Good bye

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Fri Apr 05 22:46:39 2019] Baylan tells you, 'and here's the thing about those concessions'
[Fri Apr 05 22:46:41 2019] Baylan tells you, 'why should we care'
[Fri Apr 05 22:46:44 2019] Baylan tells you, 'we don't come here every week'
[Fri Apr 05 22:47:02 2019] You told Baylan, 'welp now u got 2 tried without us contesting. that the point'
[Fri Apr 05 22:48:02 2019] Baylan tells you, 'that doesn't mean anything. in a multi-guild world a concession is merely punitive, it doesn't remedy the wrong'
[Fri Apr 05 22:48:32 2019] Baylan tells you, 'but w/e man, I don't know you. if you want to know who I am, ask monrezz, or any of the guys in dmx's channel, I have hung out there for a few months now, I'm a pretty reasonable dude that's on tilt tonight'
[Fri Apr 05 22:48:40 2019] You told Baylan, 'its all we got atm, weve tried to think of another way to handle it but there isnt one'
[Fri Apr 05 22:49:16 2019] Baylan tells you, 'yeah, but this place is undeniably worse than it was a year ago'
[Fri Apr 05 22:49:20 2019] Baylan tells you, 'that's our fault'
[Fri Apr 05 22:49:46 2019] You told Baylan, 'dunno bout that, its getting there but its been nice for the past few months without GMs'
[Fri Apr 05 22:50:13 2019] Baylan tells you, 'that's your perception. I'd disagree'

Uh what? Dont put words in my mouth and have those words be complete lies.

There's something I want to follow up on. It's this:

No one I know thinks the server you've pushed for and wanted over the past year is worth anything. We're all quitting. Grats bro, you won. You get to free farm ToV after pushing out everyone. I hope that's the goal, to free-farm Vulak for 48 of the next 52 weeks.

[ajohnymous]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Fri Apr 05 22:46:39 2019] Baylan tells you, 'and here's the thing about those concessions'
[Fri Apr 05 22:46:41 2019] Baylan tells you, 'why should we care'
[Fri Apr 05 22:46:44 2019] Baylan tells you, 'we don't come here every week'
[Fri Apr 05 22:47:02 2019] You told Baylan, 'welp now u got 2 tried without us contesting. that the point'
[Fri Apr 05 22:48:02 2019] Baylan tells you, 'that doesn't mean anything. in a multi-guild world a concession is merely punitive, it doesn't remedy the wrong'
[Fri Apr 05 22:48:32 2019] Baylan tells you, 'but w/e man, I don't know you. if you want to know who I am, ask monrezz, or any of the guys in dmx's channel, I have hung out there for a few months now, I'm a pretty reasonable dude that's on tilt tonight'
[Fri Apr 05 22:48:40 2019] You told Baylan, 'its all we got atm, weve tried to think of another way to handle it but there isnt one'
[Fri Apr 05 22:49:16 2019] Baylan tells you, 'yeah, but this place is undeniably worse than it was a year ago'
[Fri Apr 05 22:49:20 2019] Baylan tells you, 'that's our fault'
[Fri Apr 05 22:49:46 2019] You told Baylan, 'dunno bout that, its getting there but its been nice for the past few months without GMs'
[Fri Apr 05 22:50:13 2019] Baylan tells you, 'that's your perception. I'd disagree'

Uh what? Dont put words in my mouth and have those words be complete lies.

It would be nice without GM’s if everyone stuck to the rules.

Conceding a mob after your boys failed a pull then immediately engaging another mob while locked into the original. Your guild acquiring an FTE while locked into another mob comes to mind. You personally claimed it’s not breaking the rules, but:


Q25: If my guild FTE's or engages a raid target, how long must we wait before FTE'ing or engaging another raid target?
A: If a guild/party FTEs or engages a raid target, they may not FTE or engage a second raid target until the first one is dead or until 30 minutes has passed (this doesn't apply to triggered spawn targets that your guild triggered/spawned). Example: If your guild is in EJ and you have Sev incoming to your raid, but then Vulak pops, you are no longer allowed to just drop the Sev pull to go for Vulak. You must either kill Sev, or wait 30 minutes before FTEing a new target. The only thing this rule does is further force guilds to prioritize which targets they go after. It does not change any other aspect of raiding on the server.


If another guild pulled that, they would have you and 4 officers down their throats and blowing up that joke of a shared Discord channel. You’re difficult to work with when you’re convinced you’re right. No one wants to spend an afternoon lawyering p99 raid rules with AM leadership

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin, there is NOTHING keeping you from raiding Temple of Veeshan. If you wanted to, you would. I feel as though you believe the top guides on this server do not have the best interest of this project at heart. And that is ridiculous. I do enjoy your wikiguides though.

There absolutely is: the unclassic "competition" system. I keep repeating it, but everyone keeps ignoring what I say, so I'l repeat it yet again.

There are three, I repeat, three levels of guilds on this server. Not "l33t hard-working uber-raiders" and "filthy lazy casuals", but:

1. guilds that aren't capable of ToV
2. guilds that can do ToV (either individually or in an alliance) and are willing and able to play the unclassic P99 competition game
3. guilds that can do ToV (either individually or in an alliance) and aren't willing and/or able to play the unclassic P99 competition game

Switching to a rotated system would by definition allow all of the guilds in group #3 , who don't currently do so, to experience ToV. In other words, it would let more of the server experience classic EverQuest content, supposedly what this server is all about. And for all this outcry over how it would destroy the server, the Sky rotation has worked awfully well for many years now.

