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#1
04-20-2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
this is what he says: Back before kunark, we would go solo fire giants for the thrill. IT was damn scary because a charm break at the wrong time meant about an 80% chance of death. doubt solo means a group here... | |||
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Last edited by ziahh; 04-20-2011 at 02:57 PM..
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#3
04-19-2011, 08:33 PM
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I feel its hard to sit here for those who aren't enchanters or are just wanting a nerf with a straight face and think that what charm is now is completely fair.
I was just messing around in dreadlands and karnors (at lvl 55, with some of the best gear available) and I couldn't get a charm to last more than 30 seconds on anything, using allure or boltran's, on blue or light blue mobs. I think the biggest problem was that charm was lasting the full duration too consistently compared to live. Now, it is breaking far too consistently, far too early. Nerf charm, fine. Don't make the spell useless. I know it's really hard for the devs to mirror live and what we all remember, but anyone sitting here saying that this is the way it was is just saying that to spite some inner hatred towards the enchanter class. What charm is now currently on p99 was not live. What charm was a week ago on p99 was not live. I hope this point echos through to those who aren't listening. Also, please keep in mind that this is not 1999. We are not all noobs anymore to every zone, every spell, every mechanic, every npc.. and I could go on. Playing and knowing a class for over 10 years and learning the ways to properly do a fight and learning and reading strategies over long periods of time is going to help the average enchanter play and do things better. It took time for people to build up the balls to go and try and solo camps, learn the strats, figure things out and do it better. While this might not be a large percentage of why enchanters seemed overpowered on p99, it definitely takes up some percentage. It's probably a reason on whole why there are a lot of good players here. This is all just food for thought. I appreciate the fact that uthgaard and others are actively trying to make it a more fair, balanced, and fun game, however. I know in time they will make it right. | ||
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#4
04-20-2011, 09:58 AM
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quote
03-28-2003, 10:45 AM #124 (permalink) Goshan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 6 -1 Internets charm itsself is NOT broken. Charm is the victim of a changing environment and thusly needs to be modified to keep pace with that environment. I have been using charm for many years in much the same way I use it now. Before any expansions were released, enchanters were soloing the ghoul lord and fire giants area with charmed pets. When kunark was released, we kept pets in groups in Sebilis that doubled the entire groups experience over a 4 or 5 hour experience grind. During Velious, we could charm giants in Kael that easily netted twice the exp normally recieved in an experience group. Velious is where the environments started to change and become much more favorable to charming. Once equipment and player stats started reaching the proportions they did in velious, the risk of charm became trivial. The only problem with Velious and Luclin was that there were not many areas where charm soloing was much more effecient then grouping. So most enchanters ignored the ability. Now we have Planes of Power. There are quite a few things in this expansion that make charming too good to ignore. - Zones typically have wide open spaces where you can outrun mobs - Mobs are spaced farther apart making solo pulling trivial. - Mobs dont summon - Mobs have generally low hit points and defense.(This would seem to be the charm equalizer. But doesnt work) - Mobs have extremely high ATK and max hits. Because of these factors, the risk vs. reward is out of whack. When an enchanter can get an aa in 17mins by 2boxing a cleric outside of the group vs grouping and getting an aa every 1-2 hours, there is a problem with risk vs reward.