Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll put odds of this statement being true at 0.0000001%

It is much more likely all of those votes are yourself with a VPN and all the people who are already trolling. You have no proof this data is legit lol. You don't need a poll to know how many people are trolling in this thread, they just keep posting to remind us.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is much more likely all of those votes are yourself with a VPN and all the people who are already trolling. You have no proof this data is legit lol.

Oh what a surprise. Someone provides data against you and you claim it's illegitimate. Never seen that before [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I legit called it in my head lol. I knew I'd make a poll and it would go against you by a landslide and you'd claim I cheated lol. What a joke.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mana-wise the Mage is far worse off, they will not be nuking at all after a few more mobs. Once the Mage has drained their mana pool, they can only nuke every 84 seconds because they can only regenerate 200 mana per minute. The test was not using C2. The Shaman can easily keep their mana up due to breaks in mobs, mobs that die a bit slower, etc. Remember I am testing under the assumption that the group is fighting a mob every 36 seconds without break, which is honestly unrealistic.

Also remember this is making the assumption your group is fighting mobs that die in only 36 seconds. A Shaman's DPS increases when a Mob takes longer to die, while a Mage is still bound by their mana.

Why do you keep saying that the Mage DPS bound by mana? I've pointed out repeatedly in this thread that the Mage can output enormous DPS indefinitely with just the pet and clickies. With Velious quest armor pants and robe the Mage doesn't even have to expend mana on pet haste and DS. Boots of Bladecalling alone are 35 DPS, and are a fair gear assumption when comparing against a raid-geared Torpor Shaman.

You're also terribly underestimating just how much stronger the Mage pet is compared to the dinky Shaman pet. Shaman pet is level 39, can't backstab and can't quad. Mage pet is level 49 (with water staff), quads, backstabs for 200 and procs a nuke for over 100. A reliably backstabbing, focused 60 water pet by itself is a DPS chainsaw exceeded only by high-end Velious-geared Rogues and Monks. The Shaman pet will also only be hasted to 50% with Celerity, vs. the Mage pet hasted to 65% with Burnout IV and an additional 11% from Muzzle. The DPS difference between the two pets is night and day, which is to be expected considering the class is built entirely around the pet.

Finally, the Mage does not care how long or short the fight is. As long the fight is sufficient duration to get off a single clickie nuke (17 sec for boots) then the DPS is the same, whether the fight is 17 seconds long or 17,000.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you keep saying that the Mage DPS bound by mana? I've pointed out repeatedly in this thread that the Mage can output enormous DPS indefinitely with just the pet and clickies. With Velious quest armor pants and robe the Mage doesn't even have to expend mana on pet haste and DS. Boots of Bladecalling alone are 35 DPS, and are a fair gear assumption when comparing against a raid-geared Torpor Shaman.

You're also terribly underestimating just how much stronger the Mage pet is compared to the dinky Shaman pet. Shaman pet is level 39, can't backstab and can't quad. Mage pet is level 49 (with water staff), quads, backstabs for 200 and procs a nuke for over 100. A reliably backstabbing, focused 60 water pet by itself is a DPS chainsaw exceeded only by high-end Velious-geared Rogues and Monks. The Shaman pet will also only be hasted to 50% with Celerity, vs. the Mage pet hasted to 65% with Burnout IV and an additional 11% from Muzzle. The DPS difference between the two pets is night and day, which is to be expected considering the class is built entirely around the pet.

Finally, the Mage does not care how long or short the fight is. As long the fight is sufficient duration to get off a single clickie nuke (17 sec for boots) then the DPS is the same, whether the fight is 17 seconds long or 17,000.

"Why do you keep saying that the Mage DPS bound by mana?" The reason is simple. Troxx asked for a parse without clickies lol.

The mage does care about fight length, because that depends how often they can nuke, both with and without clickies.

Let's talk about clickies:

Boots of the Bladecaller can only be clicked once if the mob is dying in less than 34 seconds. If the mobs are dying in 30 seconds, JBB has a DPS of 26, while Boots of the Bladecaller only has 20 DPS. If you want to use Burnt Wood Staff, that is 22 DPS. So a Shaman can out-clickie a Mage in a shorter fight.

A mage is doing 56 (Pet) + 22 (Burnt Wood Staff) + 4 (DS) = 82 DPS on a single target if all they do is spam clickies in 30 second fights.

A Shaman is doing 26 (JBB) + 18 (Pet) = 44 DPS on a single target if all they do is spam clickies in 30 second fights.

