Group vs. Solo

[Doors]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do the Devs have any intention of looking into the non-classic solo exp rates far exceeding group exp?

Pet nerfs, 50% damage nerf, dot nerfs. Get a clue before complaining. Calling caster classes that can solo "exploiting" just because they can solo is retarded.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet nerfs, 50% damage nerf, dot nerfs. Get a clue before complaining. Calling caster classes that can solo "exploiting" just because they can solo is retarded.

Calling out a dude on a 2.5-year-old post? Niiicce.

[Recusco]

As someone that made a CLR first and tried grouping, its not going well. At all.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the problem here is that people expect EQ to be like Starcraft: log in, put up LFG, warp to well-balanced XP group within 5 minutes. Obviously you can start right away if you are solo.

Its not hard to find xp groups. My monk was in a great Nurga/Droga group last night. If you are L35, for example, you can do /who all 30 40 to find out where people are and /who all 30 40 lfg to find other people lfg. Head to the hot zones, and don't be afraid to form groups or play with 'nonstandard' class mixes. Sure it may not be optimal xp, but some xp is better than no xp and its fun to try and make something a little unorthodox work. For example, I did a warrior/enchanter 2-man group that worked ok once.

P.S. wow what a thread necro

I agree somewhat. This is mostly how I approach the game.

But I'll admit that I think it would be better with a new group experience system more similar to what it's on the live progression server. The first time i was exposed to this sort of experience system was when I was paying Shadowbane. So I was interested in it before they added it to the progression server. Basically, the experience you get for killing something is the same whether you're solo or group. So if you get 100 experience for a kill while soloing you'll get 100 for the same kill while in a group. However, since you can have up to 6 people, you can potentially earn up to 6x experience. The good thing is that no matter who you invite, they'll be able to add something and thus speed up the process. The system doesn't discriminate. The only problem is that it heavily favors groupers and makes soloers feel left out. It can also lead to PLing if not done right. I don't know exactly how they resolved all of hte probems on the live progression server. I myself still haven't considered all of the potential problems with it. But I"m sure with enough thought and foresight it could be very functional.

I'm fine with the experience penalties. I play a lot hybrids.

People have to realize that p1999 is top heavy. It has been top heavy for a while. There're still lots of new players, but you have to keep in mind that it's made worse because p1999 only has 300-1000 players at any single moment, while live had 1500-2500. For these reasons and potentially others, this causes a lot of players to select solo-classes because they can't find groups. And this is even more pronounced now than it might have been in the classic era because people have more knowledge about the game. It leads to hybrid groups.

I played a ranger during live. Created a couple. One in 1999 and one in 2001. I never looked at my experience bar. Played a stupid length of time and was still low level but never cared because it was truly amazing. I joined lots of different groups and soloed some too. Generally, soloing is effective because you don't have to group with dumb and deal with their problems and you keep more money/items/etc. But soloing gets boring pretty quick because it's so exact and there's a lack of communication. In a group there's a lot more surprises and more talking going on. Makes it a lot more interesting. However, sometimes the group wastes tons of time forming or reforming or making up for lost time because someone did something real real stupid.

I don't have a class on p1999 that's over 24. The vast majority aren't over 17. In total, I've probably played for a couple dozen days (or a bit more) on /played since I arrived here in late 2009. I'm not playing right now and haven't for almost a year. I love the -low- levels in EQ. Corpse runs are quick. I like to help the new players. I like being around the cities and doing the low level quests and learning the lore. I have group-based and solo-based alts. If I can't find a group on one or another I'll log on the soloer. There're always things to do. Twinking isn't something I did. I wanted to see the world from a new player perspective and group like that. And btw the results of all of it were that there're a surprising number of low level quests to do. I found that a lot of new players didn't know about them. I think that this kind of hurts things somewhat. But you have to keep in mind that classic eq, while it had a lot of quests, many of them were limited by spawn rates and/or congestion and/or other factors. If you were the only one doing it it could be very useful. And then there was probably the biggest problem that finding information for quest meant using allahkazam or asking in chat or being hte luckiest player alive. Generally, quests in classic eq aren't the intuitive sort... the items you need can be in all sorts of crazy out of the way places. With this in mind, the experience/item rewards are often too low.

Classic EQ is a beautiful game. I was just in the EQ1 and EQ2 forums and I have to say that those games are a total wreck. They're mudflated profit-driven disasters. I feel so much sorrow for them. I played on live until early 2010 so I'm not speaking from ignorance. Lots of players still play them and like them, but from my perspective they're intolerable. The tricks that the company plays, the sloppiness, the feel of everything, is dirty. Classic EQ is not a perfect game by any means. If I could remake it I'd change a lot. But there're a lot of things I do like. And classic EQ was a different game because it lacked all the instances and changes made to the game later on. Most of those changes were a response to the top-heaviness, but some were also a response to WoW and the easy-mode crowd of players. The game just evolved in a direction that doesn't interest me.