(yes its possible. I have done it at a sustained rate). Back before kunark, we would go solo fire giants for the thrill. IT was damn scary because a charm break at the wrong time meant about an 80% chance of death. With POP, a charm break at the wrong time means you cast the following spells: wom, run til spell gems refresh, mez your pet, retarget the prey, cast root. If it knocks your rune off, pop eldritch rune and root. ZERO risk. none, nada. You have to be a complete and utter idiot to die to a situation like that. But bringing back the idea of summnoing mobs makes my skin crawl. It was a cheesy tactic. It would make charm mostly useless and not worth the time because it will only take 1 charm break to kill an enchanter. Granted, you may escape if charm breaks when no prey is in camp, but if there is prey in camp, you are dead. One wom resist on either your prey or the pet and your dead. Even if you do manage to get wom off, by the time you do, your hp will be so low, the prey will bloodlust onto you and you will be toast before you can do anything about it. If mobs were to summon again, to make charm useful, we would have to be compenstated with an instant low resist root or something. So the real problem is not charm. We have been using charm exactly how it was designed since inception. The real problem is the environment. Of the points listed above: - Wide open spaces: Changing zone designs is out the the question - mob spacing: Might be possible but would have unforseen consequences - Summoning: Think I have covered this one - Low hit points and defense: cant really do anything here. It would unbalance every other class. - Extreme ATK: ding ding ding! We have a winner. Typically enchanters haste their pets. Given a dual wielding pet with haste and a 2boxed druid for heal/snare, charming is the only way to experience!(Hello all you tactics people! And you know who you are :P). So Verants first idea with the 1% slow was a pretty good one but didnt go far enough. These mobs even without haste and dual wield, can tear through their brethren pretty easy. Especially with a botted druid or cleric to heal it. Dire Charm was limited in level for a reason. If you could of dire charmed an Illis and dual wielded and hasted it, a single enchanter could of cleared jugs in Sebilis and given the protector a run for his money. So Verant level limited Dire Charm to 47. The reason they did that was because mobs of that level and lower didnt have enough ATK to do amazing feats. The reason I use Dire Charm as an example is simple. The risk vs reward of a high level pet that was perma charmed was deemed out of whack by Verant. Basically, given the environmental variables mentioned above, you have the same situation. Mobs that are permacharmed with very little risk. Even thoguh they do break, a broken pet in wide open pop zones is pretty trivial to recharm. Given this logic, the reasonable thing to do would be to add an effect to charm that lowered a mobs melee level to a much lower level(I am thinking 57). Kind of like those ae's in the spell database that lower a characters spell casting level. This would greatly reduce their attack and defense. It would still allow us to dual wield and haste where it was allowed, but their average hit would be for much less. When charm broke, because the effect was part of the charm it would wear off and the mob would go back to its normal level. This doesnt increase the risk of charm but it lowers its overall effectiveness which is really the problem anyway. This would still allow enchanters that like to solo, to be able to solo. But you wont be able to earn AA at astronomical rates. I still think it should be faster then a group but only slighly so. MAybe 50mins or so per aa. It also addresses melee issues that an enchanter makes them somewhat worthless in groups. In conclusion, Charm does need to be modified so that a charmed pet cannot melee for many multpiles of what the best equipped melee can do. I dont see the problem with charm being in its duration or utility. Its another tool in the enchanters toolbox they can use for crowd control. I dont want it removed. The only problem I see with this are the tier 2 and 3 raid level events that take cod into account. For those tiers cod is an extremely useful tool against Agnarr, Upper cod, Bertox, Rydda, Upper Bot mini's, Mithaniel Marr, and of course Rallos Zek. Some of those encounters would need to be toned down very slightly in their intensity. Thx you ! this is how i remember it on live and to the guys that said this : quote I'm going to address point 2. There was already a link posted early and I'm not in the mood to dig it up, but the level of the charm only affects two things: 1) The maximum duration 2) The maximum level of the charmed mob Uber twinked lowbies were likely experiencing shorter charm durations due to a smaller difference in mob lvl vs. caster level. At level 20 a blue mob is at most like 5 levels lower than you. At level 50 a blue mob can be as much as 12 levels lower than you. your right on . charm atm is totally useless and broken. | ||
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Last edited by ziahh; 04-20-2011 at 10:10 AM..
