With all due respect, Sirken, you're no Solomon.

[Melissa]

wtb revamped planes...

[radditsu]

Wtb sex for pennies.

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wtb sex for pennies.

Send pics pls

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Send pics pls

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[goshozal]

Hmm. Your avatar pic is misleading. If you were more like the guy with the stache in the helmet, we could talk.

I really do look just like Benny Hill, btw.

[Aaron]

Every proposal presented so far seems to be favorable to casual guilds.

It seems like BDA specifically wants more than the others.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Aaron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every proposal presented so far seems to be favorable to casual guilds.

It seems like BDA specifically wants more than the others.

Uh what?

BDA has primarily been arguing on the raid forums on two fronts:

1) That whatever plan is concocted, that casual guilds (non-TMO/IB/FE) should have a fair allocation of epic mobs, so that way someone doesn't have to go into a type of hardcore raiding they dislike to live out their nostalgic dreams of earning an epic.

2) The staff's plan should be the focus, and negotiating should be concise based on fixing the issues with that plan, rather than proposing new proposals to counter proposals from other counter-proposals to original proposals.

Further, it was elaborated numerous times that BDA has little issue discussing and coming to arrangements with the other casual guilds on rotations, or other policies of friendly raiding to make the raiding scene more enjoyable and accessible for those in the Tier 2 position.

The idea behind the Staff Plan is to separate the guilds into Tiers, Tier 1 and Tier 2, in which all mobs (other than VP), as they die, swap to the other tier. So if a Tier 1 guild kills CT, then the next time CT spawns, Tier 2 gets to kill it. if Tier 2 takes too long to kill it, then it becomes FFA for Tier 1 to claim. As it is written on the main proposal, once CT goes back to Tier 1, a separate guild needs to claim it.

A reasonable issue with this was brought up by FE, in that if FE+IB kills CT, and then a Tier 2 guild kills CT, it comes back, it now must be TMO, which creates a rotation. I am certain absolutely no one on the Tier 2 side would have any issue allowing Tier 1 guilds to make all kills on the Tier 1 side FFA, and by whatever rules they want.

The point is that Tier 1 players (hardcores) should be allowed to play in a hardcore way with their share of the mobs, plus all of VP (with VP, and the chance at far more kills being the main motivation to become a hardcore raider), while Tier 2 raiders (casuals) should be able to commit to friendly raiding on their half of all VP-mobs.

The vast majority of the kills (I believe it was 4-6x more, equaling out to around 2 mobs per day all month for the hardcores to fight for, and 1 kill a week for each guild in the casual) is with the competitive side. But the casual side is assured to be able to make up their own system of rotation, or play nice policies that include epic mobs so that a casual player can earn their epic without joining a type of raiding they feel is toxic, or without paying the top guild that has those mobs on lock down.

Sorry, I don't see that as greedy, I really don't. Hardcores get to exist within a hardcore sphere of players, and casuals get to exist within a casual sphere of players. If a guild wants to work their way up and get a lot more kills, they can join TMO/IB/FE, and any other guild that wants the higher amount of kills (4-6x), and play on hardcore raiding terms. In other words, let the hardcores hardcore, and let the casuals casual.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I'd just say that if the intent is to relive the classic experience, you must define it. For some classic was hardcore raiding, others casual raiding in a rotation. Others still an open raid environment. So if this is to be a 'classic experience' server, must you not cater to all of those, and not one over the others? I don't think increasing content is classic, however we did have more spawns as a result of patching, and the fact guilds were forced to progress (which the OP covered).

And while Velious, and a new server seem like great ideas it is a temporary fix. It wouldn't prevent the same people from creating the same problem, or another guild to go to that second server and create the same problem there.

And someone mentioned it earlier, how this game's currency has always. It always has been those willing to devote more time that reap the rewards, and they (who define that as 'hardcore') should absolutely reap the rewards as we/they did in classic eq. But we don't have multiple servers to choose from (blue), and we don't have progression room. Not a fault of anyone, but it is the reality. What was truly classic about time invested and how it related to the top guilds was that those willing to invest more time got more loots. Due to said lack of progression that has been twisted and tainted, it isn't about time spent improving and progressing, it has become something else entirely here. The time isn't spent towards progressing and remaining 'top dawgs' it has become time spent stagnating, and stagnation has poisoned the server in a fashion.

