Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Troxx]

yeah DSM you will like these parses; hovering above 100dps most fights with nerfed pets (i have no focus) and my nukes.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll load some parses tomorrow when i have time but i just got off my 60 mage in crypt/emp and average dps per mob bounced from the low end of 75dps to the high end of 157dps. Not all that different than what i told DSm was possible. I'm not sure why this is controversial.

Mages are good at what they do ... getting shit killed and fast.

So much for most underpowered class eh?

Thanks for letting me know the area. The parses will let me know your strategy and how often you can hit the high end before medding. Sadly that isn't great DPS for a level 60 caster in Seb.

In Seb I can root rot 3 mobs solo. I could easily root rot 4 mobs in a group. That means I am doing 136 DPS with DoTs. Looking at my Cliff Golems video my pet is doing about 11 DPS hasted, and JBB clicks would be another 5 DPS. In Seb JBB would get resisted less than Cliff Golems, so that could be higher. In total that means I can do 152 DPS sustained pretty consistently in an easier area like Seb. Shamans aren't even a DPS class.

Remember, I never said underpowered = bad. It just means Mages don't bring a lot to the table (which they sadly don't outside of CoTH). I wouldn't bring a Mage if that's all they can do. Shamans can output your DPS if necessary, have a decently tanky pet with Torpor, and they have a lot more utility to boot. Just bring Tolapumj Robes for Enchanter Pets since they are better than muzzles and you are good to go.

This is talking about level 60 grouping. Before Torpor/Epic Shamans are putting out lower DPS, and Mages are better.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not everyone has the Robe, it can't just be assumed.

If you are the type of person who thinks adding even 1 DPS is going to make a difference (like yourself), you are going to have a robe. They are dirt cheap and Enchanters can farm plat well. An Enchanter without a robe doesn't care about losing some DPS. Even on Green then are less than 2k.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for letting me know the area. The parses will let me know your strategy and how often you can hit the high end before medding. Sadly that isn't great DPS for a level 60 caster in Seb.

In Seb I can root rot 3 mobs solo. I could easily root rot 4 mobs in a group. That means I am doing 136 DPS with DoTs. Looking at my Cliff Golems video my pet is doing about 11 DPS hasted, and JBB clicks would be another 5 DPS. In Seb JBB would get resisted less than Cliff Golems, so that could be higher. In total that means I can do 152 DPS sustained pretty consistently in an easier area like Seb. Shamans aren't even a DPS class.

Remember, I never said underpowered = bad. It just means Mages don't bring a lot to the table (which they sadly don't outside of CoTH). I wouldn't bring a Mage if that's all they can do. Shamans can output your DPS if necessary, have a decently tanky pet with Torpor, and they have a lot more utility to boot. Just bring Tolapumj Robes for Enchanter Pets since they are better than muzzles and you are good to go.

This is talking about level 60 grouping. Before Torpor/Epic Shamans are putting out lower DPS, and Mages are better.


If you are the type of person who thinks adding even 1 DPS is going to make a difference (like yourself), you are going to have a robe. They are dirt cheap and Enchanters can farm plat well. An Enchanter without a robe doesn't care about losing some DPS. Even on Green then are less than 2k.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here. Nobody is rotting 4 mobs at a time with an enchanter group. Therefore mage single mob dps is superior. You’ll never have 4 mobs rotted long enough for shaman dps to matter in a group where you’re plowing through mobs. This is a silly statement to make in this context. You’re just highlighting what shamans can do solo with enough mobs rooted which is cool, but totally pointless in this setting and you’ll be stuck doing shit dps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here. Nobody is rotting 4 mobs at a time with an enchanter group. Therefore mage single mob dps is superior. You’ll never have 4 mobs rotted long enough for shaman dps to matter in a group where you’re plowing through mobs. This is a silly statement to make in this context. You’re just highlighting what shamans can do solo with enough mobs rooted which is cool, but totally pointless in this setting and you’ll be stuck doing shit dps.

