cannabis as an Alternative medicine

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Known since the 1850s. There are plenty of modern studies that back it up, and I just cited the Colorado statistics from 2013. But hey, if you don't want to give your pot up that's up to you.

Like everything else you can consume:

Alle Dinge sind Gift, und nichts ist ohne Gift, allein die Dosis macht dass ein Ding kein Gift ist.
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.
—Paracelsus

That’s the basic principle of toxicology which is true of any drug, including pot. You are technically right, marijuana can be neurotoxic in chronic high amounts. With lesser amounts it’s thought to be neuroprotective. Kinda like how acetaminophen can stop a headache and fever or destroy your liver. If you swallow a bottle of Tylenol, you may die, slowly, from liver damage, therefore Tylenol is poison is not the right conclusion to make.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/91a...1ded5ae571.pdf

I don’t smoke pot btw.

[America]

Originally Posted by Muggens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I posted a reply for this in the movie thread as a testament to my askewness [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


"Thanks for making it clearer. Really rings truth.*
Happy to only smoke once in a while and stay sane"

Lots of info in here, gonna mull over it later with a lil drink and a smoke <3

haha -- I thought that post was targeted at my evening manicposts from yesterday.

I've been growing to like you, Muggens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Cecily]

Muggens is awesome.


Probably cause he smokes pot!

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/91a...1ded5ae571.pdf

So I was curious enough to read your review, but I'm not sure I agree with their conclusions. A few snippets.

The review: "CB1 receptor acting cannabinoid agonists protected hippocampal neurons from synaptically-mediated excitotoxicity" (Abood et al. 2001). Abood & co put neurons into a solution containing kainate, which triggers neuron receptors intended for the neurotransmitter glutamate, triggering the neurons into an excited state. Cannibinoids then reversed this. So cannabis can protect you from a glutamate storm but this should not be happening in a healthy brain. It's mostly when the neurons die, due to stroke (or, perhaps, smoking pot?!) that it becomes a problem.

The review: "Additionally, the role of endogenous cannabinoid system is suggested to be neuroprotective" (Guzman et al. 2001; Mechoulam et al. 2002). This one is probably the most supportive of your view, stating: "Regarding the central nervous system, most of the experimental evidence indicates that cannabinoids may protect neurons from toxic insults such as glutamaergic overstimulation, ischemia and oxidative damage. In contrast, cannabinoids induce apoptosis of glioma cells in culture and regression of malignant gliomas in vivo." Gliomas are brain cancer cells, so killing them is good.

The review: "Other synthetic cannabinoid WIN55 and 2122 administered daily (twice, 2 mg/kg) to rats increased hippocampal granule cell density and dendritic length in the CA3 pyramidal cell layer" (Chan et al. 1996). Chan's abstract does not mention this, and instead points out that

• Convulsions and hyperactivity were observed in dosed rats and mice; the onset and frequency were dose related
• delta 9-THC administration for 13 weeks induced testicular atrophy and uterine and ovarian hypoplasia; the lesions persisted in a 9-week recovery period
• There was no evidence that delta 9-THC was carcinogenic in rats or mice (some cancer rates actually went down; it looks like they didn't have enough statistical power to be confident)

But I would consider convulsions and testicular atrophy to be pretty negative.

I did not check any of the anti-cannabis papers. In the end it was an interesting read, but not enough to really change my mind, although I'm leaving the window open just a bit. Also, I'm not sure how well Paracelsus' famous quote really applies to an addictive substance.

[Cecily]

To reiterate:
A: Everything is poisonous
B: The dose makes the poison.

Water is poisonous in high enough quantities. It’s relative to the substance. You could easily make the argument that addictive substances are more poisonous, particularly if you agree addiction is a disease. My problem is not differentiating between physical and mental addiction. You can demonize a substance whose withdrawal causes physical illness much easier than one that might make you feel off a few days. There’s a huge difference in likelyhood of being able to stop.

[FatherSioux]

Rogan just had a good conversation about this. More informative than you half developed basement boys making shit up.

[Cecily]

This one an abusive father figure?

I wish I had a basement. I also wish I had time to delve into this topic further, but I’m out enjoying the lovely scorched earth scenery of January. I do hope all the hopes pinned on marijuana as an alternative to psych medications prove fruitful. I broke down and asked for an antidepressant yesterday after a decade of swearing them off.

The good thing is it’s getting researched more now, so we’ll have a better picture of the benefits and risks eventually. It’s not going to be completely harmless, especially as a recreational drug, but CBD in particular looks extremely promising.

60 degrees today!

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[America]

I don't like the sexual side effects of SSRI. If I were a meat sex haver, it would be intolerable. However, my form of eroticism still works pretty well. Other than that, I am a way more functional and thus decent person and my network is stronger than it's ever been cuz I roll pretty fearlessly right now.

It totally erased my social / being-out anxiety when I was crippled by it, so I think Lexapro will have proven worthwhile so long as I don't remain crutched by it for life. It was really astonishing how effective it was. I had felt like I was reduced to my adult infancy, when I was a 15-yo total agoraphobe, when my appearance started changing to the point I had to be read as some kind of queer. You don't seem like you have that problem tho (actually, Cecily, I think you are "so brave". I am really impressed at how you attack transition.) but you do have other mood issues.

My read on it is that it's totally dandy to take during the really tough hingey part of transition. Appearance problems will produce less anxiety and embarrassing incidents cause less PTSD. etc. In fact, it may turn out that it's a good idea on average to give a SSRI prophylactically for a year or two at commencement of hormones.

[Cecily]

I’m curious how sexual sides interact with what you get from hormones anyway. At least mine doesn’t have weight gain as a side effect. Think that and being conscious of my emotions being capped at palpable min/max always turned me off of them. I think... this is the same one I tried a decade ago and it actually did help. I just wasn’t me.

Ty about “so brave” lol. I’m absolutely terrified tbh, but I’m able to get out of the house and desensitize myself to interpersonal interaction. 50-50 on anxiety choking my voice up when I talk to strangers, but I’ve gotta do this or I’m gonna relapse to neckbeard.

I credit CBD during late 2017 and early 2018, along my canvassing job this past fall. CBD seemed to lessen my lifelong crippling social anxiety permanently and knocking on 80 stranger’s doors at day got me over the rest of it. I feel like I’m definitely below clinical threshold for it now and just deal with what I assume is normal anxiety. I can effectively kill new anxieties in the course of a week or so with 2-3 exposures. It’s fucking nice.

Just throw yourself into things - like you have been and it’s not so scary after whatever worst case scenario doesn’t happen. Your field reports and insights helped me out considerably with all this btw.

Wish I had a mind trick to make depression fuck off, but it’s wrecking my prospects atm so desperate measures in pill form for the moment.

There actually is one come to think of it. I’ve seen it suggested depresssion is due to a disregulated circadian rhythm. There’s been some success with keeping people up 48 hours at a time on lithium with estimated 5% perma success per treatment cycle. I might try to experiment on myself with it, minus lithium. Might just play nirvana’s to be safe.

I used to work graveyard shift for like 8 years so I’m sure mine got trashed in between that and video game binging during the same period.

Just considered that quitting video games might also be likely reason for the anxiety relief. Lack of gaming only correlates to positive things in my experience. EQ was the real neurotoxin.

[America]

Thank you. I'm honored to have helped.

I don't think you suffer enough of a problem for lithium to be worthwhile. Trying lithium made a treacherous period for me. It is toooo hard of a drug. this is me trying to override the advice of a potential future doctor you encounter, because I know I am smarter than him.