TOV - Pulling Mobs to ENT

[dafier]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Further musings.

Typically you are not allowed to have more than 2 players past zone in when a mob spawns to contest it. This doesn't make as much sense for some of these.

IE - A guild could be clearing WToV and Dozekar spawns in EToV. They should be able to contest him if they are in a different wing. Likewise if a guild is farming HoT, and a NToV dragon spawns they should be able to contest it. The wings separate themselves pretty well.

Similarly a group could be in Arena and Tormax spawns, or a group could be farming Tormax mobs and Statue spawns.

Especially in the beginning when guilds are factioning, farming armor and questing. They shouldn't be blocked from these zones when mobs are due to spawn because a group of them are hanging out in a different part of the zone.

Velious won't be as simple as FTE I don't think.

^^^

Agreed and this makes complete sense.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Further musings.

Typically you are not allowed to have more than 2 players past zone in when a mob spawns to contest it. This doesn't make as much sense for some of these.

IE - A guild could be clearing WToV and Dozekar spawns in EToV. They should be able to contest him if they are in a different wing. Likewise if a guild is farming HoT, and a NToV dragon spawns they should be able to contest it. The wings separate themselves pretty well.

Similarly a group could be in Arena and Tormax spawns, or a group could be farming Tormax mobs and Statue spawns.

Especially in the beginning when guilds are factioning, farming armor and questing. They shouldn't be blocked from these zones when mobs are due to spawn because a group of them are hanging out in a different part of the zone.

Velious won't be as simple as FTE I don't think.

Daldean,

The current rules were for the sake of Kunark and Classic content only. There was zero consideration given to how they would effect the Velious raid scene.

Also, a single group farming armor or faction should hold no authority on claiming an area over a raid. A 40-60 man raid looking to down a target is there for a temporary purpose of killing a raid mob and moving on. A single group should yield for a reasonable amount of time, until that mob is killed, and then return to their armor/faction farming.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Daldean,

The current rules were for the sake of Kunark and Classic content only. There was zero consideration given to how they would effect the Velious raid scene.

Also, a single group farming armor or faction should hold no authority on claiming an area over a raid. A 40-60 man raid looking to down a target is there for a temporary purpose of killing a raid mob and moving on. A single group should yield for a reasonable amount of time, until that mob is killed, and then return to their armor/faction farming.

You misunderstood me.

I'm suggesting that if TMO had a presence doing say... Keldor Dek Torek, a group able mob. And your group were clearing through Tormax area. Then you all of a sudden hear that Statue is up, in the north wing of Kael, your presence at Tormax shouldn't prohibit TMO from competing on Statue. Because with the size of zones and requirements for engaging most of these mobs, your being in a completely different part of the zone with 6 players doesn't give any tangible advantage.

Likewise, if you and a group or two are farming trash in HoTesting. You shouldn't be prohibited from contesting a raid spawn in WToV or NToV. You SHOULD however be prohibited from engaging Dozekar, because he spawns in the wing where you were at, and clearing trash have you a clear benefit in engaging him. However clearing that trash gives absolutely no benefit in engaging a WToV or NToV spawn.

Its all going to get sorted out eventually, but yes, FTE definitely was a system designed for Kunark and Classic targets where a warrior and a cleric can hold off a mob for a few minutes solo. Good luck doing that in Velious.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You misunderstood me.

I'm suggesting that if TMO had a presence doing say... Keldor Dek Torek, a group able mob. And your group were clearing through Tormax area. Then you all of a sudden hear that Statue is up, in the north wing of Kael, your presence at Tormax shouldn't prohibit TMO from competing on Statue. Because with the size of zones and requirements for engaging most of these mobs, your being in a completely different part of the zone with 6 players doesn't give any tangible advantage.

Likewise, if you and a group or two are farming trash in HoTesting. You shouldn't be prohibited from contesting a raid spawn in WToV or NToV. You SHOULD however be prohibited from engaging Dozekar, because he spawns in the wing where you were at, and clearing trash have you a clear benefit in engaging him. However clearing that trash gives absolutely no benefit in engaging a WToV or NToV spawn.

Its all going to get sorted out eventually, but yes, FTE definitely was a system designed for Kunark and Classic targets where a warrior and a cleric can hold off a mob for a few minutes solo. Good luck doing that in Velious.

I don't think I misunderstood, I just responded to a focused part of your discussion - I probably should have contextualized better.

I agree that the 2 person in zone while mobs are in window rule will be ineffective, prohibitive and unnecessary come tomorrow. You are right about a party being in one area of the zone not having any impact on the progress of a raid force engaging a mob on the opposite end of the zone. There should be no consequence for this.

