Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You must have missed the FE boat when they went into VP, guess you didn't hear. They killed Druushk with the same rules implemented now. As far as dedication and motivation to stick it out and keep getting kills is another story. And the whole "they have more trainers then us" is complete bullshit. FE in there prime had a shit ton of them. Proof is in the pudding - skill over numbers.

You completely missed what I was saying. I don't care about the past and what mechanics were in place then. Variance wasn't always here...Extended Variance wasn't always here. FTE shouts just got added. This means that to get any mob in the game right now you have to first track it. After tracking it and seeing that it is up you have to then get a force to it to get FTE and kill it. The shout lets guilds know exactly who has FTE and for other guilds to back off. It has worked well so far from what I have seen of it. I was not complaining about the current mechanics in the game. No guild is wrong for using training when the current rules allows them to. I am saying look at the mechanics that are in the game. Training isn't needed to determine anything in any zone. It is just griefing by all parties at this point. WHOEVER does it.

Now to respond to your statement. I don't have a VP key. I wasn't around when training started between the 2 guilds in VP and honestly it has no relevance in the discussion I am trying to have. This isn't about just VP...It is about future zones as well. Now I know you enjoy playing the game a certain way Sericx because you have become accustomed to it. I am saying look at the current mechanics the GMs have put into the game. It looks like they set up the perfect competition for every guild that wants to raid for racing a certain way. Training another guild is not a mechanic that fits into the competition inside or outside of VP. It is at this point a griefing tool.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training is not a mechanic that fits into the competition inside or outside of VP. It is at this point a griefing tool.

A tool most often utilized by your new guild.

[Sckrilla]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A tool most often utilized by your new guild.

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A tool most often utilized by your new guild.

Listen... Hard feelings aside by all parties... Because it is your former guild too. As you well know guild members change frequently in most guilds. No guild is innocent of training. We all know that if you have been to more than one raid encounter on this server. This is not about what has happened before. This is a discussion about what the current mechanics of the game are and how it represents a good competition between guilds without having to train each other because we hold grudges. There is a set of mechanics in place on this server that allows for great competition by the people willing to compete with those mechanics. Why would any of us at this point want to train each other except for old grudges or griefing ? Makes no sense with the current mechanics in the raid scene.

Not one single person here can change anything that has happened over the past 3 years between this guild or that guild. We can however have a competition going forward that the current mechanics added to the game allows for without the griefing. Again this isn't about one zone. Velious is on the horizon. I think the mechanics added by the GMs show a clear picture of how they prefer the raid scene to play out. I don't think anyone can make a sound argument for why training another guild is a viable solution in certain zones. If your guild can't mobilize and win a race to a mob to kill it (All guilds here not just TMO) then training shouldn't be a solution anywhere to be a fail safe because you couldn't get enough people there.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A tool most often utilized by your new guild.

Yo go to rants and flames please we're trying to have a discussion to.help the raid scene more closely resemble what it was on live. Training was never allowed or sanctiones by gms.

[Handull]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You must have missed the FE boat when they went into VP, guess you didn't hear. They killed Druushk with the same rules implemented now. As far as dedication and motivation to stick it out and keep getting kills is another story. And the whole "they have more trainers then us" is complete bullshit. FE in there prime had a shit ton of them. Proof is in the pudding - skill over numbers.

confirmed, FE has always had more VP keyed toons than TMO.

[Wrei]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You must have missed the FE boat when they went into VP, guess you didn't hear. They killed Druushk with the same rules implemented now. As far as dedication and motivation to stick it out and keep getting kills is another story. And the whole "they have more trainers then us" is complete bullshit. FE in there prime had a shit ton of them. Proof is in the pudding - skill over numbers.

Come on that IS funny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So in short, Rogean seems to say it isn't like live and we implemented training cause I don't have to explain myself to you guys (or have my judgement questioned) but open to changes if warranted. Sirken seems to favour Darwinism to take place, fight fire with fire and earn respect by being bigger douches than TMO.

Instead of logically trying to explain how it's better one way or another, it would be nice to have a server poll started by the server staff (to prevent trolling) that asks everyone if they are happy with the current raiding rules/policies. If the server sits at 50/50 then status quo should be preserved. If there is however an overwhelming side towards changes another poll should then be started regarding "viable" alternative rules.

I say viable, because it's clear this is still a privately run emu and not all options would be realistically available (especially those that require increased moderation or coding modifications). If the server staff isn't even willing to do that then one of the players should start the thread here. Those who are passionate about changes should then spread the word through word of mouth on the server and keep the poll running for about a week. Anything over 500+ responses should be pretty legitimate. If that doesn't prompt changes from the staff then I doubt very little would change the policy. At that point you just need to get with the program or GTFO.

Each side has their own arguments with its own flaws and merits. This shouldn't be arguing pointlessly about who is right but more about if people are happy playing under current conditions.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Come on that IS funny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So in short, Rogean seems to say it isn't like live and we implemented training cause I don't have to explain myself to you guys (or have my judgement questioned) but open to changes if warranted. Sirken seems to favour Darwinism to take place, fight fire with fire and earn respect by being bigger douches than TMO.

Instead of logically trying to explain how it's better one way or another, it would be nice to have a server poll started by the server staff (to prevent trolling) that asks everyone if they are happy with the current raiding rules/policies. If the server sits at 50/50 then status quo should be preserved. If there is however an overwhelming side towards changes another poll should then be started regarding "viable" alternative rules.

I say viable, because it's clear this is still a privately run emu and not all options would be realistically available (especially those that require increased moderation or coding modifications). If the server staff isn't even willing to do that then one of the players should start the thread here. Those who are passionate about changes should then spread the word through word of mouth on the server and keep the poll running for about a week. Anything over 500+ responses should be pretty legitimate. If that doesn't prompt changes from the staff then I doubt very little would change the policy. At that point you just need to get with the program or GTFO.

Each side has their own arguments with its own flaws and merits. This shouldn't be arguing pointlessly about who is right but more about if people are happy playing under current conditions.

The best human entertainment comes from conquering something you perceive to be greater than yourself or by strife. If there wasn't competition for mates/resources/whatever humanity would die of boredom. Due to scarcity some percentage of humanity will always be unhappy(provided scarcity exists forever). So doing a poll on whether or not people are happy is really a moot point. This is a raid scarcity server... people will be unhappy if what they want is raids. Just like people were un-happy in leveling zones the past week when so many more people were exping.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If there wasn't competition for mates/resources/whatever humanity would die of boredom.

Which is what would happen if the GM's gave in to a re-distribution of wealth motive for "leveling the playing field" by making the acquisition of hand-outs easier.

[Zapatos]

I had no failure in understanding what you wrote, Sirken.

The point of VD being corpse camped wasn't to highlight their naivety, it was to show that people WILL take revenge on that kind of behavior and the training spirals out of control. And it wasn't all of tmo, it was roughly 3-5 core individuals who started it.. who still do it... thrive off it and will stay up 20 hours at a time doing it because they love griefing people off this box probably more than the next person loves jerking it.

Oh right and they're the leaders of tmo, thank you zeelot.