Poll: Should the Management have been harsher with the 365 cheaters?

[superapan]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole. This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating. This is very basic in law theory (the indirect deterrence). Like if there was no risk of punishment involved in speeding, you'd do it all the time. This is no longer the case, and your average Joe will keep to the speed limits.

Appreciate the fact that the server will now be completely legit, which EQ Live never ever was. And then you move on.

[RandySlopeJr]

Originally Posted by superapan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole. This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating. This is very basic in law theory (the indirect deterrence). Like if there was no risk of punishment involved in speeding, you'd do it all the time. This is no longer the case, and your average Joe will keep to the speed limits.

Appreciate the fact that the server will now be completely legit, which EQ Live never ever was. And then you move on.

you kidding me????Live was ten times more legit then this server is. Did you have GMs pulling this crap in live? NO

[TR Spokesman]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

me sending that little message to nilbog months ago has nothing to do with my statement. and btw, how did that turn out? i seem to recall quite a few people who called me a dumbass for it doing a complete 180 and saying it had some merit (im assuming this has to do with your shitty 4 day window that now looks rather fucking retarded doesn't it?). maybe now that you guys see just how many SEQers there were we can see a bit more credibility in my previous statements. and how about you getting pissy when i actually tried to get nilbog to clear up my situation for me? i seem to recall you getting all whiny when i tried to step over you to get some clarity. how'd that shit turn out? oh? i didn't? gtfo... really? you telling me i'm a whiner can best be described as

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

me calling you a wuss has to do with your tough talk in player-to-player disputes but when it comes to disputes between two guilds you're unwilling to take the same approach. like i said, you pussy out. i knew that this was likely a staff-wide decision that you either had a say in or it was the two up top. doesn't have anything to do with your approach to disputes but rather an incredibly shitty decision in the first place. you being a pussy is in response to the people who claim that they admittedly get a little frightened of even petitioning a camp dispute because you squash any disputes with an iron fist -- and you do. my point was that you back away when it comes to guild disputes. which you do. you wanna call me a whiner then go for it, but i've never and will never bend over backwards for anybody because of a bolded title and most certainly not for you. you're not the first, either. you've dicked me over before and i've seen the way you do shit so let's cut the BS. you're a pussy when it comes to raid disputes and fail to hit them where it hurts. even after multiple incidents you still don't mind showing up and still don't treat them like you treat player disputes. That's why i call you a pussy. This decision, or rather half-ass decision when it comes the massive cheating would have been staff-wide and overturned by the big two or not a call of yours in the first place. but it still smells like you

Uth has his hands tied in a good amount of situations. You do realize there are things he can and can't do, and thus has to get permission from rogean/nilbog.

Basically Uthgaard needs to watch his own back, because in the end? who is gonna stick up for him if his head is on the chopping block?


Personally I would. Dude is pretty solid.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by TR Spokesman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uth has his hands tied in a good amount of situations. You do realize there are things he can and can't do, and thus has to get permission from rogean/nilbog.

Basically Uthgaard needs to watch his own back, because in the end? who is gonna stick up for him if his head is on the chopping block?


Personally I would. Dude is pretty solid.

so you're saying that tough talk of "we don't care about any guilds on this server" was essentially all 3 of them bullshitting? because considering recent fiascos i'm almost inclined to agree with you.

I defended uth (crazy, inorite) when it came to claims of favoritism, but that doesn't mean i don't think he's a pussy. instead of backing the tough talk and enforcing the "screw you, i don't care" attitude he's developed, he instead decides to chicken out.

[mwatt]

Guys, the reason why 2 boxing is an insta-perma ban but the recently disclosed rule breaking was not, is a simple matter of practicality. Banning the occasional two boxer has little or no impact on the overall server "health". Banning 365 players might well affect the server health.

The powers that be don't want to cut of their own noses to spite their faces. They decided to take the middle route in this case - which is completely up to them and probably the correct decision. Everyone should stop trying to second-guess and back-seat drive. This sort of thing is only promoting unrest - and I'm not talking about a zone with a haunted mansion in it.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by superapan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole.

This is true.

