Sirken's proposal

[Daldaen]

I fail to grasp the argument that hours tracking and the ability to muster a raid force at all hours, is described by the word "effort".

These guilds are still tanking, healing, DPSing the raid mobs. The mobs are getting slowed and debuffed, pulled and CC'd. People are still having to Rez on wipes and rebuff.

Blue is PvE. They are putting in the effort to beat the NPC Environment the game places before them.

The raid environment is a player created phenomena. Suggesting people don't deserve pixels from the actual NPC environment because they don't enjoy the same player driven competition as you, is foolish.

[Mezzmur]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I fail to grasp the argument that hours tracking and the ability to muster a raid force at all hours, is described by the word "effort".

These guilds are still tanking, healing, DPSing the raid mobs. The mobs are getting slowed and debuffed, pulled and CC'd. People are still having to Rez on wipes and rebuff.

Blue is PvE. They are putting in the effort to beat the NPC Environment the game places before them.

The raid environment is a player created phenomena. Suggesting people don't deserve pixels from the actual NPC environment because they don't enjoy the same player driven competition as you, is foolish.

I don't turn on my PS3 and play call of duty and ask for all guns, skins, power ups, etc the second I turn it on. People who have been faithful to the server and have played since 2010 (like myself) will ALWAYS have an advantage because they've put more time into the game. This is about trying to share with people without buttfucking those that have been around a long time or are more interested in the hardcore gaming style.

Read this post:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...25#post1254125

[Dirkus]

Originally Posted by Mezzmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't turn on my PS3 and play call of duty and ask for all guns, skins, power ups, etc the second I turn it on. People who have been faithful to the server and have played since 2010 (like myself) will ALWAYS have an advantage because they've put more time into the game. This is about trying to share with people without buttfucking those that have been around a long time or are more interested in the hardcore gaming style.

Read this post:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...25#post1254125

The problem with your analogy is that there aren't a limited number of guns etc to go around. People with full time jobs and families can still obtain these things but at their own pace. On P99 you have to be hardcore to even have the chance at these pixels.

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Mezzmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't turn on my PS3 and play call of duty and ask for all guns, skins, power ups, etc the second I turn it on.

This is a bad example, they aren't wanting to be level 60 epic BiS once they hit the create character button.

instead think of cod, you get exp per kill for those guns if you had to sit and wait 10+ hours to find one guy to kill to get that exp, doesn't that seem a little extreme?

[Mezzmur]

Ok. How about getting an FBSS. Camp frenzy or farm pp?

Now you're given a free shot at frenzy already spawned with some items and no interference.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Dirkus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with your analogy is that there aren't a limited number of guns etc to go around. People with full time jobs and families can still obtain these things but at their own pace. On P99 you have to be hardcore to even have the chance at these pixels.

Until now. Now there is a chance for those with families and responsibilities to obtain them, in every single proposal.

Oh wait. Only the ones which take the most from FE/IB and TMO are acceptable.

[-Catherin-]

Taking off for the weekend now. hope to see a better server when I return [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Mezzmur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't turn on my PS3 and play call of duty and ask for all guns, skins, power ups, etc the second I turn it on.

So your CoD guns are contingent on you winning every single match? Or can you still get those guns if you lost every single match you ever played (it would just take longer)? How does you getting guns stop your clan-buddy from getting guns? Also, when you play CoD, you can attack your enemy to reach that objective? Or do the two sides just run at the objective and stand next to it together?

[Funkutron5000]

For people that missed this exchange in Sirken's Proposal Thread:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tiers should reflect a differentiation of playstyles between guilds
Tiers should not reflect the quality of loot from each mob.

This seems to be a major sticking point between our two parties.

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See, this is where you are wrong.

The guilds who are willing to put in more time and effort in any MMO are ALWAYS going to reap the most, and the best, rewards.. Yes, on Project 1999 that unfortunately means that the TMO's and FE/IB's and TR's are going to get most of the 'top tier' mobs, because they are simply willing to invest time and effort into the raid scene that the other guilds are not.

To be clear, tracking a mob over a 48+ hr window IS effort. Mobilizing for that mob with your camped out alt army IS time and effort. I understand why you don't want to play that game, and I agree with you on that point. I would not want to do so either. However, they should not be penalized and have their merbs taken away because they are willing to do so and you are not.

TMO/FE gave the opposing side several GENEROUS offers that included a huge range of mobs. FE even hesitantly agreed to Prop C, which, despite your protests, was in fact heavily weighted towards casuals. Just because it didn't have 'enough' ct/trak/vs/inny kills did not mean it wasn't in your favor.

Want the best pixels? Put the time in to get them. If another guild is putting more time and effort into those pixels, why do you deserve them as much as they do?

This is pretty much how I feel. I won't speak for Sirken, but I think he feels the same way too. The point of this was not to get casuals an even 50/50 split on mobs outside of VP. It was to allow you guys to get a little more than you were getting previously, which was pretty much 0, and to clean up some of the shenanigans that were happening on the raid scene. I see no reason why TMO/FE should accept any proposal that they feel doesn't give them what they've earned. And yes, they have earned it. Not every engage in the past year has been filled with bullshit and shenanigans. 80% of encounters go just fine.

They made concessions to give a huge number of mobs for you guys to put on rotation, and you turned it down because 'it is not enough of the mobs we want'. I guess raiding is only fun and enjoyable if you're always getting the best targets with the best pixels, right?

I really do hope you guys can work out a deal, because I really do want ALL of the casual guilds to have targets to raid all month long. I think it supports server growth, lets everyone have fun, and lets everyone experience this great game we call Everquest. I also hope it happens soon, because I do not like having to suspend the entire server while this gets worked out. But I can tell you that if I was TMO or FE, I'd tell you guys to go back to the drawing board and try again, because I sure as hell would not be giving up targets I'd been fighting to earn the past year+.

[Daldaen]

In call of duty, generally speaking, you are competing against other players. So not a great comparison. Even then, your inability to log in at all hours or spend 10 hours spamming 1 button... Doesn't hinder your ability to achieve 99% of that stuff. On P99, those inabilities or unwillingness from casual players, does stop you from getting most all raid gear, and epics from dragons/raid mobs. Without paying plat or RMTing for it.

People aren't asking to be handed the gear, just given the chance to fight for it without having to wake up at 3 AM or log on mid afternoon at work. Or track for 24 hours. They just want a chance to be able to log on every week and fight A dragon. Not all 20 raid targets. But one or two.

In what regard are you (as a high end raider) getting buttfucked? You keep VP regardless of what happens, that's 6 dragons every week. And I think most of the plans that have been proposed suggest you would retain over half or about half of the non-VP raid mobs. So you keep the majority of the content split between 2-3 guilds, while the other 8-10 guilds split the other half. I think the time/reward there is fine.

EDIT: Your frenzied example is better, but still off. It has PHers, it isn't poopsocked and it is often uncamped at all hours of the day. I got the camp at like 5PM EST on a weekend a few weeks back for example. All players can have a free shot if they wait a day or two or three. What was the last time that a dragon was alive for several hours during an evening on a weekend or even a weekday? I'm willing to bet (excluding this), it's been many a month.

Or when was the last time when you asked the person killing frenzied to let you know when they were done with the camp. LOL. I'd love to see TMO get a tell from Taken during their Trakanon where TMO replies with "sure! Next Trakanon is all yours". Like that would or has ever happened.