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#6
04-20-2011, 12:36 PM
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i couldnt quote a quote so if that make me a retard then so be it. iam sure you could be as much retarded since you cant reead the previous page. there is a link to what i quoted...
and there is it since u cant read the previous post : http://www.fohguild.org/forums/90145-post124.html | ||
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#8
04-20-2011, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
His recollection of 'soloing' may have been before a major change to charm or after a major change to charm. His recollection could be of "that one time I was bored and all velious mobs were dead so I went to FGs/GhoulLord/ect." His recollection has a high chance of being cloudy(in his favor or against it) most likely in his favor or he would not use it in his argument of course. A cliche saying may be, "Close, but no cigar." | |||
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#9
04-21-2011, 12:56 AM
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Last combat i had :
express --------------------------------------------------------------- [Thu Apr 21 00:45:06 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:03 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:08 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:21 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:31 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:39 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:09 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:34 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:41 2011] Insufficient Mana to cast this spell! [Thu Apr 21 00:47:42 2011] You begin casting Gate. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:48 2011] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT... [Thu Apr 21 00:48:04 2011] You have entered Trakanon's Teeth. ---------------------------------------------------------------- i dont even have time Debuff and re mem spell that charm break >< Full Fight : [Thu Apr 21 00:44:59 2011] Logging to 'eqlog.txt' is now *ON*. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:02 2011] You begin casting Tashanian. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:03 2011] A sebilite golem glances nervously about. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:03 2011] Mcbard tells the guild, 'basilisks = ph' [Thu Apr 21 00:45:06 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:08 2011] Midious tells the guild, 'Nachtmystium consent' [Thu Apr 21 00:45:10 2011] Your Mesmerize spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:13 2011] Targeted (NPC): a leprous scarab [Thu Apr 21 00:45:13 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:14 2011] a sebilite golem tells you, 'Attacking a leprous scarab Master.' [Thu Apr 21 00:45:15 2011] Your Mesmerize spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:15 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 121 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:16 2011] Targeted (NPC): a sebilite golem [Thu Apr 21 00:45:16 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:17 2011] You begin casting Wonderous Rapidity. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:22 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 147 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:24 2011] A sebilite golem begins to move with wonderous rapidity. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:28 2011] Spell set Allure-Kill loaded. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:28 2011] You forget Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:28 2011] You forget Wonderous Rapidity. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:29 2011] Beginning to memorize Color Skew... [Thu Apr 21 00:45:29 2011] A sebilite golem bashes a leprous scarab for 13 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:29 2011] You have finished memorizing Color Skew. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:30 2011] Beginning to memorize Allure... [Thu Apr 21 00:45:30 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 64 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:30 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 85 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:30 2011] You have finished memorizing Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:31 2011] Woodelfw tells the guild, 'rods in back' [Thu Apr 21 00:45:31 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 147 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:32 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 116 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:34 2011] A sebilite golem kicks a leprous scarab for 3 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:35 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 116 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:37 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 105 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:37 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 74 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:38 2011] A sebilite golem kicks a leprous scarab for 4 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:41 2011] Woodelfw tells the guild, 'the other back' [Thu Apr 21 00:45:41 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 126 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:41 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 110 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:42 2011] You can't use that command right now... [Thu Apr 21 00:45:42 2011] Your spell fizzles! [Thu Apr 21 00:45:43 2011] You begin casting Color Skew. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:43 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 85 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:44 2011] Jynira tells the guild, 'i like it when they run when im holding rods [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]' [Thu Apr 21 00:45:45 2011] A leprous scarab is stunned by scintillating colors. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:45 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 136 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:46 2011] Auto attack is on. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:46 2011] You crush a leprous scarab for 2 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:47 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 131 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:47 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 74 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:48 2011] A sebilite golem kicks a leprous scarab for 7 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:48 2011] Your target is too far away, get closer! [Thu Apr 21 00:45:49 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 49 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:49 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 49 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:51 2011] Auto attack is off. