Mob run speed?

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by Rararboker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you really say that the number of people swarming isn't classic? That statement makes no sense, you know that right?

I see statements like this a lot. That is like saying people play monks too often and it isn't classic. Mechanics can or cannot be classic. What people do with those mechanics cannot be classified as classic or not. That is just ridiculous.

Oh I wholly agree with you, I was just pointing out that the "bard's couldn't swarm 100 mobs on 1999 hardware" statement is absolutely false but conceding that it is fair to say that more people swarm now. This is the exact same reason why multi boxing was allowed on live, and not on project 1999. Multi boxing was solved through a game policy change, not by nerfing wizard nukes. This should be no different. I personally see no issue with swarming how the game balance and server rules currently stand, and if camp rules aren't being enforced on the server that's a matter of needing more active guides on the server than nerfing a class. People always act like bards just come in the zone and pull everything, but fail to recognize this is already against the server rules if the bard interferes with a player's camp.

I'm with you on that. Anyone who's remotely familiar with the bard's abilities should be able to tell that swarm kiting mobs was a mechanic that Sony intended to be in the game. Without swarm kiting what is the use of the AoE songs? Why did Sony give Bards a swarm kiting song as the second song they get in Kunark (hint: to help them push for 60 by swarm kiting, regardless of if this is what people actually do or not) Why are Horns in the game?

All of these are questions that people can't answer, if they think swarming isn't classic. I'm just posting in hopes Haynar takes a moment to consider the points I'm bringing up before he pushes for Bard nerfs. Just trying to constructively offer what I think to be better solutions to the problem.

[rollin5k]

Im outrunning aviaks in SK with jboots. Gross exaggeration to say they are out running sow. They are faster though for sure

[RyoGTO]

Originally Posted by rollin5k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im outrunning aviaks in SK with jboots. Gross exaggeration to say they are out running sow. They are faster though for sure

definitely depends on the mob as some others pointed out, but all running faster.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by rollin5k [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im outrunning aviaks in SK with jboots. Gross exaggeration to say they are out running sow. They are faster though for sure

Depends on the mobs. Some shaman mobs with SoW will outrun a Selo's bard right now. Not everything is running at the same speed right now. Aviaks are particularly slow mobs in the first place, it's not like you're talking about raptors or cats.

[DarthMartigan]

Originally Posted by Xaanka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Depends on the mobs. Some shaman mobs with SoW will outrun a Selo's bard right now. Not everything is running at the same speed right now. Aviaks are particularly slow mobs in the first place, it's not like you're talking about raptors or cats.

This is exactly right. I was able to do some bard kiting on birds and cacti in OT, but one cacti was running faster than selos strafing.

[Swish]

Can't outrun mobs with strafing anymore...they gon getcha.

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[integrable]

I never saw a bard swarm kite more two or three dozen mobs in classic. We don't know the devs intended for entire zones to be swarmed because it just didnt happen for them to see and react to it. I don't care about locking it to 4 mobs I just think there is a large discrepancy between bard swarm kiting in p99 and classic swarming.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by integrable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never saw a bard swarm kite more two or three dozen mobs in classic. We don't know the devs intended for entire zones to be swarmed because it just didnt happen for them to see and react to it. I don't care about locking it to 4 mobs I just think there is a large discrepancy between bard swarm kiting in p99 and classic swarming.

4 mobs is a tad rediculous (bards do significantly less damage per tick than druids and wizards, which can already solo 4) but I could also agree with setting a static cap of something like 10, 20, 30 targets on bard aoe damage abilities. That's more how most people swarmed on classic, a couple dozen mobs at once. Whole zone clears definitely did happen in classic but they were uncommon. Would be a fair second alternative to a policy change while keeping a minimal impact to the balance of the game.

Whole zone clears did become common around the time velious released because low end hardware could handle it and players became aware of its existence. You could swarm a zone on a $150 video card in 2001, and more like a $250-600 card in 1999-2000. Already backed this statement up with proof above.

I have nothing to back this up, but the SoE dev I knew before EQ released essentially described swarm kiting as a selling point to get me to play EQ around the time beta rolled out, so I know it's an intended mechanic. It's just a matter of digging up an old archived forum post or something, because yeah I have no proof. I seem to recall developers mention swarming several times on the forums back in the day, wouldn't be too hard to prove they were aware of it.

That and, as I've mentioned twice already, they buffed swarm kiting in Kunark. Got any explanation for that one?

[integrable]

Originally Posted by Xaanka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You could swarm a zone on a $150 video card in 2001, and more like a $250-600 card in 1999-2000. Already backed this statement up with proof above.

That article is typical computer magazine graphics card hype. It tells you what the card can do when its overclocked perfectly and running off like a fucking linux operating system on a setup with what may as well be an infinite amount of RAM for the cpu. IDC that a graphics card can run Quake 3 Arena at 60fps under those circumstances. A game like Quake is going to have fewer models and textures and smaller zones than EQ, doesn't require nearly as much to be kept in the virtual memory of the card, and is not going to need as high a frequency or bit rate for data transfer. And I cant remember playing Quake with anywhere near 50 models on my screen at once.

And I already admitted to being wrong about the pricing. I couldn't remember the price of card, but inflation hasn't changed much so i thought it might be similar to today. Regardless I ran a Pentium IV with 512MB ram and a 128 MB card and the setup couldn't handle anywhere near 100 models. I still have the computer too. Maybe I'll mail it too you and you can try swarming on your Bard if you are really so confident it can handle it.

[Xaanka]

Originally Posted by integrable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That article is typical computer magazine graphics card hype. It tells you what the card can do when its overclocked perfectly and running off like a fucking linux operating system on a setup with what may as well be an infinite amount of RAM for the cpu. IDC that a graphics card can run Quake 3 Arena at 60fps under those circumstances. A game like Quake is going to have fewer models and textures and smaller zones than EQ, doesn't require nearly as much to be kept in the virtual memory of the card, and is not going to need as high a frequency or bit rate for data transfer. And I cant remember playing Quake with anywhere near 50 models on my screen at once.

And I already admitted to being wrong about the pricing. I couldn't remember the price of card, but inflation hasn't changed much so i thought it might be similar to today. Regardless I ran a Pentium IV with 512MB ram and a 128 MB card and the setup couldn't handle anywhere near 100 models. I still have the computer too. Maybe I'll mail it too you and you can try swarming on your Bard if you are really so confident it can handle it.

I actually play on a laptop I bought in 2002, never had a problem swarming on P99.