I was asked by someone if we wanted handouts. No, we don't want handouts, but we do want a fair shot at experiencing classic everquest. As the OP said, you can't compare this server to classic because of the limited resources and space for players available. Twitter and social media, instant messaging changes the way we do things. Having over a decade of prior of knowledge and experience changes things.You all can scream about casuals wanting free loots, and unable to 'compete, but the meaning of the word 'competition' or 'race' here is totally different. You aren't forced to pay for your accounts so right there you can stop with 'in classic'. A lot of us aren't on dialup so that ends that too. Using Roger Wilco or Twitter? Mass texts or emails?

Do sport change as players and society adapt and evolve? You can't play pro football the same way you played it in 1920, and you can't think the same dynamic exists inside a game released in 1999. You just can't approach it in a naive fashion thinking it will be the same, there are different external forces at work. I truly wonder if all of the people shouting 'classic' actually played from release through velious, or joined late and think they understand how it all was back then.

If you want another analogy, mine is a literal sandbox. You would play in there with your siblings or friends as a young child, and inevitably one would want to play with a toy the other had; be it a bucket, Tonka truck, a shovel, etc. The responsible parent or person watching us inevitably would step in once the crying or fighting started, and sooner or later it came down to sharing, usually forced sharing by the more mature individual.

We as people in society have to accede or compromise and adhere to certain rules regarding behavior in order to function as a society. Yet within our own small community some of you adamantly refuse to cooperate, or share, or concede anything so that we in our own little world can work as anything except what I can only call dysfunctional.

[mattkwi]

The GMs owe nothing to anyone. They own and operate and you play voluntarily. If you don't like it, don't play. No small guilds ever went to Verant or Sony and demanded more raid targets because they could not get them on their own.

If the GMs want smaller guilds to have clean shots at raid targets then they should just implement a ruling themselves. Asking the players to work it out and then attempting to control the outcome by forcing a compromise is just pissing people off. If you want in on the targets there are means. You can do this through alliance (more resources), force, or politics. It is no ones responsibility to hand it out. Infact it wasn't that smaller guilds didn't get content that got the server here, it was The guilds at the top taking it to far. That should be the problem being addressed. Guilds who can and do kill and control the content owe nothing to anyone. Just like the GMs don't either. And if they want a compromise they should en force it themselves.

Everyone is right. It's all about play style and personal differences. It's a MMO. You work it out yourself unless someone is breaking specified rules. Everquest was that way and this server should be that way. If you want it, find a way. Form an alliance so you have more resources to track and park. Use your own force on targets you want one at a time. Create an agreement with a larger guild. If your not interested, so be it. Don't demand mechanics change and that everyone needs to share just because you play here too. They don't.

IMO just address the bad behavior of the guilds killing the targets ( staggered engages or some sort of play nice policy). If you want the big guilds to give up targets then let them decide how to do that. If you want to ensure it happens then instead of Sirkens idea being a proposal, make it policy.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd just say that if the intent is to relive the classic experience, you must define it. For some classic was hardcore raiding, others casual raiding in a rotation. Others still an open raid environment. So if this is to be a 'classic experience' server, must you not cater to all of those, and not one over the others? I don't think increasing content is classic, however we did have more spawns as a result of patching, and the fact guilds were forced to progress.

That's the beauty I find behind the staff plan. Hardcores can define their classic experience as hardcore raiding, amongst themselves. Casuals can define their classic experience of rotations and friendly raiding, amongst themselves. So long as the two tiers of players, the two types of players, can agree to let mobs go back and forth between them, awesome.

Casuals give up ever bringing a casual atmosphere to VP, even if they got the keys, and if they ever want to, they need to play on the hardcore terms. In exchange, casuals get to work in a rotation, or some form of friendly competitive raiding, that includes epic mobs, so people can earn their epics without buying them.

Let each experience what each wants, and it can be done in such a way that the experience of one isn't degrading to the other. No, it wont be a full classic experience, this server isn't a true classic experience, but it will give everyone a chance to sort themselves into one of the styles, and enjoy their classic experience.

Surely, the ideal would be to have a hardcore blue, and casual blue server, but that's asking a bit too much I think. Instead, this is the second best thing.