MOTD: Consider rolling red

[mwatt]

To the OP:

The "added complexity" of PVP in EQ does not enhance the game, it alters it radically -and not in a good way if Fantasy MMORPG is what turns your gears. When you must engage another player, the entirety of what EQ is, aside from your class attributes, falls to the way side. You might as well be playing a shitty version of Quake.

The fact that on someone else's whim, you must instantly play an entirely different game, makes acheiving many PVE goals difficult and annoying. If one enjoys PVE more than PVP, why would one want to allow that to be forcibly halted for PVP?

If one enjoys PVP more than PVE, why would one want to play EQ for their PVP experience? There are other, better suited, more popular games for PVP.

If one is in the middle, and enjoys both PVE and PVP, why would one wish to experience a compromised version of either type of play?

If PVP were electable, that would be better. But wait... it IS electable on the blue server. Funny, hardly anyone ever does. I dont' see many red names and I dont see many players in PVP areas on the blue server. I didn't see many before there was a red server either. To me these facts just reinforce my assertion thats that most people either lean one way of the other, and those that don't experience two "half loaves" from one game, instead of playing two different games and getting the "full loaf" from each.

[Haul]

Originally Posted by Destan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Recently joined, started my first character on p99 Red with a buddy. After two days of not seeing another human being we decided it wasn't worth it. If I wanted a two-player emu with nothing but empty zones I'd have started one myself...

+1

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To the OP:

The "added complexity" of PVP in EQ does not enhance the game, it alters it radically -and not in a good way if Fantasy MMORPG is what turns your gears. When you must engage another player, the entirety of what EQ is, aside from your class attributes, falls to the way side. You might as well be playing a shitty version of Quake.

That's cool, but it's an opinion...and those of us who enjoy EQ PvP are at the other end of the spectrum. Not all of us are knuckle-dragging buffoons, either.

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that on someone else's whim, you must instantly play an entirely different game, makes acheiving many PVE goals difficult and annoying. If one enjoys PVE more than PVP, why would one want to allow that to be forcibly halted for PVP?

That's what makes the PvE goals so much more rewarding. It's not a crime to enjoy both PvE AND PvP...I know I do. There's little in the way of strategy when it comes to EQ PvE...I mean, what don't you already know? Throw in the human element and it's a whole different story.

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If one enjoys PVP more than PVE, why would one want to play EQ for their PVP experience? There are other, better suited, more popular games for PVP.

And none of them are EQ. We're all here because we enjoy the game...we on red are reaching out again because a lot of the red act has been cleaned up thanks to the hard work of the server guides and devs...we're simply asking those that may have an interest in a clean red experience to try it again.

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If one is in the middle, and enjoys both PVE and PVP, why would one wish to experience a compromised version of either type of play?

Blue PvE is already compromised. A crapload of content is denied to the average player on blue...most blue players will never see VP. A much larger percentage of red players will see much more content, especially when the content can be directly contested. No squabbling, no poopsocking, and no batphones. We KNOW when the content is up, and it takes both skill and strategy to win in group PvP (and - btw - THAT is where EQ PvP shines. In solo EQ PvP is imbalanced and impracticable. Group PvP is the sweet cherry in EQ.)

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If PVP were electable, that would be better. But wait... it IS electable on the blue server. Funny, hardly anyone ever does. I dont' see many red names and I dont see many players in PVP areas on the blue server. I didn't see many before there was a red server either. To me these facts just reinforce my assertion thats that most people either lean one way of the other, and those that don't experience two "half loaves" from one game, instead of playing two different games and getting the "full loaf" from each.

Servers were dedicated to PvP in original EQ because there was a market for it, and they did quite well. Rallos, Tallon, Vallon, and Sullon all did well until general interest in EQ itself waned.

You do get the "full loaf" of PvE on red. You just have to fight for it, and everything gained is a battle...not a 12-year old strategy that anyone can look up on the web. The dynamics of PvE are completely altered, and in such a way that gaining that Cloak of Flames (for example) means so much more than it ever could on a PvE server.

There were lots of people that sampled red and had problems with it. A lot of those problems have been fixed...we're just asking that if you thought you might like it and tried it...try it again. The best argument I can give is a direct quote from one of your fellow blues, in a completely unrelated thread.

Originally Posted by username1337 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a fan of The Big Bang Theory, I found the episode where Penny got addicted to Age of Conan to be especially insightful. Particularly this line:

Leonard: Well, i-i-i-it’s just if a person doesn’t have a sense of achievement in their real life it’s easy to lose themselves in a virtual world where they get a false sense of accomplishment.

