Game Mechanics: Mellee miss rate seems excessively high.

[eqdruid76]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll let you count up the misses.. level 50 warrior vs light blue Sand Giant...

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And what's your point? That a level 50 doesn't miss as much against a sand giant as a level 12 would?...

[President]

Originally Posted by eqdruid76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

News flash. Everyone playing on Project1999 is a tempermental baby.

And the problem with your logic is that it isn't just one player whining. It's pretty much every untwinked melee toon. Misses ARE out of line with live, for all classes. It's worse for pure melees, because they don't have spells to fire off when they get sick of whiffing 12 times in a row against greens.

Every untwinked toon? Really? I mean, I remember that when the server opened before they fixed them, but every untwinked toon? This forum would be flooded with people complaining.

Decaying skeleton is actually a good example. On live, when my druid was level 9, he could melee kill that particular mob in no more than 3 hits, sans damage shield. Here, it could take 20, using the same gear I had on live at the time (cloth armor drops and a jaggedpine crook). Conversely, on live, if I went /afk with a damage shield on, and said mob aggroed me, I could come back and it would still be whiffing. Whereas on P99, I can aggro every skellie in the zone and alt tab out refresh the forums, come back, and loot 10 corpses, who each connected with all of their hits and were destroyed by the DS.

I do believe that mobs hitting PC's is slightly off, but I don't care enough to go into it. Can you show me on P99 that a level 9 druid wouldn't be able to kill a decaying skele that quick? I'd bet it would.

Try to understand, not everyone has a faulty memory. Bugs have been posted regarding this issue several times, and I'm sure it's being looked at. It's just a huge pain in the ass for pure melees at this time. Especially warriors using 2 handers.

Did I say everyone has a faulty memory? Nope, I sure didn't. Did I say that the dev's are probably not going to waste a ton of time trying to overhaul a melee system that works *pretty darn well* due to a handful of peoples memory? Yes. It was a pain in the ass on live, and is a pain in the ass on P99.

Now, here's another question, specifically to Nilbog. Aren't weapons with longer delays coded to miss less? If not, what is the incentive to use one? Isn't the damage bonus moot if the attack doesn't land?

It's been posted elsewhere, but I believe on live 2h damage was "fixed" until Kunark or Velious. Though, I can't say the devs have implemented or planned on this.

[President]

Originally Posted by eqdruid76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And what's your point? That a level 50 doesn't miss as much against a sand giant as a level 12 would?...

It was In response to this...

Spawn a level 1 decaying skeleton with 5000 hp and let a pure melee level 50 char with no buffs or stat boosting gear (cloth armor and rusty weapons) fight it just to count the hits/misses. and only level 1 skills allowed. No dual weild, no double attack, no level 50 kick, riposte, bash, disarm, ect... That alone should prove my point. The skeleton will hit way too often, and the player will probably miss often enough to get killed. Yeah, I know the fight will take forever, but that will give you plenty of time to generate an accurate hit/miss ratio. Im sure we can all agree that the miss rate for the level 50 attacking the level 1 should be 5% or less, and the skelly trying to hit the level 50, should be missing atleast 95% of the time.

Reading the thread generally helps, though I know his gibberish is tough to get through.

[YendorLootmonkey]

President... were your screenshots using 1H weapons or 2H weapons? If it was using 1H weapons, could you try using a 2H weapon? Maybe it's just one damage table that's broke. I dunno... just throwing ideas out there since 1HS seems fine to me.

Maybe if I can find an old-school parser, I'll do some parsing on Friday with Morn against some different level shit to see if there's any huge difference between 1HS and 2HS.

[dali_lb]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but classical melee was always this way.

There is absolutely none of the posted SS's that show any hit ratio that seems out of proportions.

When EQ went live, Warriors was the most horrible class, Pallies was somewhat better but still poo. Rangers was only melee that was able to solo decent.

Also Keep in mind that 2H has a considerably higher miss rate because of its often better dps than 1H.