Originally Posted by superapan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

Except that the cheating was confirmed, and a more substantive assertion would be that allowing the cheaters to return relatively unscathed would be more harmful than anything else.

It's wrong to redirect fault in this to the community. The focus needs to stay on the cheaters, where it belongs.

Originally Posted by superapan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating.

Don't even know where this came from, bro, because you're dead wrong. If in no risk of punishment you meant they couldn't be caught, well...wrong on both counts.

Except in the case of raid guilds, maybe. But I'm not delving into server politics on that one, except to mention that the devs were obviously as shocked and overwhelmed as the rest of us were in regards to the scope of the cheating. I'd also expect some sort of response to the massive backlash their decision on "punishment" has created.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Guys, the reason why 2 boxing is an insta-perma ban but the recently disclosed rule breaking was not, is a simple matter of practicality. Banning the occasional two boxer has little or no impact on the overall server "health". Banning 365 players might well affect the server health.

The powers that be don't want to cut of their own noses to spite their faces. They decided to take the middle route in this case - which is completely up to them and probably the correct decision. Everyone should stop trying to second-guess and back-seat drive. This sort of thing is only promoting unrest - and I'm not talking about a zone with a haunted mansion in it.

One thing that you guys aren't taking into consideration is a developer (might have been Rogean might have not been him) GAVE HINTS he was implementing antihack and they didn't change their ways. Read the PvP boards for when Rogean started talking about it (Salty's locked thread).

365 accounts - how many people had 2 or 3 accounts that were hacking? Probably quite a few. It's not 365 people, probalby somewhere around 150-200.

[visage]

Originally Posted by TR Spokesman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uth has his hands tied in a good amount of situations. You do realize there are things he can and can't do, and thus has to get permission from rogean/nilbog.Basically Uthgaard needs to watch his own back, because in the end? who is gonna stick up for him if his head is on the chopping block?
Personally I would. Dude is pretty solid.

Exactly. If your angry about the situation at hand and thing it's unjust. Rather than call out the middle man. Please take it to the Big wigs AKA Nilborg and Rogean. These are the people that are in charge. Therefore rather than take such statements out on Uthgaard a lower end person. Take it to the for front and be smart about it. If your supervisor won't enforce a issue at your work... Do you keep blaming him , or do you stand up on your own two feet and go to the next chain of command? Stop blaming Uthgaard. It does what it's told... Much like it puts the lotion on the skin... Or get's the hose again....

[druziil]

Originally Posted by superapan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real punishment is on the community as a whole. This McCarthyism has a good chance of permanently ruining this place.

In the case of P1999, using MQ meant no risk of punishment, and thus there was no threat to deter people from cheating. This is very basic in law theory (the indirect deterrence). Like if there was no risk of punishment involved in speeding, you'd do it all the time. This is no longer the case, and your average Joe will keep to the speed limits.

Appreciate the fact that the server will now be completely legit, which EQ Live never ever was. And then you move on.

If you need a deterant to keep you from doing wrong, then you are a piece of shit. Everyone here knows what is right and wrong and also knows there are consequences. I speed and roll through stop signs all the time, and if i ever got pulled over i would accept the fines/points. These people were well informed of the rules and knew they were doing wrong. They also knew the punishment was a ban. If anything this situation will be less of a deterant, because it shows the impotence of the staff to back up their words with action.

Also I don't apriciate the fact that the server will be legit because that fact is wrong. These hackers benefited by using those hacks more then they were hurt from the punishment so the net result is still in their favor. Unless that changes then this server can never be legit.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by visage [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. If your angry about the situation at hand and thing it's unjust. Rather than call out the middle man. Please take it to the Big wigs AKA Nilborg and Rogean. These are the people that are in charge. Therefore rather than take such statements out on Uthgaard a lower end person. Take it to the for front and be smart about it. If your supervisor won't enforce a issue at your work... Do you keep blaming him , or do you stand up on your own two feet and go to the next chain of command? Stop blaming Uthgaard. It does what it's told... Much like it puts the lotion on the skin... Or get's the hose again....

there's a couple guides and probably a couple old GMs that would disagree with you