It's not hard to see the sad state of surrogate accomplishment for P1999 players -- look no further than the wiki to find that people on this server tout "server firsts" for nearly everything as if it were an accomplishment. Since experience in this game is acquired by mindlessly pushing the same buttons over and over then levels are essentially the sum of committing a lot of time and surviving long hours of boredom (often by creating drama). Epics have a step by step guide with strategies attached - how is acquiring one an accomplishment? It doesn't require thought - just time, luck, and following instructions. In many cases it also involves sucking up to a guild leader and doing the bitch work for them like tracking mobs (again, only a time investment, no skill involved in hitting the track button). Then the people willing to wake up at 5am before work (if they even work) in order to kill a raid boss is damn near the pinnacle of patheticism. In truth, however, the sadness peaks when you see members of high-end guilds sit AFK in EC thinking everybody will see his 1337 gear and think he is awesome. It's really sad...

The drama and problems on this server is because most of the server is full of these hardcores who, after returning to a 13 year old emulated MMORPG, have no other means of obtaining a sense of accomplishment but "winning" at pixels here. On P1999, winning is generally defined as having better gear than everybody else. Since supply of gear is low without instances and content is trivial with 100's of guides of how to win, success is obtained here by playing long hours and participating in guild politics as alluded above. In other words, drama IS PART of the competition aspect of the game. Whether it be creating entertainment for social acceptance, driving other players to breaking the arbitrary server-imposed rules, cultivating amicable relationships with GMs as to leverage the lack of formal rulings on rule violations, or inciting conflict between players as to avoid them creating an alliance -- this game and ruleset is designed such that players succeed by socially and emotionally manipulating others. This is the real challenge on P1999.

In short, P1999 is designed for drama and sad lowlifes. Better to just accept it and move on and let them revel in their depravity.

[jbs89]

If you die during PvE it's not much different than PvP is it? They have an exp boost too.

To above: cloak dropped off Nagafen yesterday

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[Witness]

As a new player on red let me sum up my less then 1 week experience. Started out in Freeport and 2 holo were killing guards, they buffed me gave me some bronze and some plat and i quickly got to level 5, then i soloed to level 10 and went to unrest, found some nihilum druid there pling someone on the right side, he buffed me and told me to move to the left side and would keep me buffed. Got to level 12. Then some people level 15-17 came in and let me join them. Xp flows fast and im now 21. There's nearly always someone to group with in unrest. I also wanted to mention I had good runins with founding fathrrs as well. i have enjoyed the server so far and will continue leveling.

[kazroth]

Great post, Humerox, and good news, Witness. Will see you online.

[mwatt]

@Humerox

You made a show of addressing my comments on a point by point basis. Unfortunately, you discourse like a politician. When you answer a question or address a point you answer only as much of it as is convenient then you use the rest of your answer to talk about what you want to talk about.

I am not going to rebut other than to say I stand behind what I already said. I don't hold out any hope of influencing you though - not sure why I bother. Your ilk does not see the beauty in the original game. What you are doing on Red is an abomination IMO. But to each their own I suppose. I'd just as soon keep red posts out of the blue areas however. It's annoying.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@Humerox

You made a show of addressing my comments on a point by point basis. Unfortunately, you discourse like a politician. When you answer a question or address a point you answer only as much of it as is convenient then you use the rest of your answer to talk about what you want to talk about.

I am not going to rebut other than to say I stand behind what I already said. I don't hold out any hope of influencing you though - not sure why I bother. Your ilk does not see the beauty in the original game. What you are doing on Red is an abomination IMO. But to each their own I suppose. I'd just as soon keep red posts out of the blue areas however. It's annoying.

My ilk? I played just about from server up on P99 and was an original member of Divinity. Still am afaik...I haven't logged on in a while...but my reputation on blue was impeccable...save a little trolling I did (on a forum alt) early on in the server timeline against DA. Which, btw...is the point I consider that what I loved about EQ on P99 was being lost, but that's another story.

I get it that you don't like PvP in EQ...that's OK. This post is directed at people that are on the fence, frustrated at the dramafest in the raid scene, and uninformed about the changes on red lately. We've had some results, which is cool.

I'm sorry you're annoyed.

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[mwatt]

Previous comments aside I do respect the tenor and rationality of your writing. You do not spin out into emotional tirade and name calling when someone presents an opposing point of view. Instead you take the high ground, something that I usually pride myself on but you have gone me one better in these exchanges I think.

In short, though I don't agree with all that you say, you at least say it in an adult fashion - something that in my observation is not so common among PVP advocates. I stand corrected on my "ilk" remark. I was stereo-typing you and I was wrong.

If there were more folks like you on the Red server, it would have a much higher population IMO. However, as you have surmised, you still wouldn't find me there. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Finally, PVP promotion in the Blue forums does in fact annoy me, but perhaps that isn't fair. When someone like you posts rationally and thoughtfully (and this is rare), it is more palatable.

[kazroth]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If there were more folks like you on the Red server, it would have a much higher population IMO.

Not to toot my own horn, but I'm logging in as we speak. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]