So yes, you can at lvl 12 fighting a lvl 5 with a 2h. get several misses in a row even your skills is maxed, and then roll a low 2-3dmg hit and then roll a crit and hit for 6. Your not supposed to be guarantied 3 crits of 48 dmg in a row just because you fight a considerably lower lvl mob.

Those things only happen in WoW.

[Omnimorph]

As a 47 enchanter with fairly decent skill in 1hb, i recall being able to kill decaying skellies like mentioned in 3 or 4 hits. I do miss alot more on this server than i remember.

But then i'm not that concerned that i can't melee to death a greenie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jify]

Wow... I miss a lot more than that on my bard.

Nerf warriors!

[dali_lb]

Then move on to eg caster NPC's.

The system in EQ was always the way that "caster mobs" "cheated", cause they hit (melee) like a melee npc. they have the same hp as a melee npc and they on to that nuke the shit out of you.

Buhuuu ... everyone whined about that also on live, even the npc casters there usually didn't use the highest lvl spells that theoretically were available for them, wich made caster npc's relative easy for classes like mages, necroes, druids, wizards that could keep them away from melee range and just nuke them, cause the PC usually nuked for considerably higher dmg than the npc, with the exception of healer npc's that always was a challenge.

Melee sure aint the part that has issues. There's more issues in that npc's on every EMU server resist magic a bit too well, and the casters use the highest available spells for them, wich makes caster NPC's a real challenge here.

The fact is, EQ was designed this way. Live with it or don't play

[Morndenkainen]

President, I hate to point this out to you, but you missed a whopping 0 times in there.. out of 103 attacks, only 19 did full damage (under the assumption your full dmg is 29/hit and 18/kick). Thats normal for live, because the mob is 7 levels below you. The point is, you too are fighting a light blue mob, and have an exeptionally high hit rate. Yes, you can TRY and claim there's is a skill difference between a level 12 and a level 50, but the reality is that your skills still exceede the sand giants defensive skills by a mere 30-35 points... (Assuming your 6-7 levels higher) YES, You ABSOLOUTLY, should still be missing occasionally. You should be missing the same amount that I am. You arent... Face it, Combat is not right yet. At this point its looking like the game is going off of the attack skills of the player alone, rather than the attack skills of the player, minus the defenses of the mob which it did in live.

As to your claim that every player would be flooding the forums with complaints? No, not really, a fair number of them probably still feel like a forum is too big a maze to navigate.. Face it, you've probably got 50 people in the whole system out of what, 750-1000 now? that contribute to 90% of the forum content. I highly doubt every untwinked noob with a keyboard would end up here complaining.

Omnimorph, Thats exactly my point, at level 47, with decent skill in 1h bash, you should not be missing, you wouldnt have on live. Well, once maybe, but it shouldnt take 3-4 swings to kill a level 1 mob at level 47.. How would you feel if that level 1, with a larger number of hps was still able to melee you to death if you didnt use any magic at your current level?

Dali, 1. its not an issue of 1h weapons vs 2h weapons, I've tried it with both, and im still getting obscene miss rates with 1h weapons. 2. please keep this to the topic. 3. This is NOT on par with classical EQ, because on classical EQ, I was able to solo into my 20's. 4. This isnt wow, please dont try to compare the two as the combat systems are completely different.

[km2783]

Originally Posted by Ruinous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've noticed that the maximum damage that all classes seem to be doing at these levels is simply their weapon damage x 2. 5dmg 30dly weapon hits for 10, 6dmg 32dly weapon hits for 12, etc. This is constant for all classes regardless of STR. A caster with a pathetic STR of 60 is doing the same as a melee class with 40-50 more STR. There's something amiss here people!

Strength doesn't come into play until lvl 20 iirc.

until lvl 20 the most you will hit with ANY weapon is 29. I believe there is a cap until 10 or so that limits it to 18-20.

This could also have something to do with what we're seeing here. Is strength not doing anything to add to people's attack rating? is it possible that strength is supposed to add to attack rating until 20, when it also adds additional damage? i'm not entirely sure how the combat mechanic works with strength, ie if it ever does both, or if by increasing attack rating it by default adds damage due to the higher attack number.