Comparison of melee hybrid classes.

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Palemoon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He means that eventually when resists got very high, one of the things Verant did to help out casters was make all of the resist debuff type spells (malo/tash/etc) debuff for 50 percent more in pvp.

It helped somewhat, and I imagine debuffs here will evolve that way too (if it follows "classic" )

Ahh that wasn't clear to me.

[Graym]

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While you are prolly right about VZTZ, you are having some serious illusions of grander for rangers in Kunark and velious. I too played a ranger but I Know half the shit your saying is bullshit.

You said if someone dispelled your sow you would just run away. How did you do that without sow? Chances are you relied on sow while others had Jboots and they would never let you run away.

Ranger pushback from weapons made rangers able to stop casters casting? If that were true, war, rogue and monk all would be better at this then a ranger. What stopped casters from casting was bash. You were lucky in live to even touch a good caster let alone just have him stand there while he tried to cast on you. That's why you use 2h Most of the time unless your target is snared, so when you do get that second and a half to hit the caster , your doing the most damage. A caster will run run run until he has the advantage to cast on you because he hillbugged or turned the corner over the hill or something.

You really don't remember resists ? 100 mr makes 8/10 snares resist. That was a fact.

Necromancers getting owned by rangers? You act like the ranger is gonna land all his snares and the necro won't.

Some serious memory lapse issues or you just dont know much about why you owned noobs that couldn't play their class right.

You obviously did not play on a PVP server back in the day, or you were one of those players who always got killed because they sucked yet want to blame it on the class. First off, EVERYONE worth a shit in PVP had Jboots, including Rangers. If you debuffed a Ranger's SoW, Jboots went up.

Secondly, 100 MR was not 8 in 10 resists, it was more like 99%. The resist rate was high enough that for specific classes that NEEDED their mana to kill people, like casters, they couldn't try to spam snare spells because the risk vs reward ratio was just not worth it. Rangers were different because unlike Necromancers and Druids that rely on mana to kill people, Rangers didn't rely on their mana for kills. Recasting a SoW is irrelevant to a Ranger and it's easy to get back on *IF* somebody was able to get it off.

Yes, anyone could use a potion but who is in the best position to keep their SoW on? The Ranger with 397427997342 useless buffs to throw it 15 deep, or other classes with only 1-5 buffs to protect it. All of those worthless buffs Rangers had were worthless on normal servers, but on PVP servers it meant Rangers could completely protect their most important buffs with TONS of protection at the top. Other classes could not do that self-buffed. Without resorting to egg-shaped Pumices, the Ranger would almost always win that debuffing battle and under normal circumstances, always had the speed advantage in every fight. If someone actually did get the Rangers SoW off first, then you can simply put on Jboots and run around until you lose your opponent or create enough space to recast SoW, which wasn't that hard to do.

[Graym]

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is impossible to dispell against a competent prepared player unless you're gonna wand it off.

Moron.

This is yet another person who obviously did not play on a PVP server and it's completely false for two reasons.

1) Dispells could be resisted. The way the spell worked was it would check against the top spell on the list BUT if that spell resisted, it would check the next spell down. The resist rate was low, but it was possible to cast a dispell on someone and instead of it taking the top spell it could also bypass the junk buffs on top and take off a spell in the middle or on the bottom. Trust me, I remember being EXTREMELY annoyed when that shit would happen. The difference being that a Magician recasting a damage shield, if he can get it off without interruption which is no guarantee, costs WAY MORE MANA then a Ranger recasting his buffs, especially SoW.

Most quality players always kept the top spots empty so that they could dispell DoTs when they landed. Some good players even knew this so they would first cast a shitty DoT THEN their good DoT to try to get it underneath all the buffs. With a low cast time on dispell, it was nearly impossible to defend all your buffs with everything going on. For example, I could snare/DoT the pet so that every DoT tick the Pet would run towards me. The Mage either needs to dispell that DoT taking up time where he is not focused on defending his buffs, or pay 100% attention to his pet because if the pet got out of range of his orders to stay back, it would continue following me anywhere in the zone and I could kill it. A good Magician would recast the pet and send their old pet away when I was gone, but then you're losing a significant amount of mana recasting the new pet. Or, chain casting dispells you could simply catch the Magician in the middle of a long casting spell and he can't get his junk buffs up in time before the 2nd dispell lands.

It was basically impossible to do what you are claiming and you're forgetting the most important part.

2) Everyone worth a shit had egg-shaped Pumices. Instant cast dispells that were rechargable on the server. Let's say you were one of the ~5% competent Magicians that managed to do all of the multi-tasking required of a Magician and still got lucky and could keep the damage shield up, I could still take it off instantly with an egg-shaped Pumice and there was nothing you could do about it. Whenever I fought a Magician inside of a dungeon, I always used egg-shaped Pumices on damage shields because with how fast I hit, I would die to them. An egg-shaped Pumice on the damage shield, then stick to the Magician like glue, he'll never be able to recast it before dying.

