Miscellaneous: P99 should have a +Mana cap and revised Base Mana Formula

[Rygar]

Some great proof here of the mana cap scaling at low levels. Some people post some bogus formulas claiming 6k max mana at 60 but easily was debunked.

Some intriguing reading:
http://web.archive.org/web/200105042...ML/000565.html

I know must of you will not believe this. But I am almost 100% sure there is a mana cap. I added 190 mana from items alone to a twink mage I made. My lvl 1 nuke spell only cost 7 mana. So I should be able to cast well over 20 just with my gear alone, not counting my mana I had already. Well I couldn't cast anywhere near 20. More like 8 or 9. Does anyone know when I get my mana that my items say I have? And please spare me of your disbeleifs on this subject unless you go test it out(then I would like to hear it).

Mana is capped (or maybe artificially limited is a better phrase) at low levels. NOt sure when the cap lifts but it's there.
I created a Iksar Necro to cast Invis Undead on my Wizard once (so my wizard could get down to the jester in Kurn's). Invis undead is a lvl 1 necro spell that cost 40 mana - I never found a way to cast it at level 1, you just can't have that much mana at lvl 1.

I put the basic gold/plat Jade (mana/hp) jewelry on him but it didn't help. I put my Tolamupj's Robe and Shrouded Viel on him and he still coudn't cast it. That's about +200 mana worth gear total. So I leveled him up to level 2. Even with the +70 mana worth of jewelry I still had to give him the +30 mana face piece before he could cast a 40 mana spell on my wizard.

[Rygar]

Another interesting find.
http://web.archive.org/web/200105042...ML/000363.html

OK. +mana items do NOT give the full mana that they say they do. I have tested this and determined that they give a percentage based on your INT / WIS whichever is used for your class to generate mana. If you have a moonstone ring that gives +30 mana and you give to a human wizard with 100 INT, the ring will give him exactly 15 extra mana. In order to get the full mana you must have your INT maxxed at 200 (WIS if you are a priest class) Take your INT divided by 2. That is the percentage of the mana from the +mana item that you will actually recieve from it.
While Abashi once stated that +mana and +hp items give the full amount indicated, my own tests, and the tests of some friends would indicate that Abashi's statement was mis-informed as pertaining to +mana items (his statement was accurate for +hp items).

I think that is interesting as in my last post a level 2 necro put on a +70 mana item and couldn't cast a 40 mana spell, but could once he equipped an additional +30 mana item.

Leads me to believe there is some truth to the above where the +mana is both level based and potentially related to your INT/WIS current standing.

[1corinthians13]

Nice find Rygar. This is interesting. Wouldn't open sourcing Project 1999 make it easier for us to find these sort of non-classic bugs and send in patches for review?

[Rygar]

Certain open sourcing info may be abused, such as analyzing for dupe effects and such. There are benefits as well for sure, but I foresee p99 neckbeard abuse.

But back to issue at hand: classic mana formulas would be dope

[Rygar]

I don't think it needs to be an all or nothing approach. If it turns out instituting the cap is very easy, but fixing wis/int values is very difficult, I think you do the easy thing first then work on the tough part.

At the very least this will give players a better picture of what they need for an encounter with a 'maxed out' mana pool. I realize this may appear unfair to some end-gamers as they have the best gear and want to be rewarded for that, but they can take solace in the fact that one day they will be rewarded (I'm sure that gear also has other benefits like resists, other stats, etc for the meantime).

If a dev commented that "At level 60 with 200 wis your mana will be X, at level 60 with 255 wis your mana will be Y once the mana calculation is made classic. Mana cap is currently set at 4,160... bid on your items accordingly", you could then at least figure out what kind of gear profile you are shooting for.

Would be interesting to see how this affects BiS builds... would Zlandicar's Heart go up in price for regen bonus (maybe other Aura of Battle items... hello Spirit Wracked Cord)? Would certain traditionally melee items start being bid on by casters? Maybe start building other stats for fun like +CHA (vendor pricing) or +STR (encumberment). Maybe you don't need 'BiS' but 2nd best or 3rd best item drops that bid for cheap fill out your mana cap easier.

Maybe it won't change much, but kind of exciting to see how Norrath adjusts.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by teija [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Getting to any type of cap without raid gear does not seem classic to me.

Both are not classic, making it 50% classic is a start though, no?

EDIT: Just thought of possible compromise... if fixing both of these issues is a tremendous nightmare, perhaps all Velious raid zones can have their HP increased by 10%. I figure 4600 / 4200 is roughly 10%. This will still reward end game profiles but encounter would last longer, draining that additional mana.

If / when the wis/int and mana cap fixes can be implemented, then just restore Velious raid zone HP to classic levels.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by teija [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Getting to mana cap without raid gear does not seem classic to me.

The issue is not many people actually were aware of what their Mana pool was because it wasn't displayed in the UI until 2003/4.

Also I'd love to see the Magelo of a character with a 4200 Mana pool with 0 raid gear. I don't think that's happening currently on P99.

[Erati]

I posted the bug about int/wis cap long ago but a Mana cap sounds beyond dumb for a locked server like ours.

maybe when things are on the brink of classicness you roll out the proper wis/int caps to keep mana pools proper in era but capping raw mana just cause - naw this thread is going no where.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I posted the bug about int/wis cap long ago but a Mana cap sounds beyond dumb for a locked server like ours.

maybe when things are on the brink of classicness you roll out the proper wis/int caps to keep mana pools proper in era but capping raw mana just cause - naw this thread is going no where.

I don't quite understand the logic here. That is like saying they should not cap any stats at 255 since this is a time locked server. It is a classic time locked server, with complete as possible classic mechanics.

I'm willing to bet not a lot of people knew about the mana cap from back in the day (i know i didn't). So sucks for those people to find out, but i think it is important to implement.

Hopefully can hear from a dev on feasibility.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't quite understand the logic here. That is like saying they should not cap any stats at 255 since this is a time locked server. It is a classic time locked server, with complete as possible classic mechanics.

I'm willing to bet not a lot of people knew about the mana cap from back in the day (i know i didn't). So sucks for those people to find out, but i think it is important to implement.

Hopefully can hear from a dev on feasibility.

Here is the thread that I already commented on and supported which is what I feel more important than this potentially false speculative 'feature' that you are pushing here.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ghlight=wisdom

Int/Wisdom caps are too high here, thats been well known and established for a lonnnnngggg time. If you feel mana pools are not classic, you fix them by fixing the 255 stat cap returns because right now you probably get more mana than was intented for having your stats this high in this era but that might be something that cant be fixed with our client.

Implementing a hard cap of mana tho, is beyond dumb however because even if it did exist, it has no place on our server that at this point as p99 does not feature classic npc hit point pools, mana pools, damage calculations, Armor Class, Attack Ratings etc.

If all the core elements that make up every single npc engage is already not classic mostly thanks to the titanium client, why should the devs artificially hamstring the players playing here with a hard mana cap. If people get their mana above 4200 ( or whatever cap you make up ), more power to them, it doesnt affect YOUR gameplay.

Mana was not displayed during this era so its impossible to prove it was capped. This thread is pointless.