If a Shaman needs to increase DPS more, they could do a single cast of Winters Roar after the clickies (JBB is 24 seconds, Winters roar is 4 seconds for a total of 28) to increase their DPS by 9, so it would go back to roughly 52 DPS. The gap is still around 30 DPS, and the group would need to chain pull 20 mobs back to back for the Shaman to run out of mana. That is not really possible in Crypt or a lot of other higher level areas.

And remember, if your group is able to chain pull and kill mobs in Sebilis, the Shaman can also root/rot with Epic. A Shaman can Single Bane + Epic DoT 2 mobs for 68 DPS while the group is churning through other mobs. With pet that puts them up to 84 DPS. If a group can chain pull that many mobs back to back, there are plenty to root/rot hehe. The mana cost for that would be 1050 mana, and a Shaman can get that back in roughly 70 seconds. The group can then finish the rooted mobs off as they get around to it, or let the Shaman continue to DPS independently and kill them that way. If you really wanted efficiency in a group, you wouldn't simply chain pull single mobs. You could kill multiple mobs at the same time instead, but a Mage can't really do that since they are basically a single target damage class.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Why do you keep saying that the Mage DPS bound by mana?" The reason is simple. Troxx asked for a parse without clickies lol.

The mage does care about fight length, because that depends how often they can nuke, both with and without clickies.

Let's talk about clickies:

Boots of the Bladecaller can only be clicked once if the mob is dying in less than 34 seconds. If the mobs are dying in 30 seconds, JBB has a DPS of 26, while Boots of the Bladecaller only has 20 DPS. If you want to use Burnt Wood Staff, that is 22 DPS. So a Shaman can out-clickie a Mage in a shorter fight.

A mage is doing 56 (Pet) + 22 (Burnt Wood Staff) + 4 (DS) = 82 DPS on a single target if all they do is spam clickies in 30 second fights.

A Shaman is doing 26 (JBB) + 18 (Pet) = 44 DPS on a single target if all they do is spam clickies in 30 second fights.

If a Shaman needs to increase DPS more, they could do a single cast of Winters Roar after the clickies (JBB is 24 seconds, Winters roar is 4 seconds for a total of 28) to increase their DPS by 9, so it would go back to roughly 52 DPS. The gap is still around 30 DPS, and the group would need to chain pull 20 mobs back to back for the Shaman to run out of mana. That is not really possible in Crypt or a lot of other higher level areas.

And remember, if your group is able to chain pull and kill mobs in Sebilis, the Shaman can also root/rot with Epic. A Shaman can Single Bane + Epic DoT 2 mobs for 68 DPS while the group is churning through other mobs. With pet that puts them up to 84 DPS. If a group can chain pull that many mobs back to back, there are plenty to root/rot hehe. The mana cost for that would be 1050 mana, and a Shaman can get that back in roughly 70 seconds. The group can then finish the rooted mobs off as they get around to it, or let the Shaman continue to DPS independently and kill them that way. If you really wanted efficiency in a group, you wouldn't simply chain pull single mobs. You could kill multiple mobs at the same time instead, but a Mage can't really do that since they are basically a single target damage class.

I think ur erection for the shaman class has persisted for more than 4 hours. Time to call a doctor.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A mage is doing 56 (Pet) + 22 (Burnt Wood Staff) + 4 (DS) = 82 DPS on a single target if all they do is spam clickies in 30 second fights.

A Shaman is doing 26 (JBB) + 18 (Pet) = 44 DPS on a single target if all they do is spam clickies in 30 second fights.

I think you're heavily underestimating the damage of both the Mage pet and DS here, and the Mage is still nearly double the Shaman DPS. That really says it all, IMO.

If someone is able to perform the test I suggested in this post, I think it will be very apparent how much more DPS the Mage is actually doing.

Proposed test:

Originally Posted by Vexenu

If anyone wants to perform the Lord's work and make a video to shut DSM up: find a 55+ Paladin and a 60 Mage with focused water staff and Boots of Bladecalling. The Paladin equips a non-damage primary (no ripostes). The Mage casts DS on the Paladin and buffs pet. The Paladin pulls the seb golem and holds agro by spamming only blind and stun over and over (zero damage). The Mage attacks with backstabbing water pet and clickie nukes until the seb golem is dead (simulating his group DPS). The mob will be dead shockingly quickly and we'll all have a good laugh as DSM tries to find fault with the math.

[Karanis]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol looks like someone got angry and voted 14 times with a VPN[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Riiiight. That's what happened.



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[PlsNoBan]

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Taking bets on who the 2 votes for me are? I'd say there's like a 99.99% chance it's DSM and DSM's phone.

[PlsNoBan]

All data that disagrees with me is fake news

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All data that disagrees with me is fake news

At least you finally admit it! Thanks for being honest.