Class R

[TMBLOW]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this, join class C if you want to raid VP...its simple AND you will get access to more spawns.

you guys are really sad.

Of course this is what you cling to because it keeps the warm bodies joining the ranks of TMO/IB which keeps the pixels flowing

VP is not some magic place, people are locked out bc of a key not brain function

Stop saying 'try harder' and stop loling at the thought that VP dragons will be killed by a guild tag other than TMO/IB

Class C is a playstyle ( competative 24/7 for every raid mob avail C/FFA )
Class R is a playstyle ( restrictive, having cool downs after successful kills )

The reason the puppets cling to their "join Class C to VP" mantra is because it keeps the pixels flowing for THEM.

If VP were FFA on a REPOP ( this means maybe 1-3 times at most a month lol ) you 'might' once in a while, on occasion, see a guild other than IB/TMO step foot in there.

So its really not even that big of change!!

But for the mere fact that it jeopardizes Class C VP pixels, even if its a 2% chance that a non IB/TMO guild downs a VP dragon.....the outcry would be incredible.

So what game exactly do you guys want to play? It certainly doesnt involve much competition, nor are any of your suggestions involve much of viable change in dynamics.

and like I alrdy said, Class R guilds WOULD join Class C like you said....if there was a clearer direction in how to reverse that process if it fit their members. Without that, it is like I said guild suicide.

[wycca]

There's no denying that using the word "raid" in the same sentence as a mob that has 32k hp is just stupid.

Nevertheless, if you want VP - go to C. There's nothing preventing anyone from dropping the rotation and getting more trak teeth - which is a significant and real barrier to entry. It's also entirely a side effect of being in the rotation. Past that, it's all organization & desire. If you don't got it, don't expect all the rewards to fall in your lap. It's everyones choice on how they play, but you can't expect every playstyle to have the same rewards.

The argument to make all repops FFA and to eliminate the FFA category from normal mobs is a good one - that's why I proposed it in the FAP forum months ago. It's a smart way to allow some competition (which believe it or not a majority of the R guilds want), without the stupidity of Cothduck-quest and poopsocks that Class C and FFA consists of.

On the flip side, this is all moot shortly. Velious being FFA is going to allow things to sort out, and I'll tell you that EVERY guild (yes every guild) is woefully unprepared for Velious. It's anyone's game....as long as people have some vision and are willing to put in some work. What's likely to happen is the guilds who don't do anything to make their future better (ie prepare for Velious) and don't get the resources ready (ie trackers & coth bots) in advance are going to be outclassed. Then they'll whine later about how unfair it all is....when they could've been spending the last 5 months (and the next 4 months) working to make their lot better. Yes, beta is a great resource, and people that don't have an ounce of foresight to see how insanely amazing having it available as a tool to hone your competitiveness for the next several years is...just needs to be banned from complaining.

While I respect and consider friends much of the R guild leadership that I talk to and have worked with, I am absolutely appalled at the utter lack of focus they've given Beta & prepping for Velious, and it's going to hurt their guilds' success immensely. Even C guilds have been making poor use of beta. So yea, Velious is gonna be a popcorn show, guilds will fold, new ones will be born, and don't say I didn't tell ya. It's quite possible that the guilds that simply show up (IB, TMO, and Taken) will end up doing well merely by dint of showing up, but there's room for a smart guild who is prepared to be a winner too...except nobody is taking advantage of that path. Total lack of foresight.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and like I alrdy said, Class R guilds WOULD join Class C like you said....if there was a clearer direction in how to reverse that process if it fit their members. Without that, it is like I said guild suicide.

Pretty sure the process is: Don't kill a class C mob for 1 month, then petition a GM to move you to class R. Pretty clear direction imo.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Servellious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

effort

Effort/Dedication being the usual code words for "staring at my computer screen doing nothing".

Also Cobble my prediction for a long time has been that the 10ish R guilds will just melt away when Velious comes, forming 1-2 new C guilds and 7-8 true R guilds. Most R guillds have small cores of people who do 90% of the work and they don't really care because they have all the pixels they can get anyway. When Velious comes and their warm bodies are training them in ToV and missing CH chains and generally fucking up its going to get tiring real fast. That combined with the presumably smaller focus on FTE in Velious and the huge amount of gear.

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea but the thing is vp is meant to make a guild choose between c or r.

I disagree, Merkk - VP was the piece that Class R still wanted, but didn't get, as part of the decision that was made by Rogean.

As part of the compromise, both sides (C and R) weren't going to walk away happy. VP and the FFA cycle were those points for R, # of dedicated spawns to R was the point for C.

I'm surprised that my posts in Raid Discussion took this long to gain some RnF footing - the point of my posts was to try to inspire some conversation to continue to improve and stablize the raid scene on multiple fronts. Tracking, CotH ducking, socking, FFA "competition", lack of "progression" from R to C (which will NEVER work, because it is a difference in approaches to the game).

If nothing else, the second post regarding trackers and engagement bans for all characters in zone is reasonable and controls CotH ducking, kiting, etc.

[jcr4990]

ITT: Class C raid members that forgot C stands for "Competitive"

Explain to me why a rotation of Class R / FFA / Class R / FFA on every mob in the game is a bad thing. You guys DO want Competition right? Or do you just want free/easy pixels in VP? Reading this thread its kinda feeling like the latter is true.

[Shinko]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Class R people want to experience VP, they have their options:

- Join a Class C guild
- Have their existing guild upgrade to Class C
- Go do it on another server

[toosweet]

Welfare guilds always wanting more.
The server owes its to them right?
They got kids they need to feed and somebody(not them) needs to be held accountable.

[Jfertal]

I'll cut you

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by eqmaze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just make it so that once a Class R guild gets 15 Trakanon kills they become Class C. >=D

Going rotation only, that would take two years and by then you've already bled half of your vp keys to ib/tmo.