing at level 42 or level 43. The speed isn't relevant to them. If a player wants to get to 60, they will want the best starting stat at level 60, which is INT because it is the hardest to cap.

If you are hyper concerned about getting a few extra kills per hour while leveling, you would go Troll SK. They have much higher STR, and access to Blood Ember Clickies, which will save you more time during the leveling process than Greenmist.

The problem here is you are using a subjective opinion to support facts about the leveling process. Just because you think the leveling process is a waste to min/max, I don't think min/maxing the leveling process is a waste. An some people just like to get to 60, then move onto another project. And as Lune mentioned, there is data to support the majority of people end up quitting hybrids in their 40s/50s. There's nothing bad about doing this. Some would argue focusing on gearing at 60 is a waste, because we are stuck in Velious, and Velious was beaten in Kunark gear. It's not like later expansions where you truly needed a certain expansion level of gear to move onto the next expansions.

While I generally agree with INT for an SK for multiple reasons, I also went Troll so I didn't have to worry about STR. Had I went DE/Erudite, STR would have been a lot more appealing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem here is you are using a subjective opinion to support facts about the leveling process. Just because you think the leveling process is a waste to min/max, I don't think min/maxing the leveling process is a waste. An some people just like to get to 60, then move onto another project. And as Lune mentioned, there is data to support the majority of people end up quitting hybrids in their 40s/50s. There's nothing bad about doing this. Some would argue focusing on gearing at 60 is a waste, because we are stuck in Velious, and Velious was beaten in Kunark gear. It's not like later expansions where you truly needed a certain expansion level of gear to move onto the next expansions.

While I generally agree with INT for an SK for multiple reasons, I also went Troll so I didn't have to worry about STR. Had I went DE/Erudite, STR would have been a lot more appealing.

I gave the facts about how much faster you would be leveling via 20 STR, which is maybe 2-3 mobs per hour. That is not going to be a highly noticeable increase in the leveling process.

It is not an opinion that the leveling process is designed to get you to max level. That is the entire point of the system.

Starting stats matter the most at level 60, because stats scale based on level. If you are the type of player who only gets to level 40, it doesn't matter where you put your starting stats.

However, Everquest is a long game. People do change their minds about a character years later. It is better to air on the side of caution and assume you will get to level 60. Worst case you don't, and it didn't matter anyway.

As I have stated before, STR is a good choice for characters that start off with no gear and no money. When Green 2.0 comes out, I would generally advise people put their points into STR, since their first character is probably going to be the plat/item farmer anyway. But OP is rolling a character on a server that is at the last P99 patch, and has multiple 60s, which means they can twink this SK. There is no good reason to put your points into STR.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.

It is not an opinion that the leveling process is designed to get you to max level. That is the entire point of the system.

The most opiniony opinion that ever was opinioned.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The most opiniony opinion that ever was opinioned.

It isn't. Every system in Everquest (and any other video game) is designed with a purpose. They aren't spontaneously generated and inserted at random.

It is factually true that the leveling system is designed to get you to max level. That doesn't mean everybody will get there, but that is it's purpose.

The only opinion here is the idea that a system designed to increase your level is not designed to increase your level.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did a quick test on Corudoth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py96jk2NflU

The test is 210 STR vs. 231 STR. I am using https://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient...ched_Flamberge as my weapon. I have 34% worn haste.

Test 01 (210 STR) - 561 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,794 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 67.3 DPS
Test 02 (231 STR) - 531 seconds to get him down to 80%. 37,303 Damage, subtracting ripostes. 70.25 DPS
DPS difference: ~3 DPS

I genuinely appreciate your effort. Seriously. No sarcasm.

But it is worth pointing out that you are a level 60 sk fighting a level 5 mob. I don’t think a leveling sk will be hunting mobs 55 levels beneath them. Your attack vs it’s defense and the level difference makes the parse a lot less relevant to the discussion at hand.

You’re a SK. You can FD. Why not go find a good, solidly blue xp mob and repeat.

Clock the time it takes you to drop it to 20%. FD and let it reset and regen up to 100. Rinse and repeat a few times at each str level. The mob being closer to your level will indeed have an greater impact on relative dps (str value vs str value) than parsing a on a level 5 mob.

If you want to make it even more relevant, take off some gear and test like 140 vs 160 strength.

Again DSM - I am very appreciative of you doing some leg work. This is a vast improvement in your behavior. It is unlike what you did (or didn’t do) in the shaman vs mage in a high dps group thread … where you never actually did/tried it … or did do it but didn’t like the results and therefore never posted your results.

Kudos where kudos are due. Please carry on!