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:52 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 90 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:52 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 126 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:54 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 147 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:56 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 147 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:45:57 2011] A sebilite golem kicks a leprous scarab for 14 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:00 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 105 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:00 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 74 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:02 2011] A sebilite golem bashes a leprous scarab for 11 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:02 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 85 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:03 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:06 2011] Tasloin tells the guild, 'basilisks are not ph' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:06 2011] Targeted (NPC): a sebilite golem [Thu Apr 21 00:46:06 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:08 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:11 2011] Heartbeats tells the guild, '...thats...what...she...said' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:15 2011] Targeted (NPC): a leprous scarab [Thu Apr 21 00:46:15 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:16 2011] a sebilite golem tells you, 'Attacking a leprous scarab Master.' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:16 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 100 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:16 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 105 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:16 2011] A sebilite golem kicks a leprous scarab for 8 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:18 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 116 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:20 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 79 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:20 2011] A sebilite golem bashes a leprous scarab for 12 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:21 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:22 2011] Tasloin tells the guild, 'broog can be one of the spawns sometimes' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:25 2011] Targeted (NPC): a sebilite golem [Thu Apr 21 00:46:25 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:26 2011] You begin casting Fetter. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:28 2011] Your eyes stop tingling. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:28 2011] A sebilite golem's feet adhere to the ground. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:31 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:37 2011] Targeted (NPC): a leprous scarab [Thu Apr 21 00:46:37 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:38 2011] a sebilite golem tells you, 'Attacking a leprous scarab Master.' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:38 2011] A sebilite golem kicks a leprous scarab for 3 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:39 2011] Midious tells the guild, 'anyone else need a drag?' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:39 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:40 2011] Your strength fades. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:40 2011] Heartbeats tells the guild, '<-- enchanter buffs' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:41 2011] Targeted (NPC): a sebilite golem [Thu Apr 21 00:46:41 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:43 2011] Insufficient Mana to cast this spell! [Thu Apr 21 00:46:44 2011] Insufficient Mana to cast this spell! [Thu Apr 21 00:46:46 2011] You forget Calm. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:48 2011] The pulsing energy fades. [Thu Apr 21 00:46:49 2011] Heartbeats tells the guild, 'i know mad ppl just got rezzed' [Thu Apr 21 00:46:57 2011] Targeted (NPC): a sebilite golem [Thu Apr 21 00:46:57 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:01 2011] Beginning to memorize Gate... [Thu Apr 21 00:47:01 2011] You have finished memorizing Gate. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:05 2011] Insufficient Mana to cast this spell! [Thu Apr 21 00:47:05 2011] Your spell is interrupted. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:06 2011] Insufficient Mana to cast this spell! [Thu Apr 21 00:47:09 2011] You begin casting Allure. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:16 2011] Targeted (NPC): a leprous scarab [Thu Apr 21 00:47:16 2011] Right click on the NPC to consider it. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:17 2011] a sebilite golem tells you, 'Attacking a leprous scarab Master.' [Thu Apr 21 00:47:17 2011] A sebilite golem bashes a leprous scarab for 11 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:19 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 74 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:19 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 141 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:21 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 147 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:21 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 49 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:25 2011] Myuharin beams a smile at froglok kor shaman [Thu Apr 21 00:47:25 2011] Myuharin says 'Ahhh, I feel much better now... [Thu Apr 21 00:47:26 2011] A sebilite golem bashes a leprous scarab for 13 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:27 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 131 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:32 2011] A sebilite golem hits a leprous scarab for 59 points of damage. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:33 2011] You begin casting Fetter. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:34 2011] Your Allure spell has worn off. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:35 2011] You can't use that command while casting... [Thu Apr 21 00:47:35 2011] A leprous scarab's feet adhere to the ground. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:41 2011] Insufficient Mana to cast this spell! [Thu Apr 21 00:47:41 2011] Your spell is interrupted. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:42 2011] You begin casting Gate. [Thu Apr 21 00:47:48 2011] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT... [Thu Apr 21 00:48:04 2011] You have entered Trakanon's Teeth. | ||
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Last edited by ziahh; 04-21-2011 at 01:01 AM..
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Hybrid Mode
