New sneak mechanics = trainfest?

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2nd mains

I find the bit I quoted rather funny.

I don't see that this patch changes much of anything for lower-end guilds, and I say that as someone who constantly floats around in the lower-end scene. They didn't compete for high-end targets before the patch, and won't do so now. Hateplane might become more of a mess though.

Originally Posted by Sancta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Casual have competed in ToV, sat on the line

No they haven't because if you're sitting around in temple veeshan, you're not really casual anymore. YOu might not be hardcore either, but you're at least someplace in the middle. Casual players are out fighting in West Karana or Unrest or Karnor or maybe dorking around in Fearplane.

Danth

[Sancta]

Originally Posted by AFTREQWASNTCOOL [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look at this hot shot here

what a HOT SHOT

I always loved that gif but why skip frames? Do it in it's full glory!

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you basically never raided? Speaking from the aftermath perspective at least, I don't know of any officer or leader who has an army of alts geared out. The way the bidding process is done, anyone can stop an alt from getting an item that they want by just bidding the minimum. Anything in Aftermath that goes to an alt goes to an alt because no one valued it enough to meet the minimum bid. If you are referring to 2nd mains, just about any raid entity either has 2nd mains or they random fro drops anyway, if not one of those two options then its a newer guild and players just haven't had the time to level up more toons. I personally have 3 lvl 60s I have leveled myself and one more that is almost there, and I started without knowing anyone on the server.

While there are "casuals" even in the top 2 guilds, they are there and welcomed because it takes both the hard core beards along with the baby faced casuals to kill a target. Albeit less so now with the 1 hour FTE. Every change to the raid rules makes it more challenging, at least until the scene adapts to them and then it becomes the same repetitive stuff until the next change or nerf happens. The problem is that the people who will adapt to these changes the fastest are the ones willing to put in the most time to do so. You make fun of them for the amount of time they put into the game but that is there choice just as its the choice of others not to put in the time. Saying that they don't deserve more in return for time invested is just stupid and obviously not how the server GMs see it.

I said the typical raid guild on the server. I never was in Aftermath so I can't say how you operate etc.

You are right, I did limited raiding on P99. It took me a matter of 2-3 months of being in a raid guild to understand the mentality of their leadership and I found it distasteful to say the least.

Maybe I hold a lot more resentment than I should against raiders in general on this server, but my very limited time spent in a raid guild here was an eye-opening experience, and frankly overwhelmingly disappointing.

I joined the raid guild thinking it would be a close-knit community of players willing to help one another when in fact the majority of the players that got any help were the inner circle who needed the least amount of help.

Occasionally a fringe player would voice their unhappiness with how "help" was spread or not spread around for members of the guild, and they would be silenced with "Just give it time. Help the guild (the greedy neckbeards), and eventually one day we will help you."

I can say with certainty the greed of the players on this server has totally destroyed any chances of "casuals" ever getting to raid as the meta operates now.

Pretending that monk nerfs is actually going to hurt casuals chances of raiding is the typical type of crap a true neckbeard would spew to defend the present scheme of things in raiding on P99.

If there's any way to preserve the defunct system in place now that lets them soak up as much of the high end pixels possible, they will try to do it, even by proclaiming monk nerfs will hurt the "poor casuals" chances at raid mob shinies. You know, the same shiny pixels that casuals never get anyway.

[Sancta]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find the bit I quoted rather funny.

I don't see that this patch changes much of anything for lower-end guilds, and I say that as someone who constantly floats around in the lower-end scene. They didn't compete for high-end targets before the patch, and won't do so now. Hateplane might become more of a mess though.

No they haven't because if you're sitting around in temple veeshan, you're not really casual anymore. YOu might not be hardcore either, but you're at least someplace in the middle. Casual players are out fighting in West Karana or Unrest or Karnor or maybe dorking around in Fearplane.


Danth

It's like no one that posts here actually still plays.

Sneak after an FD does not memblur the mobs in the pull anymore, which means monk pulling has been nerfed considerably. Simple things like HoT, which the casual guilds do way more than A/A, is now more difficult for everyone and strictly because of that one change even disregarding the new chase mechanics. Not saying it isn't doable, just more difficult now.

Can even state the point more plainly - A monk pulling ANY mob in ANY zone is going to have a harder time. This change affects everyone single monk pull from now until forever.

Don't think A/A care as much, sure it's a bummer, but they will adjust to any change the server makes.

Lower-end guilds get way more of this shaft while high-end guilds get just the tip. <- maybe speaking this forums' language will help?

Also when "casual guilds" are mentioned, especially in threads like these, they are talking about the casual raiding guilds, not random guild #32 that doesn't have a player over 50. But my point still stands, it affects the monk pulls in those guilds too.

[Sancta]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I joined the raid guild thinking it would be a close-knit community of players willing to help one another when in fact the majority of the players that got any help were the inner circle who needed the least amount of help.

