Most Valuable Class

[Daldolma]

I don't mean to dismiss bards. They're very useful and a great class. In the absence of an enchanter, they would be the best class for many different camps.

But if we're talking about a vacuum where you can have whatever class you want and whatever group set-up you want, bards are usually not going to be a part of an optimal group. Enchanters are going to be more valuable in almost all settings.

[Tenlaar]

You keep saying enchanters can tank, but that's only true for a group with zero melee DPS in it. And that's just no good. A bard can be tank, puller, and CC in a group with 3-4 melee DPS, which is going to kill way faster than any caster only group.

[Sorrow*qc]

BEAST LORDS

[Destron]

I said that bards can CC just as well as chanters for 95% of camps. And I'll stand by that, it sounds like you haven't grouped with a good bard.

Yeah bard charm breaks, so does chanter, the thing is you can time it pretty well and know when it's going to break. So, for a bard playing at maximum ability the charm is very controllable.

People are not reading the original question very well.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't mean to dismiss bards. They're very useful and a great class. In the absence of an enchanter, they would be the best class for many different camps.

But if we're talking about a vacuum where you can have whatever class you want and whatever group set-up you want, bards are usually not going to be a part of an optimal group. Enchanters are going to be more valuable in almost all settings.

Depends who is playing the bard and who is playing the enchanter. It is always the player behind the keyboard.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep saying enchanters can tank, but that's only true for a group with zero melee DPS in it. And that's just no good. A bard can be tank, puller, and CC in a group with 3-4 melee DPS, which is going to kill way faster than any caster only group.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=73876

Sadly postimage deleted my screenshots, but the short version is that we aggroed the guy that roams above the dropdown to hs west. This was before the assist aggro changes turned HS into a zone for pussies, so we got about 15. And we killed them all.

Enc/Enc/Clr is basically equivalent to a full group of melee, and I say this as someone with a monk and warrior.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Destron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bards can charm and bring dps the same way a chanter can.

When the puller brings two, a bard will charm one for 30s while the group kills the first one.

Meanwhile the enchanter has a permanently charmed hasted dual-wielding pet that fights both mobs.

2x for time, 2x for dual wielding, 1.5x for haste = 6x as much charmed pet damage.

And this is really the rub: if it wasn't for charm being WTF op, Enchanters, Shamans, and Bards would all be about equal in groups, with a slight edge to the bard.

[Tenlaar]

Yeah, and five enchanters and a cleric is awesome too. But the OP was obviously asking about normal grouping situations. Not pre-planned groups, not gimick groups, not "let's do everything to take advantage of a semi-broken mechanic" groups. Just plain old groups.

[Fael]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most of your premises are false. Bards can't CC as well as a good enchanter, particularly at the higher end. But even at the lower end, a good enchanter is a more effective CC'er than an equally good bard.

Bards can't charm nearly as effectively as enchanters can, either. Not even close.

Of course bards are not as good as enchanters. But was that the question? Certainly I would think enchanters and shamen are the best class for all types of situations. But if its a normal kunark exp group, I'd personally rather have a bard for pulling/tanking/charm,etc and an enchanter in the group for charm dps, mez, mana. I don't think you would need or want a shamen in that sort of situation. Why would you, they can just duo or trio?

Bards may not be the best, but a well played bard stands a great chance to make any given exp group go efficiently. The same can prob be said of enchanters and monks.
Or any really good puller with knowledge of how the zone pathing works, regardless of class.

Dolic

[Fael]

most importantly, i have a lot more fun playing a bard in a group setting than an enchanter or shamen, regardless of the fact that they are not as powerful.


Dolic