Raid guild loot systems other than DKP?

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Amount of time played has nothing to do with what the player contributes. Just because they soak up tons of DKP does not prove they are a contributing cog in the raid guild.

I am not saying that it's not beneficial to have very active players who do a large portion of the work on raids. But to pretend that all members that have high attendance are useful, necessary members that only help to create a more positive, cameraderie in a guild seems a bit far fetched and idealistic.

None of the content in EQ is particularly challenging and beyond tracking or FTE'ing simply participating in the raid is the only other way to contribute. The single greatest challenge to any encounter is ensuring you've enough people to actually down the target. Outside of FTE/Tracking everyone is a "warm body" unless you are suggesting people actually just stand around afk and don't do anything? I can't say I've actually witnessed that, but I have seen people removed from lots for afk and more often people remove themselves from logs for afk. Either way it's a rarity.

What exactly do you mean by "warm body" Lhance? There is not a lot of opportunity for classes to demonstrate their prowess in raids. Every class can have their roles defined in 3-4 responsibilities at most. And none of them have any significant degree of difficulty to complete.

Group content is far more about innovation/reaction in EQ. Raid content is just about discipline.

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That other guy was trying to insist that your guild's not effectively a job....meanwhile you're talking about people being monitored to ensure a certain level of production, about them being penalized for not meeting it, about maintaining logs of guildmates' actions, and about people being reliable for putting themselves on-call 24/7. All this from a guild that calls itself "casual?" You folks have a vastly different notion of "casual" than I have!

Danth

God forbid we penalize people who stand around doing absolutely nothing. Please dont apply to our guild, we have seen players like you before and you're not what we're looking for. You are after welfare pixels. I'm finished responding to you until such time as you stop trolling or gain some common sense.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Expediency [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is absolutely true. We have about 10-20 players who play very regularly, log in for most batphones, and have huge DKP totals. These people can be counted on. Its only fair that when the best stuff drops, they have the points to spend on it.

I just want to know if this is the "coterie" group of players that one guy posted about, who he claimed that in AG got all the loots while everyone else got scraps... Just curious. Can you confirm?

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to know if this is the "coterie" group of players that one guy posted about, who he claimed that in AG got all the loots while everyone else got scraps... Just curious. Can you confirm?

I have no idea what you're referring to. If someone comes to 3 encounters a day, and another player comes to 3 encounters a month, the guy who plays much more is going to get more loot in a dkp system. Thats justice imo and if you cant see that we'll have to agree to disagree, /random will run off top players and the application pages of the top guilds are filled with people from smaller guilds who are sick of stuff like that.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That other guy was trying to insist that your guild's not effectively a job....meanwhile you're talking about people being monitored to ensure a certain level of production, about them being penalized for not meeting it, about maintaining logs of guildmates' actions, and about people being reliable for putting themselves on-call 24/7. All this from a guild that calls itself "casual?" You folks have a vastly different notion of "casual" than I have!

Danth

Compare AG to other top guilds and you will surely understand. We have some hardcore raiders no doubt and some checks and balances in place, but to say we aren't casual is ridiculous.

As I mention I can raid once a month, AG had not kicked me out. I work on tradeskills and other stuff during raids which aren't always my thing (RL requires me to take a lot of afks these days), I never have gotten any kind of warning. I have never been pressured to race, roll an alt that the guild needs or anything of the sort.

I understand your desire to stir the pot and attempt to point out hypocrisy, but your efforts are misplaced.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What exactly do you mean by "warm body" Lhance? There is not a lot of opportunity for classes to demonstrate their prowess in raids. Every class can have their roles defined in 3-4 responsibilities at most. And none of them have any significant degree of difficulty to complete.

Hmm I disagree. I think most classes can show prowess when played by a very good player compared to when played by a lazy, subpar player.

You have valid points though, and all it boils down to is no looting system is perfect.

Not even the one in AG. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[RDawg816]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no looting system is perfect.

Not even the one in AG. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They aren't arguing this. They've even said as much.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Expediency [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have no idea what you're referring to. If someone comes to 3 encounters a day, and another player comes to 3 encounters a month, the guy who plays much more is going to get more loot in a dkp system. Thats justice imo and if you cant see that we'll have to agree to disagree, /random will run off top players and the application pages of the top guilds are filled with people from smaller guilds who are sick of stuff like that.

I'd wager the application pages of the top guilds are filled with people from smaller guilds who just want to see the content period. DKP probably isn't much of a factor in their decision, unless they are comparing their choices between guilds to which system gives them the best shot at getting loot the soonest.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Expediency [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

God forbid we penalize people who stand around doing absolutely nothing. Please dont apply to our guild, we have seen players like you before and you're not what we're looking for. You are after welfare pixels. I'm finished responding to you until such time as you stop trolling or gain some common sense.

I see why you don't trust loot councils; you don't trust anyone. Guess what: I don't want your pixels. I haven't upgraded my character in roughly a year, and I don't care if he never receives an upgrade ever again. He's good enough to do the jobs I want him to do. I certainly ain't about to apply to your guild. Heck I wouldn't join *any* guild that requires applications and pays out monopoly money--too serious for my preference. Also, you seem rather hostile towards someone who has no particular beef with your guild--try not to fall into the trap of assuming anyone who isn't with you must be against you.

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Compare AG to other top guilds and you will surely understand. We have some hardcore raiders no doubt and some checks and balances in place, but to say we aren't casual is ridiculous.

I regard Azure Guard not as casual, but as a fairly intensive raid guild that accepts keeping casual players on roster. There's a distinction, I think. I rate something like Kittens who say Meow or Clue as casual. I've nothing against Azure Guard--I've recommended it to numerous friends, actually--but I think it brands itself inaccurately, much as BDA did.

Danth

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmm I disagree. I think most classes can show prowess when played by a very good player compared to when played by a lazy, subpar player.

You have valid points though, and all it boils down to is no looting system is perfect.

Not even the one in AG. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You got an example Lhance of what you are thinking? I can go through and lost the roles of various classes, but probably easier if you can just point out an example of how an exceptional player differentiates themself from a shitty one in a raid encounter? I guess what I am saying is the bar is so damn low, I can't really imagine players being able to fail utterly and collect dkp lol^^