The way to get people to help you is not through having the same guild tag, although that helps. It's talking to people, through tells or teamspeak, get to know eachother, become friends etc. Just because I joined Raid Guild X doesn't mean that anyone should auto-help with anything. Those "inner circle" people get help because they are probably the most active in guild events, chat channels, voice channels, help others out and put in the time. Sorry, I can't speak for Awakened, but I'm sure it's the same way.

When I joined my current guild, I wasn't helped on anything right away, I took my time out to help others in guild first, built clout and relationships, help out with random things etc. Only then once I was active, helpful and knew the players I was playing with they were willing to return the favor and that's talking about people outside of guild too.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said the typical raid guild on the server. I never was in Aftermath so I can't say how you operate etc.

You are right, I did limited raiding on P99. It took me a matter of 2-3 months of being in a raid guild to understand the mentality of their leadership and I found it distasteful to say the least.

Maybe I hold a lot more resentment than I should against raiders in general on this server, but my very limited time spent in a raid guild here was an eye-opening experience, and frankly overwhelmingly disappointing.

I joined the raid guild thinking it would be a close-knit community of players willing to help one another when in fact the majority of the players that got any help were the inner circle who needed the least amount of help.

Occasionally a fringe player would voice their unhappiness with how "help" was spread or not spread around for members of the guild, and they would be silenced with "Just give it time. Help the guild (the greedy neckbeards), and eventually one day we will help you."

I can say with certainty the greed of the players on this server has totally destroyed any chances of "casuals" ever getting to raid as the meta operates now.

Pretending that monk nerfs is actually going to hurt casuals chances of raiding is the typical type of crap a true neckbeard would spew to defend the present scheme of things in raiding on P99.

If there's any way to preserve the defunct system in place now that lets them soak up as much of the high end pixels possible, they will try to do it, even by proclaiming monk nerfs will hurt the "poor casuals" chances at raid mob shinies. You know, the same shiny pixels that casuals never get anyway.

Not sure what raid guilds have a ton of people helping or asking for help in them. I know in aftermath its very rare that anyone needs to ask the guild for help with anything....

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Sancta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's like no one that posts here actually still plays.

Been online every day this week, thanks. From my standpoint, it appears your beliefs rest on the assumption that lower-end players are unable to adapt to change. I disagree; high-end or low, this patch simply means guilds will employ pull teams where single pullers sufficed before. Pulling isn't why low-end guilds don't defeat mid-range targets, and pulling isn't why mid-range guilds don't usually compete for high-end targets. Heck, I *live* in the lower-end scene on P1999 and chat both in-guild and among friends was almost universally positive with respect to this new patch. Folks like classic mechanics.

Danth

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Been online every day this week, thanks. From my standpoint, it appears your beliefs rest on the assumption that lower-end players are unable to adapt to change. I disagree; high-end or low, this patch simply means guilds will employ pull teams where single pullers sufficed before. Pulling isn't why low-end guilds don't defeat mid-range targets, and pulling isn't why mid-range guilds don't usually compete for high-end targets. Heck, I *live* in the lower-end scene on P1999 and chat both in-guild and among friends was almost universally positive with respect to this new patch. Folks like classic mechanics.

Danth

The only person here actually complaining about the changes is lhance and he is complaining second handedly basically.

[Pokesan]

what is project1999 raiding?

a bunch of nerds that turn video game skill into the definition of self worth

[Sancta]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Been online every day this week, thanks. From my standpoint, it appears your beliefs rest on the assumption that lower-end players are unable to adapt to change. I disagree; high-end or low, this patch simply means guilds will employ pull teams where single pullers sufficed before. Pulling isn't why low-end guilds don't defeat mid-range targets, and pulling isn't why mid-range guilds don't usually compete for high-end targets. Heck, I *live* in the lower-end scene on P1999 and chat both in-guild and among friends was almost universally positive with respect to this new patch. Folks like classic mechanics.

Danth

I think you're completely misunderstanding the point, lower-end guilds can certainly change, it's just harder for them to do so. And when I say casual/low-end guild, I mean a raiding guild that could compete for targets, sorry for the confusion. Never talked about liking/disliking the changes or about guilds not adapting, only that it will be harder for them to adapt to raid targets.

My point: Monk pulling is harder for everyone. Down to the monk pulling in Unrest, albeit not that much more difficult for them.


Now, for a casual RAID guild to compete with raid targets they will need to do MORE WORK than they did before to compete. That's just plain fact, everyone has to do more work to compete now, including A/A. Seeing as how the casual raid guilds don't get many targets, they will now have to do more work to get the targets they already get and that puts a hamper on progressing to targets they don't get since they are harder for them to attain now. Further widening the gap.


I personally don't mind the changes at all, shits harder and the guild I'm in adapts far easier than other guilds that compete for raid targets. It will be harder for the casual raid guilds than A/A. It already was harder without these changes, this makes it even harder.