You easily can. Have a few mobs in camp being DoTed, have Ench pets killing others. You just aren't very imaginative hehe. If DPS is your only concern, you can easily have 4 rooted in camp while Ench pets are hitting x amount of other mobs. If you are pulling that much it's easy to have all those mobs.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You easily can. Have a few mobs in camp being DoTed, have Ench pets killing others. You just aren't very imaginative hehe. If DPS is your only concern, you can easily have 4 rooted in camp while Ench pets are hitting x amount of other mobs. If you are pulling that much it's easy to have all those mobs.

You’re delusional, this won’t happen 99% of the time. You’re just showing your shaman bias hehe. You focus down one mob in < 1 min, and move onto the next.

Nobody but you will ever think shamans are better dps in a group setting than a mage, nor does anyone want to constantly deal with having 5-7 mobs and risk a wipe, and once a camp is split you won’t have that many anyway. Sorry, shamans just aren’t dps and their utility really adds nothing to a enchanter/cleric/mage composition. The shaman will likely just be sitting there clicking their jbb.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re delusional, this won’t happen 99% of the time. You’re just showing your shaman bias hehe. You focus down one mob in < 1 min, and move onto the next.

Nobody but you will ever think shamans are better dps in a group setting than a mage, nor does anyone want to constantly deal with having 5-7 mobs and risk a wipe, and once a camp is split you won’t have that many anyway. Sorry, shamans just aren’t dps and their utility really adds nothing to a enchanter/cleric/mage composition. The shaman will likely just be sitting there clicking their jbb.

I am not delusional at all. Math wise it works out fine. If it takes 45 seconds to kill a mob, I can Epic Click and DoT at least two mobs in that time before they even start fighting them lol.

The only delusion here is your assumption the game can only be played in a manner that makes Mages look good.

I am sorry, Mages really just aren't that good. My Shaman can match their DPS, and he isn't a DPS class.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is rotting 4 mobs at a time with an enchanter group. Therefore mage single mob dps is superior. You’ll never have 4 mobs rotted long enough for shaman dps to matter in a group where you’re plowing through mobs. This is a silly statement to make in this context.

If only it were just a "silly statement". DSM is always saying fallacies like this.

A Shaman especially isn't going to be root rotting like that vs summoning MOBs. It's such a dumb thing to say.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If only it were just a "silly statement". DSM is always saying fallacies like this.

A Shaman especially isn't going to be root rotting like that vs summoning MOBs. It's such a dumb thing to say.

Its not a fallacy lol. Its factual math. Again, this strategy would work perfectly fine and have the same DPS as a Mage. Sorry Mage DPS isn't that good.

We were talking about Sebilis silly, where most mobs dont summon. Either you didn't read or you are pivoting to avoid the point.

[Danth]

Multi-target damage is a different beast than single-target damage and peak damage is likewise distinct from average damage dealt. Shamans can achieve pretty good peak damage values, both multi- or single-target, but it takes them a long time to ramp it up and during that ramp-up period they're doing less so it pulls down the average. If stuff is dying relatively fast, as it will in a multi-charm group, many targets will already have a large portion of their health gone by the time the shaman can get going. Such conditions play to the strength of characters who have minimal ramp-up times.

I think we should largely ignore area-based damage in a multi-enchanter group. Such a hypothetical group is virtually always going to favor heavy usage of either lull splitting or mesmerize and will attack targets one-by-one for the most part. Sure they *could* fight multiples at a time...but in practice they're not going to. On the other hand....maybe we should dive into the theory-craft after all. Why not? We're already discussing this potential 3- or 4-enchanter group that effectively doesn't exist in practice as it is. If we're talking fairy-tales anyway I suppose we can go full on if we want to.

I still say this group adding a 4th, if they aren't adding another enchanter, would look between magician and shaman and pick a necromancer instead.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'm just showing the facts of the math. Even with 2 mobs root rotted while the Enchanters are killing with Charm pets a Shaman will hit the Mage's minimum DPS. The reality is you just like the feel of the faster single target DPS of a Mage. That doesn't make it objectively better, which is what we are discussing.

You don't need to lull split in Seb generally if your group has good resists. Just bring them in and Root/Slow. At 200 MR/FR/CR spells never land on me in Seb. DoT the extras while waiting for the Charmed pets to chew down another mob. It's easy in Seb if you are clearing most areas including Crypt/Emp.