Necromancers "are terrible in groups"

[Izmael]

By the time a necro masters their class and becomes a valuable group asset, they are close to 60 and solo HS or something. At these levels, groups often try to min/max as well.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where the hell are all you people saying necros can't dps getting that? You realize a necro pet is going to do ~50 dps? Even if they just alternate lifetaps and poison nukes, they're going to outdamage basically any monk in an exp group.

That guy who made that post is a clown.

Necro summoned pets are like 40-50 dps. Charmed ones are double or triple that easily and they are absolutely a thing in a zone like seb. Then necros can add nukes where they want in the battles instead of contributing useless dps when the mob is like 10%(and not fleeing due to necro snare). And they are the best nuking class in the game.

Having a class just for CC'ing or just for healing or just for high dps is great but how often is it needed in full groups?

Chanters rarely have to use the full efficiency of their CC'ing therefore they are not fully efficient in a lot of cases.

Same with clerics. In a lot of groups, nothing more than just a few heals once in a while is all that's needed.

Same with dps. Dps doesnt matter that much at higher level group play(not that necro dps is low)unless you are killing named dragon like mobs that have raid level hp. Most group content dies within 10 seconds no matter what the group make up is. Having extra group utility is usually more important than maximizing dps in these cases.


I've spent countless hours in seb and never really seen descrimination against necros. If your team doesn't want a necro because it thinks the class is inferior, your group is probably the thing that is inferior.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Same with dps. Dps doesnt matter that much at higher level group play(not that necro dps is low)unless you are killing named dragon like mobs that have raid level hp. Most group content dies within 10 seconds no matter what the group make up is. Having extra group utility is usually more important than maximizing dps in these cases.

Well this this depends where you're hunting. The rate limiting factor in most groups isn't dps - it's the other stuff. Emp in seb? I've never been in a group less than 4 that had a hard time keeping up with spawns - we end up waiting around for repops. Still though, for emp I'd 100% rather have a rogue even a 2nd because you always need one for doors and to drag down replacements.

In a place like Kael arena where mobs have more hp (but especially the high regen) having dps beyond a to get over that hump really counts. Once you saturate the group with enough dps, you still get stuck waiting on repops.

Case in point: monk friend and I on shaman like to go duo arena. A veteran pull with just lv 60 monk dps and shaman pet can take 15 or more minutes due to regen. When we had our guild leader's alt necro (58) join us we cut our kill time by more than 70% because the extra pet plus necro dps allowed us to more completely overpower mob regen. Epic rogue dps allowed us to actually slightly slower because the rogue had to throttle back until we had mobs properly monk tashed and slowed. The necro pet didn't compete for aggro and slower burn dots could be applied early. More than anything, having an extra heal that stacks with torpor made handling rampage and the initial engage much more smooth. With a knight tanking, for raw dps the rogue would be preferable if you only consider kill speed, but the doing higher content with fewer folks still favors having extra skills/abilities whether that's pocket rez or more smooth healing.

If that group had been sham/monk/knight/dps or sham/monk/cleric/dps (5 guys) - the decision for rogue vs necro? Equally moot because with a good 5 man you can already keep both sides of the arena down pretty well. The difference between epic rogue dps and the sum total a necro + pet is not really important. The rogue is higher, but you're already pushed into a situation where you're limited by spawns. Necro in this case still brings other tools like Rez, mana twitches, snare, spot heals to the table.

I will close with this though. I parse a lot in groups. A lot of people out there put out a lot less dps than they THINK they do. This includes epic monks, rogues and rangers. An epic mage pet pretty much schools then all over time. Even max summon earth pet churns out 60-80 consistently.

[Topgunben]

Great thread 10/10

[Squabbles123]

Originally Posted by feanan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's because the number of lazy and/or shitty necros is way greater than people like yourself.

Same as the bard just playing regen and meleeing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It isn't' until you see a well played necro/bard by someone who isn't lazy that you realize how incredible they are.

This.

Its basically a Necro stereotype.

Necro is "Honzo" if you ever played Overwatch. Most are shit, but then you stumble into one that just wrecks face and you're like, wow, I didn't know they could DO that.

[kjs86z]

No one is going to argue the best 6 man group is:

Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter, Monk, Rogue, Shaman

However, that's only on paper. I'm a firm believer in "bring the player, not the class."

I've grouped with great necros and not so great necros. The best groups aren't always the "perfect six." Min / maxing is cool and all but if you can't enjoy the game with a less-than-optimal setup...you're doing it wrong.

[welly321]

Originally Posted by kjs86z [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one is going to argue the best 6 man group is:

Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter, Monk, Rogue, Shaman

However, that's only on paper. I'm a firm believer in "bring the player, not the class."

I've grouped with great necros and not so great necros. The best groups aren't always the "perfect six." Min / maxing is cool and all but if you can't enjoy the game with a less-than-optimal setup...you're doing it wrong.

Why would you want a warrior over a knight in a 6 man group setting?

[Nirgon]

You can dispel the healing recourse effect on Pact of Shadow (and other spells in its line here) which is not classic and never worked on live either.

[Spyder73]

I asked a monk to duo with me in KC the other day and he told me ‘no thanks’...5-10 minutes went by and he finally he was like “well ok I guess we can try it for a little bit”. About 15 minutes in he told me that he was ‘stunned’ at how smoothly our duo was going because he had tried grouping with a few necros previously and it was just a sh!t show. They wouldn’t charm, they didn’t root CC, they didn’t heal appropriately, ect… Also in KC I had a person tell me ‘obviously I know nothing about necromancers’ after he realized I had been the only ‘healer’ in our group for the past 2 hours.

I have main healed King camp in Sebelis on my 57 necro more than once… With slows I am not really sure why people need Clerics outside of raid content.

[Jimjam]

I've had people compliment my ranger on his healing because they don't realise the necromancer is the one doing the bulk of the leg work :S