However, I also don't think poop-socking will be as significant an issue as it was in Kunark/Classic, making the "same portion of the zone = ineligible to engage" concept antiquated. You are correct about us not know the windows yet (or if there even are windows) and there are no class restrictions (as of yet), which leads me to feel that no matter how great your overall force, Velious content is so sprawling and expansive (in both landmass and content) that it wouldn't really be practical to camp your raid force at/near a single target or even two. If it's stall we're worried about, we can just stick to the current no-stalling rule.

[Sampten]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think I misunderstood, I just responded to a focused part of your discussion - I probably should have contextualized better.

I agree that the 2 person in zone while mobs are in window rule will be ineffective, prohibitive and unnecessary come tomorrow. You are right about a party being in one area of the zone not having any impact on the progress of a raid force engaging a mob on the opposite end of the zone. There should be no consequence for this.

However, I also don't think poop-socking will be as significant an issue as it was in Kunark/Classic, making the "same portion of the zone = ineligible to engage" concept antiquated. You are correct about us not know the windows yet (or if there even are windows) and there are no class restrictions (as of yet), which leads me to feel that no matter how great your overall force, Velious content is so sprawling and expansive (in both landmass and content) that it wouldn't really be practical to camp your raid force at/near a single target or even two. If it's stall we're worried about, we can just stick to the current no-stalling rule.

Putting a raid force in one wing, waiting for a mob to spawn in another is most likely going to be a no go. I mean, you're "wing poopsocking" at that point, and deliberately giving yourself a competitive advantage by doing so.

GM clarification is going to be in order, and there's been no responses/information by any of the powers that be to this point.

I still encourage "common sense" approach. If something might be consider shady, it probably is, and if you're going to take part in it then you run the risk of raid suspension and loot deletion.

[TarukShmaruk]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, a single group farming armor or faction should hold no authority on claiming an area over a raid. A 40-60 man raid looking to down a target is there for a temporary purpose of killing a raid mob and moving on. A single group should yield for a reasonable amount of time, until that mob is killed, and then return to their armor/faction farming.

Why exactly do you and a bunch of poopsocking dorks have authority over me and some people playing the game? What makes us second class citizens?

"move along scrubs, the raid force is here" ?

go fuck yourself

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by TarukShmaruk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why exactly do you and a bunch of poopsocking dorks have authority over me and some people playing the game? What makes us second class citizens?

"move along scrubs, the raid force is here" ?

go fuck yourself

You lost your entitlement to an honest explanation when you resorted to personal attacks/vulgarity - that's probably what makes you a 'second class citizen'.

Take your RnF elsewhere.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Typically you are not allowed to have more than 2 players past zone in when a mob spawns to contest it. This doesn't make as much sense for some of these.

IE - A guild could be clearing WToV and Dozekar spawns in EToV. They should be able to contest him if they are in a different wing. Likewise if a guild is farming HoT, and a NToV dragon spawns they should be able to contest it. The wings separate themselves pretty well.

Similarly a group could be in Arena and Tormax spawns, or a group could be farming Tormax mobs and Statue spawns.

Especially in the beginning when guilds are factioning, farming armor and questing. They shouldn't be blocked from these zones when mobs are due to spawn because a group of them are hanging out in a different part of the zone.

Velious won't be as simple as FTE I don't think.

Disagree. This is exactly the same thing as farming hate/fear armor and having Inny/CT spawn. Don't be in zone while they're in window.

[Daldaen]

Well to start, we don't know what everything's window is. As that hasn't been publicly posted and mobs are continually getting respawned by GMs. I know some guilds have been sitting on spawns watching to see what variance will be like but currently no one is positive what windows are. Just some rough ideas.

That aside, I really don't see how having 1-2 groups clearing WToV trash gives you a benefit over others when contesting a NToV mob. Assuming you are required to kill mobs in their wings.

I can see your argument in the case of 20-30 people, but 6-12 in the opposite side of the zone, I don't see that being an advantage at all. Not anymore than shitting in a sock with 6-12 at entrance (which should've been banished long ago or variance should've been removed).

Having a group in Hate when Inny spawns means you can generate a train and get an engage crew up top and fighting Inny while more people port up. A 5 man team could hold Inny for 3-4 minutes I think before wiping with no reinforcements.

Now in Velious... A group or two is in HoT and Eashen spawns. I don't see them having any option that is comparable to being able to start a kite and stall engage a mob for 3-4minures like you could do with Inny. Eashen will destroy a group of 6 unless it's 5 clerics and a warrior. Even still you have to get out of HoT, past CoV mobs, past KoS mobs, and split him out.

[Ella`Ella]

I think many of you are forgetting that most guilds aren't going to be able to clear a large portion of content either way, to be honest.

Think the Velious era should have much less GM intervention.

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Velious should just be full ffa for awhile with the exception of not being able to drag raid targets all around zones.