[Kazik]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. guilds that can do ToV (either individually or in an alliance) and aren't willing and/or able to play the unclassic P99 competition game

Switching to a rotated system would by definition allow all of the guilds in group #3 , who don't currently do so, to experience ToV. In other words, it would let more of the server experience classic EverQuest content, supposedly what this server is all about. And for all this outcry over how it would destroy the server, the Sky rotation has worked awfully well for many years now.

The point of the server isn’t to give everyone BiS pixels, it’s to have a server as close to classic as possible.

Guess what? Casual players not having BiS gear is as classic as it gets.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Kazik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point of the server isn’t to give everyone BiS pixels, it’s to have a server as close to classic as possible.

Guess what? Casual players not having BiS gear is as classic as it gets.

Classic had what, three guilds max in ToV? And ToV loot was good for what, a year? Before it was replaced with much better Luclin loot, making ToV irrelevant.

Per Braknar himself there are sometimes eight guilds in ToV on P99:

[1:23 PM] Braknar: Has there ever been 8 guilds competing for ToV?

[1:24 PM] Braknar: Have you been online to watch the shit show that ensues?

And on top of all that, I don't remember first to engage messages, coth races, or any of the other B.S. that is completely unclassic but taken as a sacred part of the raid scene here.

But really, none of that has anything to do with what I'm saying. I'm not saying give BIS gear to whoever wants it, I'm saying let anyone capable of killing the dragons that drop BIS gear have a shot at killing them (ie. let people play the game we're all here to play, and let the game decide who gets what loot). After all, this is an emulated nostalgia server, and we're all here to relive our dreams of killing dragons together, right?

So try again. The current scene is so far from classic it's embarrassing that anyone even tries to use "classic" as an excuse for preserving it.

EDIT: Changed a word to "B.S." because I forgot I wasn't in RnF.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Kazik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point of the server isn’t to give everyone BiS pixels, it’s to have a server as close to classic as possible.

Guess what? Casual players not having BiS gear is as classic as it gets.

This.

That's the main thing why Loramins stance bothers me. You claim the classic experience is the top guilds rotating zones with the lower guilds. I seriously doubt that it happened during the hay day of Velious, and if it did, it was on 1/10th of the servers.

Yes, last night may have been the "Wild wild west" but I mean, we made a mistake, and we owned up to it. That's all we can do. It's not like we have scenarios going on where each guild fucks up each other's pulls all the time. Or training on purpose. That kind of thing never happens. And those are the type of things I think of, when I think "Tov is a shit show". I also don't get the whole notion that the system helps those who break the rules. If we're winning 85%, that statement basically says that we break rules all the time. I simply do NOT think that is true. But hey, I don't have access to officer chat, maybe i'm wrong. Maybe they're in there scheming on how we're going to cheat to steal dragons every week.. >.>

And Loramin, Maybe you're correct about the 3 guild tiers. I don't get your point. I said there is nothing holding YOU back from raiding in Temple of Veeshan. First of all, there are 4 guilds who basically are in there competing every week. You could easily apply to one of those guilds if you wanted to see top end content.

But wait! Of course you don't want to leave your big family guild Anonymous! However...

Lord Bob raids in ToV all the fucking time. He doesn't even have a guild, he just spams EC for rando's to show up, and he leads them as best as he can. Sometimes, he's successful in bringing in Named mobs. Which is impressive considering the infrastructure. I don't know if I've even ever seen you in the zone. Once. So forgive me if I don't feel pity to your Muh turn in tov plight.


The reality is that there aren't many options


1. Leave it as is, Let the guilds work everything out amongst themselves (Personally I think this is the best option.) Maybe form a player made rule enforcement council.

2. Root the Dragons. My opinion is that this solution would make things worse. ToV has a training problem as it is. And your pulling mobs to the safety of the zone's entrance. I can't begin to imagine the shit show that would be NToV when 4 guilds are trying to race each other to Lady M after she pops.

3. Bring back FTE races, with an hour lockout. This solution may make sense as well.


4. Class system. I never liked it. But I certainly understand why people would. Most people would just throw alts in other guilds. /shrug.


5.... idk... leave it how it is, but every 3rd Friday of the month, simpop happens where all top 4-5 guilds are not allowed to enter ToV for 24 hours.

There is no "Correct" answer. Only, which one will piss off the least amount of people. A full on rotation really kills the spirit of the game though, in my opinion. Especially considering how exaggerated all the "issues in tov" are.

Loramin. Get a crew together. Windows open next Friday. I bet Aftermath bends over backwards to try and accommodate your raid. All you have to do is follow the rules. I'd beg detox to let you have our corner if you can show up with 35 people on a Friday night.

And if you can't, you shouldn't be bitching about not being able to raid ToV.

my 2cent

[Sonark]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There absolutely is: the unclassic "competition" system. I keep repeating it, but everyone keeps ignoring what I say, so I'l repeat it yet again.

There are three, I repeat, three levels of guilds on this server. Not "l33t hard-working uber-raiders" and "filthy lazy casuals", but:

1. guilds that aren't capable of ToV
2. guilds that can do ToV (either individually or in an alliance) and are willing and able to play the unclassic P99 competition game
3. guilds that can do ToV (either individually or in an alliance) and aren't willing and/or able to play the unclassic P99 competition game

Switching to a rotated system would by definition allow all of the guilds in group #3 , who don't currently do so, to experience ToV. In other words, it would let more of the server experience classic EverQuest content, supposedly what this server is all about. And for all this outcry over how it would destroy the server, the Sky rotation has worked awfully well for many years now.

Urr jus jealous

[Gravydoo II]

you should go on joe rogan

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by Gravydoo II [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you should go on joe rogan

Agreed

[Ennewi]

Thanks for contributing all that you have to the project. Enjoy the freed up time.