I even had players on Vallon Zek chain cast egg-shaped pumices on me solely to remove my Jboots for the .2 seconds before I reclicked it so they could slightly catch up and try to get in a hit in. Slamz did that shit all the time to me.

Put egg-shaped pumices on the PVP server and allow them to be recharged just like how it was on the old Zeks and we'll see how well you can keep your damage shield up. Basically, it's impossible.

[Graym]

With the interrupt rate that was in the game at the time, it was nearly impossible for someone to get off a spell when I was hitting them. In Kunark my Ranger had 90% self-buffed haste on Vallon Zek. Think about it for a second, 90% self-buffed haste with ridiculously fast weapons. If I was on you, you did not get a cast off, period. It was very rare for someone to be able to channel a spell and only if I got to them right near the end of it. The channeling rate was nearly 0% if I was hitting you at or near the start of your casting. Any good caster on Vallon Zek, If I got to them in the middle of a cast they would immediately break their cast and run. NOBODY ever tried to channel casts, and if they did, they usually died very quickly. It was a losing strategy. The interrupt rate on melee was very high.

Again, reputation from Rangers on normal servers affected people's decisions to play Rangers on the PVP servers but certain spells that were USELESS on a normal server, were extremely useful on PVP servers. The amount of useless buffs Rangers had meant they could stack all of the important buffs deep and they had tons of pvp utility. A lot of their spells were lesser versions of other classes but a lot of those spells had a lot of PVP utility. For example, cure poison is useless on a normal server, but it meant a Ranger could always immediately remove tash when it was cast on him unlike the vast majority of other classes. Rangers had low resist rate, low damage DoTs which are useless on normal servers, but meant a Ranger could cast it on himself to break mez and cast it on Pets to repeatedly try to pull them away. In Jousting, Rangers had a Regen buff which was huge. Look how much of an advantage Troll Warriors had in PVP simply because of their racial regen bonus. You guys had a very skewed reality of Rangers when in Kunark they were easily the top PVP class. I'd only put Shadowknights ahead of them in Velious.

[Galacticus]

I assume you are not trolling because your posts are so long.

You aren't grasping the idea that we are talking about classic and Kunark. I bet you didn't even get to 50 before Kunark came out.

Some of what you say is true but wouldn't be for this server. Everyone having jboots is going to take months after the server starts.

I have killed alot of rangers as well as played one to 65 and rolled with alot of them. They are way more powerful in velious and are the powerhouse you somewhat describe but this server won't release as velious or even Kunark.

[Galacticus]

Go look at the wiki for the fastest ranger 1h weapons you can get before 50 and explain how those are so fast u can stop casters with mega pushback...

[Graym]

Because the interrupt rate was very high per hit against high level spells. There was not a flat rate on interrupting a spell with melee. The formula took into account the skill level of the spell being cast and the channeling level of the player and another factor was the location at the start and finish of the spell. That's why melee classes with little to no channeling spell easily got interrupted when casting Crystallized Pumice. Usually just one hit would interrupt a Warrior using a Crystallized Pumice, another huge advantage hybrids had.

The higher the skill level of the spell being cast, the better the chance of interrupt was. That's why casters who would cast Gate could sometimes channel through 15 hits and still get the spell off on occasion, but get hit just 5-7 times and interrupt nearly 100% of their highest level spells. Nobody worth their shit in PVP ever tried to channel spells through fast melee because the vast majority of the time it led to an interrupt and heavy damage taken by the caster. Just a few hits against a high level nuke and it was all that was needed to interrupt it so in some cases the interrupt rate per hit was EASILY over 15% per hit.

[Ravenlof]

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I assume you are not trolling because your posts are so long.

You aren't grasping the idea that we are talking about classic and Kunark. I bet you didn't even get to 50 before Kunark came out.

Some of what you say is true but wouldn't be for this server. Everyone having jboots is going to take months after the server starts.

I have killed alot of rangers as well as played one to 65 and rolled with alot of them. They are way more powerful in velious and are the powerhouse you somewhat describe but this server won't release as velious or even Kunark.

agreed

[Humerox]

only the most masochistic, the hardcore of hardcore, the quintessential underdogs, will be playing Rangers.

like me.

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[Palemoon]

Originally Posted by Graym [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The higher the skill level of the spell being cast, the better the chance of interrupt was. That's why casters who would cast Gate could sometimes channel through 15 hits and still get the spell off on occasion, but get hit just 5-7 times and interrupt nearly 100% of their highest level spells. Nobody worth their shit in PVP ever tried to channel spells through fast melee because the vast majority of the time it led to an interrupt and heavy damage taken by the caster. Just a few hits against a high level nuke and it was all that was needed to interrupt it so in some cases the interrupt rate per hit was EASILY over 15% per hit.

There is no way this is right.