I'd say that the mudflation in old(er) games is the biggest turn off for me. I mean, if EQ2 had a progression server, I'd be a #%!! of a lot more interested. But they're not interested in making something like that. And with all the changes they've made to the game, I doubt they could do any kind of rollback.

I'll also admit there's some mudflation even in p1999. Kunark added some. Velious will too. But the distance between expansions is so great in classic and p1999 moves so slowly it's less severe. And there's the additional factor that without 10+ expansions, the old zones are still useful and you don't outlevel as fast.

In the end, the non-profit nature of p1999 is I think its most awesome feature.

[robite234]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This Thread. http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=86713

Orruar's list and Idea. It is pretty much right on. The idea of the thread was just one area per level. But you could stay for several levels in each area. Some as much as 10 levels I would guess from my experiences.

thanks for the info, it helps but the problem is a new player can't afford all the frequent travel.

[formallydickman]

Originally Posted by robite234 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thanks for the info, it helps but the problem is a new player can't afford all the frequent travel.

Generally speaking if you tip what you can tip, folks won't be upset.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Don't worry all, I got this one. I bookmarked this thread, and I'll make sure to resurrect it by commenting on sometime late 2015. So, you can stop now.

[Resheph]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why this focus on solo play? This server has a good population, with lots of friendly people. Everquest's focus has always been about group interaction. Working together to camp current content.

I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself. I think a lot of first-timers (or returning vets new to Project 1999) want a solo class so they can level one up and finance their alts. While the server has a good community and people are active, lower level zones will be less populated than higher level ones. It was true back in the day, it's true now on pretty much all MMOs.

[stormlord]

One of the problem is twinkies, err twinkers. They suit up in some fancy gear and then they go on a killing spree. They see a newbie and wonder if they should group with them. But then the thought is smashed as they contemplate that in this era each group member gives you 2% extra experience, for a maximum of 10%. However, this assumes that the other group member(s) are contributing to a kill equally. This means that if you make a 2-person group with somebody that's not a twink (and/or are unfamiliar with the game since they're a new player) that if they're only 33% of your output that the 2% experience bonus is destroyed by the relative difference in output. So instead of earning 2% extra, you're probably losing something on the order of 32% of your potential if the other person is only contributing 33% of your output. That's like not getting a 47% runspeed buff. So if you group w/ them you'll be thinking about that 47% gain you get be getting alone.

On p1999, I grouped my alts with new players without twinking. But when I was on live there were many times that I would twink an alt and ignore new players and go my own way. Sometimes I'd buff them.

Here's how I understand to do the math:

Solo (experience is not split):
kill - 100 experience
kill - 100 experience
total = 200 experience

2-person Group (other player is 1/3 of your output):
kill - 51
kill - 51
kill - 51
kill - 51
total = 135.66 (.665 x 204)

If all things are equal then both cases require the same amount of time. This means the other person is exactly the same output and you kill things twice as fast. In this case, you only kill at 1.33x, not 2x!

If you were solo you'd be at 200, not 135.66. 200/135.66 = 1.47. 1.47x!

Ya, the server is top heavy, but they make lots of twinks. Just wanted to address why that's not always helpful to new players. The more important thing is that servers tend to attract less players as they age. This is due to numerous factors, but the most important are that software ages and becomes too expensive to renovate effectively and that the companies developing the game carry with them a momentum that limits their ability to shift to changing trends. Basically, it becomes easier to start a new game than to improve an old one. Along with mudflation - increasing numbers of low level zones, devalued content, etc - this can make the low levels feel empty and shoddy. In this sense, some of the best gaming is found in fresh new games, not old ones.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One of the problem is twinkies, err twinkers. They suit up in some fancy gear and then they go on a killing spree. They see a newbie and wonder if they should group with them. But then the thought is smashed as they contemplate that in this era each group member gives you 2% extra experience, for a maximum of 10%. However, this assumes that the other group member(s) are contributing to a kill equally. This means that if you make a 2-person group with somebody that's not a twink (and/or are unfamiliar with the game since they're a new player) that if they're only 33% of your output that the 2% experience bonus is destroyed by the relative difference in output. So instead of earning 2% extra, you're probably losing something on the order of 32% of your potential if the other person is only contributing 33% of your output. That's like not getting a 47% runspeed buff. So if you group w/ them you'll be thinking about that 47% gain you get be getting alone.

I can't speak for anyone else but when I make alts (I have a lot of them actually...) I refuse to solo as soon as I can get consistent groups. It doesn't matter how geared I've had my twink, (quite twinked, not super uber though) or how much more uber exp I can get while soloing, I always prefer to group and have good times and memories with the other players. I've leveled a bard, monk, enchanter to 50+, and have twink pally, necro, shaman, ranger that I only group with.

This is an MMO, if I wanted to solo I'd go play a console RPG.

The bad side of this is when I'm on my bard and I get tells (daily) of other bards asking me to teach them how to AoE kite and I just say "I never learned, I only grouped." I get some funny responses [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]