Isn't there a better way to distribute raid loot? If not which is most fair?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by wycca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some problems I've always had with DKP -

- You may have the best geared paladin on the server, but hey, your tank lineup isnt deep enough for AoW
- Little Sally can save up for that dream item she has always wanted, blow all of her dkp...and be running around with no ear slot and cloth armor
- Busy Jimmy who amassed 1k dkp years ago can come back and start taking items from members who helped keep the guild competitive the last 6 months
- Evil Monks can make pacts to bid low so they can win all/all items
- You may have a superstar cleric or two, but your other 5-8 clrs die to AE's and go oom fast

So yes, theoretically all of those problems are fixable. Theres so many ways to counter the negative parts of DKP. In the end, you put bandaid upon bandaid upon the entire system.

In the end, the best thing for guild progression is a data-driven loot council system. Which is why both TMO and IB run one (as well as a host of the top guilds on live did).

You sir are trying to fuck a stranger in the ass.

Each of your points are either bullshit, or easily fixable.

Bullshit points: if a guild raids regularly, that means it gets loot. Highly doubt any real world situation in which a paladin gets all the loots and the warriors are all still in crafted. Only way that -- and several of your other scenarios -- happens is if you got piss poor attendance, in which case you are not probably killing anything at all.

As to people taking breaks, or excessive dkp gaps, either you are ignorant of DKP or you are, as I said, trying to fuck a stranger in the ass.

1) It is the *norm* that if someone takes a break, their DKP gets frozen + reduced by a % until they are back in good standing. I have been in several DKP guilds, and never have I seen someone "come back from a break" and be allowed to bid on an item.
2) It is also the *norm* that DKP amounts are periodically adjusted so that new members are not permanently outclassed on bidding. Again, this is the norm, and is not mysterious. Everyone's DKP's get adjusted so that bidding is more competitive. No accumulating 10k DKP: it will just get scaled down during the adjustment, so might as well spend.
3) The problem of people conspiring to not bid against each other is obvious, unless you have a zerg guild with so many members you cannot keep track of the character of your guild members.

They are trying to fuck you in the ass, people. They are tryi8ng to say, they know best, and you can't be trusted to decide when and what you want for YOUR character.


5,4,3,2,1 until Cecily or another Heather guild says, "The fact you are so concerned makes me worry you are a loot whore."

I'm an enchanter. Have been since 99. I could play in cloth and cha/resist gear and be fine. Consider the source people. And consider, DKP is widely used with great success, but the most drama-oriented guilds hate it. Why?

Eliminates the power of the Heathers at the center. Heathers hate to lose power.

[Man0warr]

Biggest problem with DKP is it makes a lot of work for whoever is tasked with it's upkeep, burnout rate on those poor officers is high.

[Orruar]

Re: Sadre
^ You are crazy paranoid and overly obsessed with ass fucking.

The point was that DKP can be just as shady as loot council. No matter what system you use, you need good people running it to be effective. And when you have good people running the system, a metric-based loot council will be far more effective and allow the guild to progress faster, thus leading to more loots. There's a reason the majority of top guilds use some form of loot council. And any well run loot council system will have enough transparency to get over your ass fucking paranoia.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Biggest problem with DKP is it makes a lot of work for whoever is tasked with it's upkeep, burnout rate on those poor officers is high.

To be fair, a well run loot council needs to keep track of a lot of data as well.

[maskedmelon]

DKP is inherently more "fair" to individuals because it objectively awards based on investment.

Loot Council is more well reasoned for a guild (not its members) because it prioritizes awards based on the needs of the collective entity over those of individual members. Top guilds employ it for this reason, not because they are moral arbiters of the pixel.

[Orruar]

Fairness is not some objective quality you can measure. As it is subjective, everyone has a differing notion of fairness. In that sense, loot council is more fair in the sense that it doesn't try to hide or deny the subjective nature of loot distribution.

[Erati]

one of the big things that turns me off from loot council is the 'Council vs You' mentality members take on when an item drop doesnt get awarded to THEM

It becomes a mind game and a targeted attack about why each member of the Council felt they didnt deserve the item over Person X. This becomes very personal for the wronged party who usually throws an entire laundry list of 'chores' they did to deserve the item. Constant reassurances that the member was 'close' to receiving the item is required, tho all hell to be paid will be present if the next one does not go his/her way.

Even after reassurances, and even after the council actually has plans to award the next drop similar to that wronged member, the member still usually becomes jaded and their interactions with loot council members outside of raiding or loot decisions become negatively charged as they feel 'anything they do is never enough for them'. Soon it becomes a point of contention where the next little thing that goes awry in the wronged parties mind usually means instant /guildremoval and turncoat tendencies.

Loot council really sucks sometimes, but other than what I described it is one of the best ways for a guild to progress so long as its members believe in the council's decisions

[kaev]

This thread desperately wants to be the poster-child for thatsjustyouropinionman.gif

[Velerin]

Funny thing is in Kunark (outside of VP) so much of the good gear people go crazy about are droppables. If I was really interested in one of those items I'd avoid all the drama, raid the hell out of those mobs with guildies, praise guildies that win them, and just farm some pp and buy one for myself in EC.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DKP puts everyone in charge of their own loot.